#dev 2018-05-18

2018-05-18 UTC
[Khurt_Williams], strugee, eli_oat, [xavierroy], renem and ben_thatmustbeme joined the channel
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david.shanske.com
edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+36) "/* Comment Type Indicator */"
(view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+15) "/* Extensions */"
(view diff)
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jgmac1106
and none of my Known webmention endpoints work at all. They just decided to stop. Must have made them mad. [ChrisAldrich suggested I reset my Bridgy setting s but I don’t know if one can
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Zegnat
Interesting
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Zegnat
So, the error listed at 2018-05-16 21:32:41.594980 is saying that you do not accept webmentions to your homepage, jgmac1106
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jgmac1106
but I am using SemPress and have the webmentions plugin and it worked on 5-15
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Zegnat
Bridgy wants to send a webmention with `https://jgregorymcverry.com/` as the target, and then your WordPress endpoint tells it that isn’t a valid post. Even when I try it manually using the form at https://jgregorymcverry.com/wp-json/webmention/1.0/endpoint
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jgmac1106
I wonder if that is the day I switched from my theme to sempress. I switched becasue I thought going more compatible would be less headaches
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Loqi
[Greg McVerry] Online Research and Media Skills
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jgmac1106
sonow I have lost both MicroPub and webmentions on My WordPress and webmentions on my Known site....awesome
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Zegnat
I thought that the “Target is not a valid post” was the error WP generates when it receives the webmention but then doesn’t know what to do with it because it isn’t pointing at a blog post.
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Zegnat
Are homepage mentions supported by the WP endpoint? Some WP user might be able to tell us ...
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jgmac1106
and here it is on the PostKin page
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Zegnat
But that isn’t where Bridgy is trying to send the mention to
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Zegnat
It is sending it with the target being your homepage
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Zegnat
Because the source of the webmention (https://brid-gy.appspot.com/post/twitter/jgmac1106/996862425029754880) doesn’t mention that post at all. So it can’t be sending the webmention there.
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Loqi
[Chris Aldrich] Virtual Homebrew Website Club Meetup on May 30, 2018 (Perhaps with some #edtech / #WordPress flavor?) @jgmac1106 @wiobyrne @taylorjadin @kimberlyhirsh @johnjohnston @mrkrndvs @xolotl @cathieleblanc @edtechfactotum boffosocko.com/2018/05/16/vir…
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Zegnat
Instead it seems to be pinging your h-card from that tweet, which contains your homepage URL. And WP doesn’t seem to accept mentions to the homepage.
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jgmac1106
Okay let me switch themes and see if that helps….I just got SemPress the way I wanted it
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Zegnat
Way I am seeing this, that doesn’t change this specific webmention.
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Zegnat
The Webmention endpoint simply didn’t accept it. That endpoint knows nothing about your theme.
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jgmac1106
If anyone has a twitter account and wants to send me a webmention to: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/996564108366540800
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Zegnat
I’ll write a reply there. Lets see what happens.
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Zegnat
There you go, I replied to the tweet
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jgmac1106
I did turn off Jetpack I wonder if the webmentions that did not work were syndicated through JetPack and not Bridgy
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Zegnat
shouldn’t matter.
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jgmac1106
but that doesn’t make sense as most people syndicate through jetpack
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Zegnat
This Tweet was seen as a reply to the specific blog post, your previous tweet was not seen as such. That seems to be the difference.
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sknebel
you need to enable homepage webmentions for Wordpress
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sknebel
since wordpress has no concept of comments on the homepage
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sknebel
the plugin allows to configure a different page to store them
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Zegnat
sknebel with the knowledge dump :)
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jgmac1106
but I wouldn’t want the webmention on my homepage . I am also talking to [pfefferle] as the webmentions form isn’t even shoiwng up on my posts
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sknebel
but that's what a pure @someone on twitter means. it's a mention of you, not a specific post, thus it's send to your homepage
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jgmac1106
[sknebel] thx, what i am tryign to figure out is why when the link on Twitter was syndicated and included…goign to experiment today with new ones now that JetPack is off
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Zegnat
Yeah. The first “failing” webmention you linked is just a webmention because it includes your twitter user. So if you do not want them, it is correct that it failed.
