#dev 2018-05-12

2018-05-12 UTC
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loqi.me created /recommended_users (+26) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /who_to_follow (+66) "AKA PEOPLE TO FOLLOW or Recommended users" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reader (+121) "indie readers are now effectively social readers, upgrading dfn accordingly" (view diff)
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@fionajvoss ↩️ Testing webmentions from twitter (twitter.com/_/status/995169608008065026)
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tantek.com edited /feed_reader (+308) "AKA RSS reader, make dfn a bit more readable, old to shutdowns section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reader (+10) "one-way" (view diff)
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@fionajvoss ↩️ Testing webmentions from Twitter (twitter.com/_/status/995173495729405954)
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@trendmatcher ↩️ @EwoutWolff @marcoderksen @frankmeeuwsen Nooit aan gedacht dat webmentions ook nog een rol zouden kunnen spelen #GDPR (twitter.com/_/status/995228928821399552)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /feed_reader (-2) "/* Examples */ woodwind not hosted anymore" (view diff)
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@pstuifzand I just created a Microsub client for the command line. Find it at https://github.com/pstuifzand/microsub-server #indieweb #microsub https://p83.nl/p/657 (twitter.com/_/status/995276533563617280)
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jgmac1106 Some newbie questions: Is there a Microformat stylesheet you need to link to on a website? If I style any of the microformat classes on my stylesheet does anything break.
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@pstuifzand One of the coolest features of the command line client is the feed preview. The microsub server supports a few formats, which I can now preview on the command line #microsub #indieweb https://p83.nl/p/658 (twitter.com/_/status/995286893297324033)
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Zegnat I don’t think I understand the question, jgmac1106. But there is no “Microformat stylesheet”.
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Zegnat But styling on microformats classes can sometimes be iffy, because you might want to nest the classes differently in the future and then have to redo your CSS again
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jgmac1106 okay, was thinking like with fontawesome or bootstrap or other things.
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jgmac1106 I would assume leave them alone but just wanted to be sure
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jgmac1106 setting up this project by just having people add an html page from five different templates. Would using h-entry is this case be wrong? They will be static but I guess folks could add them to feeds
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Zegnat h-entry is never wrong, if it wraps something that is an item/entry/article/... No feed required
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jgmac1106 okay noticing the /article/ if you switch that is that like a Post-Kind? WordPress my only reference
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jgmac1106 <p class="vcard"><a class="url" href="#">Open Science Space (name pending)</a> is a place to share our successes in <div class="org">#OpenScience</div>.</p> that look right?
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jgmac1106 morning [wiobyrne] happy birthday
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] that is the h-card for the home page, haven’t built template for bio pages yet, whihc will have h-card for each person
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Zegnat That looks right if you want to use pre-2015 microformats1 ... you probably want to use h-card instead ;)
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Zegnat What is h-card?
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Loqi h-card is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up people, organizations, and venues on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-card
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Zegnat https://indieweb.org/h-card#How - has some example classes
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jgmac1106 so is the indieweb wiki more current than the microformats wiki?
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jgmac1106 I thought it looked wrong but I was just following the guide
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Zegnat Shouldn’t be, but it is usually a little more straight forward
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sknebel the microformats wiki has all those too
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Zegnat Do you remember what guide you were using on the microformats wiki?
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jgmac1106 I think what happened is I copied from a linked example from microformats wiki that wasn’t updates
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Zegnat http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Example - are examples on mf wiki
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Zegnat But you ended up doing mf1 code, so I wonder how you ended up there, because that might need fixing then
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jgmac1106 I used this: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring
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Loqi hCard authoring tips
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Zegnat Yes, that page isn’t uptodate
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Zegnat Or rather, is about the old hCard standard
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sknebel should maybe add a reference to h-card to the top of that page too, similar as it is on /hcard
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jgmac1106 okay going to use this: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2
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jgmac1106 [skenbel] getting the get started page on microformats2 as robust as microformat2 gettign stated page could be a good goal for a less technical contributor
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jgmac1106 <p class="h-card"><a class="u-url" href="#">Open Science Space (name pending)</a> is a place to share our successes in <span class="p-org">#OpenScience</span.</p>
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jgmac1106 but who ever added box quickly that was smart
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[kevinmarks] Put p-name with the u-url too
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[stefp] I’m getting this error when I try to post to a new Known installation from OwnYourGram. Can anyone help?
