#dev 2018-05-21

2018-05-21 UTC
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[jeremycherfas] It seemed to me more of a no tracking thing. That if you follow a link from his site, your destination won’t know you came from there. That is how I read it.
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[grantcodes] Is there any reason why micropub doesn't return the location of new posts / media as json? Trying to read headers is really killing me in this extension.
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Zegnat [grantcodes], I think the reason was so endpoint stuff is agnostic of this-years-favourite serialisation format. Authentication (access token) and success status (with location) are all using the HTTP protocol as their format.
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Zegnat But not sure, as some stuff definitely seems pinned to JSON anyway.
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Jeena moin
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Zegnat Good morning Jeena :)
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jeremycherfas Having trouble understanding why this post http://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/2018-05-21 is not showing up in the comments here https://microblog.phoneboy.com/2018/05/19/981/ while my earlier comment now shows up twice. Not that it really matters to me ...
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Zegnat Not sure how Known handles replies to replies, so can’t tell you.
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Zegnat I do find it interesting that your post is `in-reply-to` 4 separate URLs
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jeremycherfas Well, it is a comment on each of them. What should they be?
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Zegnat Not sure at all, and definitely not saying it is wrong, jeremycherfas!
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jeremycherfas Fair enough. Manual till it hurts sometimes hurts too much.
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Zegnat I guess I am always a little inclined to make it a reply to only the one thing that made me write it. And not also a reply to things further up the reply chain. If that makes sense?
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Zegnat Shouldn’t make a difference for the parsing end though
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dgold !tell [miklib] no-referrer is nothing to do with webmentions. It is solely so that if you follow a link on my site, the site you travel to does not know you've come from my site.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas That's what I thought, dgold, as you explained it on your page.
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jeremycherfas !tell zegnat I suppose I am trying to make sure that all the various posts tie together, but maybe that isn't necessary. People can follow the links if they choose to.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat There is definitely some value in your markup too jeremycherfas. I don’t see why consumers of the mf2 would have problems with it, so stick to it :D
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Loqi Zegnat: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 minute ago: I suppose I am trying to make sure that all the various posts tie together, but maybe that isn't necessary. People can follow the links if they choose to.
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@jgmac1106 Thinking about different webmention and bridgy questions people will have: * If I have the webmention plugin what happens if I add a link to a post on a blog where somebody else has webmentions? * If I have webmentions and I reply to to somone’s… https://jgregorymcverry.com/2684-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/998492236420669441)
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@cathieleblanc ↩️ @jgmac1106 First question most people will have (even those who already have a website): what's a webmention? (twitter.com/_/status/998495647425843205)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Agree. These questions are coming out of my user interviews with people who already have the webmentions plug-in installed on WordPress. Want to develop answers both succinct and correct. Just correct is okay too. (https://jgregorymcverry.com/2686-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/998497767000543232)
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@petermolnar ↩️ Webmention: one website to poke another website that an entry of mine (the first website) has your (the second website) link (URL), so the contents of the entry might be interesting to you. The rest is up to the second website - process it? Display it? Etc. (twitter.com/_/status/998505847717318656)
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jgmac1106 so left terminal when trying to run a curl test on my Known site. Have no idea what this mean though: Gregs-iMac:~ jgmac1106$ curl -I https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com
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jgmac1106 curl: (92) HTTP/2 stream 1 was not closed cleanly: PROTOCOL_ERROR (err 1)
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Zegnat Huh. It works for me
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Zegnat Oh, no, it does on an older version of curl but not on a more recent one
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Zegnat jgmac1106, I am not a protocol expert, but it looks to me as if your server advertises that it can do HTTP/2, but when curl tries to use it the server doesn’t respond correctly.