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jgmac1106
homepage webmentions enables and going top my about me page
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Zegnat
Try resending the one that previously failed? (I think Bridgy can do that?)
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jgmac1106
wow [sknebel] once I enabled it the webmentions form displayed correclty. Sorry to bring all this wordpress to dev. I thought it was a bridgy thing
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Zegnat
Life is so much easier without all this backfeeding to worry about though :P
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sknebel
annoying that the new Twitter APIs aren't open to all. I guess I'll try to get access as "student/learning to code" and hope they accept that?
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Zegnat
Can you get access as a student? Maybe I should apply then
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jgmac1106
[zegnat] that is the goal. It won’t be for this summer, probaly bnot next semester but I am trying to build in the infrastructure now that will be part of just using a microsub reader as my learning management system
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jgmac1106
and never havet to backfeed at all. Edventually Twitter will break bridgy
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jgmac1106
would love a webmention test of: It is day five of #IndieWeb WordPress experiment: https://jgregorymcverry.com/it-is-day-five-of-indieweb-wordpress-experiment/ (http://twtr.io/1dyUjY0boRb)
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jgmac1106
later in the day I will turn JetPack back on syndicate a link and see if the webmention only goes to my homepage
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sknebel
Zegnat: what I quoted is one of the categories they allow. they still want details about the app, but I'll try make up something generic and reference that I don't have a product cause playing around
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jgmac1106
…hmmm totally willing to exploit my role as a professor for free api access if it looks possible
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jeremycherfas
!tell zegnat I am also not using your `sed` commands but doing it by hand.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat
jeremycherfas, good. That’ll show you a bit of the internals then :) The REAME I did was obviously just for me to get the same set-up every time, and I didn’t want to revisit the configs
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jeremycherfas
OK. All done, Ihope.
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jeremycherfas
crosses fingers and launches Chrome
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skippy
ahoy hoy
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jeremycherfas
Ahoy skippy
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jgmac1106
morning [skippy]
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skippy
how to micropub clients denote to a micropub server that an incoming submission is a bookmark? Do they specifically set h-type to bookmark?
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Zegnat
They include the bookmark-of property, and that should be enough.
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skippy
ah-ha. thanks.
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cweiske
curl -X POST -H 'User-Agent: shpub' -H 'Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded' -H 'Authorization: Bearer asdf' -d 'h=entry' -d 'bookmark-of=http://example.org' 'https://commentpara.de/micropub.php'
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skippy
contemplating making my micropub server even more complicated. :)
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jeremycherfas
Zegnat There seems to be something very odd about the address I give to Omnibear. I give it http://localhost:8888/offlinepub.test but the browser shows offlinepub.test and says it cannot be reached.
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jeremycherfas
err name not resolved
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Zegnat
Sounds as if you are being redirected to `offlinepub.test`, which you obviously do not have. Are you sure you configured all the URLs right?
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jeremycherfas
Yes. Pretty sure.
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jeremycherfas
I'll recheck.
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Zegnat
Also in the index.html file? (Obvious one, but need to ask, incase you have only focussed on the separate config files.)
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jeremycherfas
Yes. Also in index.html
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jeremycherfas
Anyway, I can manually add it. And then I get this error
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jeremycherfas
error fetching token {message: "Error requesting token endpoint", status: null, error: TypeError: Failed to fetch}
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Zegnat
That’s not a helpful error at all. Can you check the actual HTTP request that Omnibear is doing?
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Zegnat
(Honestly, almost nobody gives actual good debugging messages in their projects, not just Omnibear.)
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skippy
"Oh Snap! Something went wrong!"
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jeremycherfas
I can try.
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jeremycherfas
But it doesn't show when I open the background page in Chrome.
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jeremycherfas
Huh? I tried without the http://localhost and everything SEEMS to have worked. Omnibear now has the correct token.
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jeremycherfas
Let me see what happens when I try to post something.
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jeremycherfas
Note posted successfully!
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jeremycherfas
I'm astonished.