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[stefp] HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
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[stefp] Cache-Control: private, no-cache, no-store, must-revalidate, max-age=0
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[stefp] Pragma: no-cache
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[stefp] Content-Type: text/html
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[stefp] Content-Length: 1139
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[stefp] Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 13:48:10 GMT
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[stefp] Accept-Ranges: bytes
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[stefp] Server: LiteSpeed
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[stefp] Alt-Svc: quic=“:443”; ma=2592000; v=“35,37,38,39"
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[stefp] Connection: Keep-Alive
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@frankmeeuwsen ↩️ Inmiddels staat deel 3 online, met een diepe uitleg over webmentions en hoe ik dat relateer aan de AVG. Waarschuwing: het kan je gaan duizelen met de uitleg van webmentions! http://diggingthedigital.com/GDPR-en-het-Indieweb-deel-3-Webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/995313324291223553)
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Zegnat [stefp], the fact it is a Forbidden makes it sound like OwnYourGram does not have a correct token to actually post to Known
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[stefp] Thanks. I was wondering if there was a problem with my new hosting company. Known and OYG worked fine on my previous host.
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jgmac1106 based on this: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-resumecan I make up “optional properties” since there are some fields I would need for academics like p-publication p-grant
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jgmac1106 [stefp] probably unrelated but I have been having issues with image uploads from MicroPub services
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jgmac1106 http://microformats.org/wiki/h-resume
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Zegnat [stefp], maybe? Some servers may drop authorization headers, I do not know how OYG & Known are handling that
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Zegnat jgmac1106, I am personally a great fan off playing with adding extra properties to test that out
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aaronpk Yea my guess is the host is removing the header. There's an htaccess thing you can add to bring it back
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jgmac1106 yeah vita just slightly different then resume
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Zegnat You can always add proposed ones, jgmac1106: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-resume#Property_Details
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Zegnat Or look at some of the other pages, many have sections for experimental properties.
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jgmac1106 looking at this now: http://csarven.ca/cv
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aaronpk [stefp]: try this https://stackoverflow.com/a/26791450
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[stefp] Still doesn’t work. I wonder if it’s something else.
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[stefp] Access to this resource on the server is denied!
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[stefp] Photos post to a Wordpress site on the same server.
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GWG Okay, now my site delivers GeoJSON in the JSONFeed.
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Zegnat Tested against nanopub and omnibear again, and it looks like my more secure token design works just fine :D
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sknebel [stefp]: I believe known has a way of showing the tokens it has given out, can you check if its there correctly (and then maybe try with a different client)
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[stefp] I’m not sure how to do that.
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[stefp] okay just found a page with Indiepub accounts and tokens
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aaronpk [stefp]: does it show you the actual token in that page?
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[stefp] It shows this https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FAPQP3XTR/screenshot_2018-05-12_17.46.22.png?pub_secret=1fabfc7034&name=Screenshot 2018-05-12 17.46.22.png
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aaronpk interesting, this might be the same problem others are running in to
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aaronpk i don't see that token in ownyourgram
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aaronpk which means ownyourgram must not be updating the token when you log back in
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jgmac1106 something I haven’t seen an html. What do parentheses do? Like in the example of a nested h-card on http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
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GWG aaronpk, it's not me its you m
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GWG ?
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jgmac1106 (<a class="p-org h-card" href="http://mozilla.org/">Mozilla Foundation</a>)
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Zegnat jgmac1106, parantheses do nothing, they are just parantheses?
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aaronpk GWG: quite possibly. that was the most likely explanation.
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jgmac1106 then why use something that does nothing?
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jgmac1106 just me
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GWG aaronpk, I still have things to fix though
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aaronpk jgmac1106: they appear in the page as parentheses, like written
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Zegnat Because they want it to show up in text as “Mitchell Baker (Mozilla Foundation)”
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jgmac1106 ohh okay
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jgmac1106 duh
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[stefp] aaronpk, when I first looked at the page there were several similar entries
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[stefp] with different tokens
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aaronpk does one start with 9f7c?