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Zegnat You can add --http1.1 to the curl command so curl doesn’t upgrade, and that seems to work
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jgmac1106 was hoping maybe I stumbled on to why micropub doesn’t work for me
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Zegnat Hmm
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Zegnat Possibly
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Zegnat If the micropub tools try to correctly use HTTP/2 (which I doubt, actually, as a lot of tooling fails at HTTP/2) and are not getting anything back from your server, they would immediately fail
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Zegnat I wonder why browsers aren’t failing at your site though, as they usually try HTTP/2
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[jgmac1106] just would love to solve micropub, might try another 30 day free host to see if it my shared hosting provider
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I like this definition a lot @petermolnar. Here is my try: A webmention is a protocol, or set of rules dictating how data is shared on the web, that tells your website another place on the web published something with a link back to to your site. To… https://jgregorymcverry.com/2697-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/998521730753851392)
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@GrowingAshley ↩️ @Andrewb2299 Microsub Headpatbug Lapdog I have WAY too many for you. (twitter.com/_/status/998545470619312128)
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petermolnar ^^^ this thread is _really_ not related imo.
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jeremycherfas !tell dgold Your nanopub functions array_replace_keys() decode_input() and recode_input() seem to be where I would look to make nanopub play nicely with Grav's YAML; is that correct?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[miklb] !tell dgold that’s my point, without a webmention, using no-referrer means I will never know you linked to something I wrote. I realize they are two different technologies.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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dgold ah, I see what you mean, I think
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Loqi dgold: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 hour, 15 minutes ago: Your nanopub functions array_replace_keys() decode_input() and recode_input() seem to be where I would look to make nanopub play nicely with Grav's YAML; is that correct?
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Loqi dgold: [miklb] left you a message 2 minutes ago: that’s my point, without a webmention, using no-referrer means I will never know you linked to something I wrote. I realize they are two different technologies.
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dgold but I'm not sure that the efficacy of you knowing that I wrote something about you supersedes the right of someone visiting my site to not be "tracked" on the internet
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dgold jeremycherfas: that's precisely where you should be looking
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jeremycherfas Cool. And that's where I am. Deep in the weeds.
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dgold [miklb]: in fact, I think that type of tracking is where I got onto this boat in the first place - if I wanted you to know I wrote about you, I'd tell you :-)
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[miklb] thus why you send webmentions 🙂
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[miklb] I mean, you could be writing something really bad about me or my writing, have a big audience, send them to my site, and without a webmention and using no-referrer I’d have to hunt to find where this was coming from. Who’s rights are being protected there?
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dgold the rights of the users on my site following a link
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dgold who I think should have the highest degree of protection
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[miklb] So I could in theory block all traffic coming from no-referrers then.
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dgold why would you do that?
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sknebel so you're blocking everyone who directly goes to your site?
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sknebel + noreferer is very common, you can not rely on it
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dgold I don't see a "right" that you're protecting there, [miklb]
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[miklb] I’m asking questions
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Zegnat referrers have always been a bit weird. There is this entire gap in them to, when traveling between the HTTP and HTTPS web, I believe.
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dgold okay - I don't see that there's any question of a "right" to have details of where visitors are coming to your site
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dgold *from
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[miklb] I went with strict-origin-when-cross-origin based on one of the links I read yesterday.
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dgold whereas I do see, strongly, that there's a right to be able to folow links on the internet without your movements being tracked
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dgold and s-o-w-c-o is a tracking modality
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Zegnat There were whole no-referer-redirect-services out there. Lots of forums used those, so when you linked to something, they wouldn’t know you were coming from a (sometimes private) server. No loss to lose those pesky things for real.
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dgold I can see a case for same-origin, to check the efficiency of your internal links, but I don't see a privacy-case supporting sowco
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jeremycherfas Noob php question: the frontmatter sent by Omnibear optionally contains an array called `tags`. Grav expects an element called `tag` to be nested under an element called `taxonomy`. I have tried `$frontmatter['taxonomy'] = $frontmatter['tags'];` and various versions, and nothing seems to work. Any tips gratefully received.