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jeremycherfas
And there it is, under /content/micro/
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jeremycherfas
With about 8 minutes to go on my time limit. Seems a good time to stop.
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Zegnat
I have no idea what was stopping it from grabbing a token before then :P
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Zegnat
But there you go. selfauth+mintoken+nanopub = full offline micropubbing
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Zegnat
Or online-self-hosted, if you upload it. But if you do, please make sure to move things like the content folder and the tokens database file to outside your document root
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jeremycherfas
Oh, I'm not nearly ready to online yet.
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Loqi
yay!
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[grantcodes]
Those omnibear issues were likely related to my micropub library
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jeremycherfas
I liked the way skippy was handling creating the files in his micropub, and I need to adjust that to work with Grav. But at least I now know that I can use your chain to send stuff to the endpoint. The work now will be to make the endpoint add the YAML etc I need for Grav.
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[grantcodes]
It does generate some mildly useful errors, but could be improved
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jeremycherfas
Everyone++ for their help.
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Loqi
everyone has 1 karma in this channel (10 overall)
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Zegnat
[grantcodes], or the browser’s handling of the code
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Zegnat
There are still weird differences between the micropub helper code running in Firefox vs Chrome, IIRC
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[grantcodes]
I think it's more to do with it being in an extension and it's access to read headers
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Zegnat
You should be able to swap out nanopub for skippy’s micropub endpoint. I believe he also did some update to enable configurable token endpoint, jeremycherfas :) Maybe tomorrow’s 1 hour project, haha
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Loqi
agreed.
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[keithjgrant]
Yeah, I'd love to improve debugging feedback in Omnibear. There's an issue in for it, but I haven't had the time in a while
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jeremycherfas
Tomorrow I have to bake bagels. But I may find an hour.
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[keithjgrant]
It doesn't help that opening the console & seeing logs there is really complicated in an extension, and varies between browsers
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[keithjgrant]
So I'll need to create my own log screen of some sort
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jeremycherfas
The worst is that the pop-up inspector closes on success.
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[grantcodes]
Ha yeah that is a pain I've run into while debugging
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Zegnat
Yes, I hate how it doesn’t keep the pop-up open.
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jeremycherfas
So not easy to see what was sent.
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[keithjgrant]
There is an option to disable auto-closing
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Zegnat
There is?! :o
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[keithjgrant]
Settings screen 😎
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jeremycherfas
How? Where? Why wasn't it obvious?
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[keithjgrant]
3rd checkbox
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Zegnat
Oh my
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[keithjgrant]
"close Omnibear window after posting"
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Zegnat
Not a Chrome option, but an extension option. Gotcha! Never thought to look
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jeremycherfas
Yeah, I saw that, but had no idea it applied to the pop-up inspector.
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Zegnat
If the popup doesn’t disappear, the inspector wouldn’t either.
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Zegnat
That is brilliant and needs to be documented somewhere
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[keithjgrant]
Yeah. The inspector window closes if the page it's inspecting gets closed
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jeremycherfas
Well, now we know. Thanks [keithjgrant]
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[grantcodes]
Also I think Firefox doesn't do that. I think if you debug an extension in Firefox it opens one console that watches all scripts in the extension and doesn't close. Might be wrong on my understanding of that though
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Zegnat
Hmm, yeah, there is something like that where Firefox will start a separate debugger process that should always stay open.
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[keithjgrant]
Yeah. Debugging in FF is much easier
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[keithjgrant]
All the scripts log to the same window
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Zegnat
But I have had more success with omnibear in Chrome, haha
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[keithjgrant]
In chrome, you've got the page script, bg page, and the Omnibear popup, each logging to their own console
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[grantcodes]
[keithjgrant] did you also run into the issue of indieauth won't redirect to an extension url, hence the use of the omnibear domain?
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[keithjgrant]
That sounds familiar
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[keithjgrant]
So what's your extension do? Is it something worth merging into Omnibear?
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[grantcodes]
I'm not sure what the end goal is yet to be honest.