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[stefp] I revoked a lot but the current one does start with that
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jgmac1106 Can I do this: <img class="u-photo avatar" src="https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2015/10/05/22/37/blank-profile-picture-973461_1280.png" alt="blank profile”>?
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jgmac1106 If I add .u-photo .avatar in my stylesheet
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aaronpk [stefp]: and does OYG still fail with that token?
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Zegnat jgmac1106, sure
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Zegnat Thoguh you probably do not want that alt like that
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[stefp] yes
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aaronpk if that's the case, then it's definitely something with your server config
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jgmac1106 is the alt tag better before the source?
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jgmac1106 or just the space?
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Zegnat The alt attribute itself is fine, I meant the content
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aaronpk i just realized that your http header says you're using litespeed, not apache. Try searching for how to get the server to allow the HTTP Authorization header throuogh.
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jgmac1106 trying to be way more intentional about getting accessibility right
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[stefp] okay thanks
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Zegnat More often than not, I think that empty alt values are best for profile pictures.
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Zegnat But I have seen different recommendations there.
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jgmac1106 I was going to probably put “Add Your Name Here"
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Zegnat But if their actual name is after the avatar, screenreaders are just going to read the same name twice
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Zegnat That is my issue with those alt-s.
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Zegnat Don’t remember if we documented any sources on that...
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Zegnat What is accessibility?
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Loqi Accessibility is the practice of designing so that people with disabilities can have equal access to information and functionality, applicable to both websites as well as physical environments https://indieweb.org/accessibility
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jgmac1106 okay that does make sense
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jgmac1106 When ever I am using an image as a metaphor , or juts share a pretty picture I am always tempted to write a line of versein the alt tag but never want to add additional text to screen readers.
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Zegnat Trying to find some actual advice for profile pictures ...
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Zegnat Facebook is interesting. Empty alt, but does contain an aria-label.
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sknebel http://alistapart.com/blog/post/on-alt-text + the comments is a good example how it's difficult
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sknebel article argues for excluding it, comments has a bunch of arguments for why thats wrong
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: if the actual name is after/before the profile picture then alt="" makes sense
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Zegnat That was my takeaway the last time I looked into it, KartikPrabhu. But can’t find any sources to back it up.
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KartikPrabhu that is what I use on my site too
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Zegnat accessibility << [http://alistapart.com/blog/post/on-alt-text A List Apart On Alt Text], great discussion of cases in [http://alistapart.com/blog/post/on-alt-text#comments the comments].
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Loqi ok, I added "[http://alistapart.com/blog/post/on-alt-text A List Apart On Alt Text], great discussion of cases in [http://alistapart.com/blog/post/on-alt-text#comments the comments]." to the "See Also" section of /accessibility https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47774&oldid=44193
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Zegnat Note: ALA uses alt="" on the commenters’ bios.
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sknebel I found http://alistapart.com/comments/on-alt-text#333789 an interesting response
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sknebel I've also seen people recommend to not have it in feeds (slows down to much, not that relevant), but on profile pages
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Zegnat Yes. I think I have a guideline for that I could link after dinner.
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Zegnat Basically that "repeated images" should not have alt
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jgmac1106 https://github.com/jgmac1106/opensciencespace/blob/master/profiles/directory.html
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jgmac1106 That is where I ended up. The image does come before the name, but it would result in name being read twice in a row
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Zegnat You have a double p-name in there?
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Zegnat On the a and on the h4.
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Zegnat GitHub on mobile apparently doesn't show line numbers for me to link
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KartikPrabhu https://github.com/jgmac1106/opensciencespace/blob/master/profiles/directory.html#L70
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk does Aperture do WebSub subscriptions or just use Watchtower?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk [eddie]: aperture doesn't do any fetching of feeds at all, it offloads that to Watchtower
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 8 minutes ago: does Aperture do WebSub subscriptions or just use Watchtower?
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aaronpk I want to add websub subscriptions to watchtower but haven't yet
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] Yes I was going to ask how to handle that situation. Where to place it
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Zegnat You can have it on either element, will have the same effect.
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Zegnat p-* means it takes the plain text representation of the element, and for both the a and the h4 that will be the exact same string.