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jeremycherfas Array_push() does not do what I want.
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petermolnar jeremycherfas: I need some code context to help with that
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[kevinmarks] how about $frontmatter['taxonomy']['tag'] = $frontmatter['tags'];
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petermolnar that sounds about right
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jeremycherfas Thaks petermolnar I have nearly solved it with `$frontmatter['taxonomy'][] = $frontmatter['tags'];`
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jeremycherfas Just need to fiddle a bit more.I think that may be it, kevinmarks
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[kevinmarks] that would do what you said, give you tag nested under taxonomy.
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[kevinmarks] though whether it wants an array or string you'll have to check
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jeremycherfas Yup, that did it. Thanks very much. I got some of the way there. It'll take an array or a string, so I'm good.
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jeremycherfas And fortunately, probably, I have run out of time for further testing. But this is a good time to break.
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petermolnar btw, a tip: dict (associative array) for tags, like $x['tagname'] = 1; array_keys() for the actual values => deduplication built in an very, very fast lookup for existing values
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[kevinmarks] though you usually don't have enough tags for that to br a problem, unless you're an instagram influencer
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "The Indieweb privacy challenge (Webmentions, silo backfeeds, and the GDPR) // Sebastian Greger" http://ing.am/p/4YYe (twitter.com/_/status/998588894697476096)
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petermolnar [kevinmarks]: or if you're on linux/unix... say Landscape != landscape :)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @sharkespearean @DrAndrewThaler we're talking about how to revive that experience in #indieweb land https://indieweb.org/Microsub (twitter.com/_/status/998600222690500608)
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[jgmac1106] I am marking up my course template. Would you give the course header an h-card as if it had identity or an h-entry?
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Zegnat I would only give persons (natural and legal) an h-card. So I wouldn’t use one for a course.
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Zegnat The course may be created by a natural (you) or legal (the university) person, who could be marked up with an h-card. But the course itself is just one of possibly many courses by this person, and I feel like that makes sense as an h-entry.
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Zegnat Feel free to question and/or challenge me on that though. Not like it is set in stone. But that’s how I use h-cards.
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aaronparecki.com edited /Microsub (+53) "/* Servers */" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] that makes sense, I will revise, its the syllabi that get real messy each week an h-event with due dates and with the correct markup for each APA citation
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snarfed fwiw, there's plenty of h-card usage for non-persons, eg organizations and locations
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[kevinmarks] A course is a collection of events? So the header could be an h-feed header
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Zegnat organisations would be legal persons in my example, snarfed. Locations was definitely not covered by my [natural|legal] persons example though. Good catch. I am not sure I have ever used that myself.
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snarfed i expect http://indiewebcat.com/ also has an h-card :P
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Loqi Dora
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aaronpk haha
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Zegnat Darn, clearly I need to revise my guideline, haha
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Zegnat I still think courses aren’t h-cards though :P
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snarfed we probably don't need a strict definition of what can or can't have an h-card
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snarfed reasonablehumanjudgmentexperimentationanddiversity++
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Loqi reasonablehumanjudgmentexperimentationanddiversity has 1 karma
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sebsel So, in Microsub, you can read entries from channels, remove them and mark them as read, but you can't add them.
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sebsel I know Aperture does this with a sort of Micropub-endpoint, but that's not part of this spec.
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sebsel My use case: in my experimental reader I had the function to mark things as 'read later'. That way, I could just scroll through my channels / feeds, and let the reader mark everything as read, but still let me get back to the things I found interesting.
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sebsel Another way to go would be if there's an option to get all unread items from a channel, but that's not a nice flow if you're marking as read automatically, like Together does.
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat well eventually I want an h-course or h-learning....but again I need a user total >1 for that to have any value
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[grantcodes] [sebsel] auto marked read is an option in together 🙂
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peterstuifzand.nl edited /Microsub (-1) "/* Servers */" (view diff)
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pstuifzand There is a use case for keeping stuff unread, but as of yet it's not supported by the protocol.