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[grantcodes]
At the moment it is for inline creating / editing posts
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[grantcodes]
But I also want to include bookmark syncing
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[grantcodes]
And maybe some more experimental stuff
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skippy
i'm just waiting for Omnibear syndication to get resolved.
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[grantcodes]
Perhaps merging the inline editing stuff with omnibear would make sense but then it feels quite different, in my opinion it would completely replace the posting UI as have one in the pop-up and one on your site is muddled
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[keithjgrant]
@skippy I've merged a PR that I think will fix it. I'll see if I can get a release it with that change soon
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skippy
thanks [keithjgrant] !
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@jgmac1106
Hey #edtechchat #digiuri #literacies #digped friends I need your help. Can you read this and then define “webmention?”: https://jgregorymcverry.com/hey-edtechchat-digiuri-literacies-digped-friends-i-need-your-help-can-you-read-this-and-then-define-webmention/
(twitter.com/_/status/997470649818939393)
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jgmac1106
[keithjgrant] I just started exploring the FF Develop edition, the console is nice
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jeremycherfas
is giving himself another hour.
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jeremycherfas
And wondering whether to adapt nanopub or micropub to suit his bizarro needs.
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Zegnat
They are pretty similar. Just written for two different author's needs. You could also take either of them as a base of yet another Micropub implementation
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jeremycherfas
What is the meaning of the integers in `json_encode($array, 32 | 64 | 128 | 256);`?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "meaning of the integers in `json_encode($array, 32 | 64 | 128 | 256);`" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "meaning of the integers in `json_encode($array, 32 | 64 | 128 | 256);` is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat
Those are the actual values behind the flags documented on the json_encode PHP documentation page.
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jeremycherfas
Really appreciating comments in code by dgold
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Zegnat
I can't tell you which integer matches which flag without looking it up though. Not sure why he used the ints and not the constants.
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jeremycherfas
OK. So things like JSON_HEX etc etc.
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jeremycherfas
Thanks. That bit wasn't making sense to me.
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Zegnat
Gives an interesting peek into how those flags actually work!
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dgold
jeremycherfas: oh, I'm so sorry - I meant to leave those in the comments.
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dgold
I'll add that now
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dgold
Zegnat: spaghetti code prevention
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dgold
one of the code linter things recommended it.
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jeremycherfas
No worries. I'm just trying to get a feel for what's going on.
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Zegnat
Well, you could make it even shorter and more indecipherable by swapping it out for the one integer result of that bitwise-OR ;-)
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dgold
Zegnat: um, amplify?
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sknebel
32 | 64 | 128 | 256 is 481
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jeremycherfas
Dgold Your nanopub handles all webmention actions as well? I didn't reallse that.
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sknebel
(not suggesting someone actually do that. use the flag constants, there there for a reason)
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Zegnat
I was doing my very best to get my phone to tell me the result
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dgold
sknebel: but but - can I set a variable to the constants, then call the variable to insert the constants
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Zegnat
But sknebel meat me to it
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dgold
sknebel: because -- JSON_NUMERIC_CHECK | JSON_UNESCAPED_SLASHES | JSON_PRETTY_PRINT | JSON_UNESCAPED_UNICODE -- all over the place looks godawful.
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Zegnat
481 looks great to me ;-)
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sknebel
sure, a variable also makes sense
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dgold
Zegnat: but, as jeremy quite rightly points out, its not exactly "verbose" for giving information to someone reading the code.
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sknebel
Zegnat: phone? 512 - 31 isn't *that* complicated ;)
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Zegnat
You are right, sknebel, clearly my binary foo is insufficient, haha
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Zegnat
I didn't think to do that. Haha
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dgold
PHP Warning: json_encode() expects parameter 2 to be integer, string given in /Users/aidenmac/play/arraydisp.php on line 87
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Zegnat
String?
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dgold
i set a variable $json_format to "JSON_NUMERIC_CHECK | JSON_PRETTY_PRINT";
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sknebel
without the "
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sknebel
it's a number
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dgold
habemus papem
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jeremycherfas
And you can keep him.
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jeremycherfas
Dgold++ for a really intelligible nanopub.