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Zegnat I would put the p-name on the h4, because that’s the element closest to the string that you want
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jgmac1106 okay, that is what I did. Thanks
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jgmac1106 was called away for a wiffle ball game, now I have to “help” my youngest in a Splatoon Splatfest but sitting down and trying to make a template site in between turns
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[eddie] aaronpk: ohhh okay. Because the interface between Watchtower and Aperture was WebSub based, I just assumed the actual WebSub logic would be in Aperture but that makes sense to keep it all in Watchtower
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aaronpk i would say the interface between the two is loosely websub-based
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[eddie] aaronpk: I was just curious because I realized some people that post at different rates will cause their posts to come in the next day. Like it’s been a little while since [cleverdevil] posted. So his posts from yesterday I saw today. So first I started thinking I should manually be able to bring a fetching priority higher. But then I realized really WebSub is the real solution rather than manually raising the fetching timers
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aaronpk yeah websub is the real solution
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aaronpk also making watchtower get better at adjusting the polling times
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[eddie] WebSub++
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Loqi websub has 3 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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[stefp] My Wordpress site is on the same server and OYG works correctly.
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aaronpk well that's odd then
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jgmac1106 when I look at source code why do I sometimes see links to: <link href="http://microformats.org/profile/h-card" rel="profile" /> and such. I thought links in the header were not required.
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Zegnat There is a profile for h-card?
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Zegnat Those are (or, I thought, used to be) links specifically to inform anyone reading your source how to interpret the metadata
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Zegnat By linking to the microformats documentation
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jgmac1106 okay thanks
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jgmac1106 thinking about a citation as an h-event but the author, the article title, and the journal will have a name
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jgmac1106 I think I am just going to leave it a p-summary and call it a day. The more and more granular I am getting the less and less useful it is becoming to the audience
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gRegorLove h-event or h-entry?
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gRegorLove citation would be h-cite. There's properties p-author and p-publication
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jgmac1106 okay I didn’t see that
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jgmac1106 http://microformats.org/wiki/h-cite
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jgmac1106 I never knew there was an html cite element
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jgmac1106 seems redundant but I guess I could syle the elemnent for APA
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jgmac1106 now that Ithink about it, that is the use cae. i can have the style for mla, chicago, apa, etc
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jgmac1106 gonna call it quits. Here is where I got on a profile page template: https://github.com/jgmac1106/opensciencespace/blob/master/profiles/template
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jgmac1106 I was slightly confused on where to add the microformats markup in terms of bootstrap. Should it always supersede a row? Is it okay to go across multiple rows. Just stuck with try to keep “stuff together” and get as close to the element as possible
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Zegnat It really doesn’t matter where you put the microformats, but as close to the actual values as possibles is often easy later on.
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Zegnat I’ll have a look after Eurovision ;)
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tantek_ hey can we provide a path to folks eliminating bootstrap now that CSS Grid works cross-browser?
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tantek_ cleaning up your markup (as CSS Grid enables) often greatly helps with structuring it around meaning (microformats) rather than columnar layout hacks (bootstrap)
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[kevinmarks] Bootstrap--
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Loqi bootstrap has -1 karma in this channel (-7 overall)
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[kevinmarks] I was looking at shoelace as a "default styling html" lib, but it seems to have a version of the daft bootstrap duodecimal grid too.
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[kevinmarks] Ouch https://twitter.com/x0rz/status/995358920817430529?s=19
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@x0rz The one bug to bring them all down - CVE-2018-1000136 (including, but not limited to: Signal Desktop, Slack, Discord, Atom, Visual Studio Code, Github Desktop) https://www.trustwave.com/Resources/SpiderLabs-Blog/CVE-2018-1000136---Electron-nodeIntegration-Bypass/ #electron #vulnerability (twitter.com/_/status/995358920817430529)
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[jgmac1106] I know. Need to spend time with CSS grid, but learn one thing at a time
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tantek_ cssgrid++
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Loqi cssgrid has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu cssgrid++
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Loqi cssgrid has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu actually it is a bit annoying to use microformats with CSS grid, since CSS grid only works on direct children. So properly nesting microformats needs some "hacking" around
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