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Loqi
dgold has 19 karma in this channel (47 overall)
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dgold
he seems like a nice enough sort of chap, jeremycherfas.
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dgold
apart from the whole chilean thing, which was just damned peculiar
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jeremycherfas
My goal, for now, is very limited: post Asides (status updates, notes, whatevers) to my Grav site from a client.
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jeremycherfas
I don't follow the news, as you can tell.
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jeremycherfas
Grav expects each post to be within a folder. I can create a properly named folder, based on modifying dgold's $udate. But I don't seem to be able to write the file into that directory by changing $fn. Am I better off to try and move the file after it has been written?
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dgold
does the grav-user (presumably www-data) have proper write/create permissions in the folder?
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jeremycherfas
To put it another way, how do I pass the path as part of the filename? I've tried everything I can think of.
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jeremycherfas
Permissions is 755 on the folder
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dgold
aaronpk: when using xmlrpc.p3k, should I be entering _my_ site as the "publish to" in apps, or the xmlrpc.p3k.io/example.com address?
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dgold
and the folder owner?
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jeremycherfas
Owner is rwe so should be OK
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dgold
ok, if you're creating a folder, you may need to create the folder prior to writing a file into it
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aaronpk
dgold: you enter your own domain name when logging in. because you link to the xmlrpc.p3k.io site from your home page.
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dgold
I'm afraid I'm far from the best person to ask about that
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dgold
aaronpk: thank you
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jeremycherfas
I am doing that. Folder gets created just fine, and file gets written to $fn as per your nanopub dgold. But when I try to set $fn = ($path . $frontmatter['slug']) . "item.md"; it borks. But mkdir ($path . $frontmatter['slug']); works just fine
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jeremycherfas
$path being hard-coded, for now.
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dgold
you may need some '/' in there
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jeremycherfas
Maybe. I'll try some of that.
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dgold
after $frontmatter['slug']
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dgold
i really need to make those paths configurable
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dgold
just stop trying to fit all cases and just fit my cases
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jeremycherfas
Well, I'm baffled, so I think I will give up and have a beer.
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jeremycherfas
Good night all.
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Loqi
goodnight!
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dgold
goodnight jeremy
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dgold
aaronpk: hmmm, doesn't work with the icro microblog app
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aaronpk
does irco not use micropub?
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dgold
no, it does not
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aaronpk
oh darn
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dgold
its a nice looking app, but that's three-in-a-row for m.b apps that don't do micropub
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dgold
which, given that m.b's backend _is_ micropub, is both annoying and frustrating
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dgold
you're already fecking using it!
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aaronpk
that must point to either some additional work to support micropub that is too hard, or maybe just a lack of interest because people tend to gravitate to silo-only solutions because they're easier
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aaronpk
what did Irco end up implementing for authorization in micro.blog? I didn't think micro.blog has an oauth server.
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[cleverdevil]
Icro's latest beta supports Micropub.
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[cleverdevil]
Though, it requires you to manually paste in endpoint and token.
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[cleverdevil]
It'd be great if someone like [eddie] could take their individual components for things like Micropub, Indieauth, and Microsub client libraries, and make them available to iOS developers.
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[cleverdevil]
Make it as easy as possible for iOS developers to support the Indieweb.
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[eddie]
Yeah, that’s definitely the goal. I have learned a lot getting Indigenous built. Once it’s live I would like to take the code I wrote and turn it into a Swift library. I’ve tried to keep the IndieAuth/Micropub specific code as separate as possible
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[eddie]
aaronpk: Icro supports micro.blog’s login mechanism. When you finish the login flow you have the m.b hosted token.
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KartikPrabhu
what is icro?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "icro" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "icro is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[eddie]
aaronpk: I think if m.b supported the IndieAuth flow for its login functionality that would get more people to use it
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[eddie]
I think it points to more silo-focused behavior than a difficulty in Micropub. With limited time they are focusing on core m.b stuff
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[eddie]
So the more code m.b stuff (like login) that uses IndieWeb standards, the more people will build to spec
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[eddie]
I think one challenge is posting seems to be the most difficult challenge for people because m.b native app supports XML-RPC, m.b Micropub (with m.b login) and Micropub using IndieAuth
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[eddie]
So any new app maker is thinking about 3 types of login/posting
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[eddie]
So even the new Android app has punted on posting for their first release
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[eddie]
I also think when the 3rd party m.b apps are looking at the three specs, IndieAuth Micropub is at the bottom of their list. Because more people know and understand Wordpress and XML-RPC
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dgold
a reference swift indiesuite would be a huge bonus
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dgold
[eddie]: I did follow the login mechanism, it disnae work
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dgold
oh, the beta, nvm
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[manton]
I need to update the docs to better explain the posting APIs. XML-RPC is really just a legacy API to solve 2 things: letting apps like MarsEdit post to M.b-hosted blogs, and letting the M.b app post to WordPress blogs. New clients like Icro can mostly ignore XML-RPC unless they need out-of-the-box WordPress posting.
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[manton]
Er, meaning WordPress without any extra plugins.
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dgold
you could put a [deprecated] flag on the XML-RPC, but that might scare people away
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[manton]
I put Micropub at the top of the "Posting API" help documentation, with XML-RPC at the end. But it's kind of confusing. Room for improvement here. http://help.micro.blog/2017/api-posting/
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dgold
you could possibly use a spec-type language, "should" vs. "may"
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sknebel
or explicitly say "I recommend you use Micropub, xml-rpc is mainly for backwards compatibility for things that do not yet support Micropub"
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[manton]
Thanks. Yep, that makes sense to me.
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[manton]
It will be a little confusing to users because not all clients are going to support all the same blogging servers. But that probably can't be avoided.
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[eddie]
[manton] I was thinking about that the other day. It would probably be more work than it’s worth, but I was wondering. What if you have Micropub support for the actual micro.blog/user that could act as a forwarding mechanism to things like xml-rpc.
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[eddie]
So a user could log in to xml-rpc on the micro.blog website and then receive posts from any app that sends a Micropub post to micro.blog
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[eddie]
You could use the same mp-destination for hosted blogs and external blogs like Wordpress
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[manton]
I think I originally avoided that because I didn't want to store everyone's WordPress passwords on the server. But it could be done. It would be simpler in a few ways.
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[eddie]
Ohhhh that’s true. That does get a little tricky
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[eddie]
Server versus app storing them
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[manton]
Right, in the app they're in the iOS keychain so no big deal.
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[eddie]
Yeah, that makes sense
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aaronpk
let's get marsedit to add micropub support, then one less thing relying on legacy xml-rpc :D
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[eddie]
Probably better just getting Micropub optimized everywhere we can just not need xml-rpc as much
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[eddie]
Ah, haha yep
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[eddie]
I guess in order for that. We need some specs around querying server posts. I don’t think Daniel wants to touch it until it can support the features he has in xml-rpc. From what I’ve seen him say
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[manton]
I think everything for querying posts is documented now, but just has limited support on server implementations. (And the documentation might not all be in one place yet...)
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dgold
you had incredible uptick in speed recently, thank you
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[manton]
Good to hear!
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skippy
i need to make a fail2ban filter for my Caddy error log to block the chumps looking for wp-login on my Hugo-powered site.
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snarfed
or just ignore them
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loqi.me
created /scuttlebutt (+113) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and dfn added by skippy"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
wow that's a lot of words "self-sovereign identity solution for decentralized systems"
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skippy
seems like a suitable response to that miasma of words....
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aaronpk
okay, just read https://www.computerworld.com/article/3244128/security/how-blockchain-makes-self-sovereign-identities-possible.html and I'm pretty sure indieauth would also check all those boxes of "self-soverign identity"
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aaronpk
considering signing up to demo indieauth by demoing a bunch of completely different identity providers all working together
snarfed joined the channel
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schmarty
aaronpk++ yessss
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Loqi
aaronpk has 143 karma in this channel (1635 overall)
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /scuttlebutt (-81) "redirect to Secure ScuttleButt"
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aaronpk
okay, signed up and booked travel
KartikPrabhu, snarfed, eli_oat and AngeloGladding joined the channel