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pstuifzand I added two ways to add items to channels, (1) adding items from the outside using a micropub like protocol, and (2) adding items from the inside, metions, for example: items that match a certain regex.
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sknebel keeping it unread is (just don't mark it), un-marking it isn't
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pstuifzand Monocle marks items as read automatically
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sknebel yeah, but that's unrelated to the protocol
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pstuifzand yes
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pstuifzand the microsub server could keep a channel unread by default
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pstuifzand or the client could not mark items as read
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pstuifzand it's useful to make this possible
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pstuifzand there is quite a bit of freedom to make this work
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pstuifzand my server removes all read items from the channel
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pstuifzand and the first items in the channel is the first items you see
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pstuifzand but it could be made so that you can move back in the channel to see the previously read items
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[sebsel] [grantcodes] I saw that! But I actually really like that functionality and want to keep it like that. I just want some sort of mechanism to keep a ‘read later’-list, which is not really supported at the moment :)
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[kevinmarks] My podcast player has a listened to list, which is handy
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sknebel [sebsel]: well, you could create "want to read" posts on your site and subscribe to that feed ;)
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sknebel (I'll have to figure something in that regard out too. my current reader allows to like/star posts, I'm not sure I want to convert those to full posts on my site
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KartikPrabhu what is fragmention?
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Loqi A fragmention is an extension to URL syntax that links and cites a phrase within a document by using a URL fragment consisting of the phrase itself, including whitespace https://indieweb.org/fragmention
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc" (view diff)
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[sebsel] Yeah maybe it’s more a separate service, bookmarking and reading things later. But it feels related to the Reader to me, and I would like to integrate it anyway
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sknebel yeah, certainly related. question is if it makes sense to go through your main micropub endpoint through that (which seems to be the current direction) or if another path makes more sense
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tantek.com created /⛰️ (+18) "summit!" (view diff)
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snarfed hey jmac it looks like you're refetching all of your bridgy webmentions right now? intentional?
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jmac uhhhh
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jmac let's say no
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snarfed many thousands so far 😂
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jmac I think I know what's going on though, and I bet I have done it a bunch earlier and you didn't happen to notice. :) Known Issue, will fix
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jmac whoa, what
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snarfed totally fine, just figured you might want to know
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jmac Thanks. I expect it's stopped now, just a few bursts earlier.
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snarfed np!
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jmac I didn't think of the fact that this bug leans hard on poor Bridgy every time it's triggered, but of course it does. OK! Back to work.
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tantek snarfed, pardon the non-dev interruption, are you going to 2018-06-13 dweb meetup at IA?
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snarfed tantek: no
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snarfed i'll probably go to the actual big dweb event; this is a smaller thing
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snarfed (afaik)
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jmac is fixing every GDPR problem in the world this week for clients and might not be able to fix his indieweb stuff very quickly
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tantek snarfed, I'm guessing this smaller thing is a way to get your demo reviewed and likely invited to speak at the actual big dweb event
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tantek snarfed, perhaps consider giving a small talk on IndieMap and Bridgy analysis and stats as one view of the distributed web?
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snarfed hmm, maybe!
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+3089) "cluster see alsos into new subsections of a Criticism section, new descriptions section, add GDPR conflict" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] GDPR << Charlie Stross's GDPR statement for his indie site: https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/05/gdpr-compliance-notice.html
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Loqi ok, I added "Charlie Stross's GDPR statement for his indie site: https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/05/gdpr-compliance-notice.html" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47871&oldid=47733
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Loqi [Charlie Stross] GDPR compliance notice By Charlie Stross
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tantek.com edited /GDPR (+66) "see also violates GDPR" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] See also this comment by stross http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2018/05/gdpr-compliance-notice.html#comment-2046403
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tantek_ GDPR << https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/21/gdpr-emails-mostly-unnecessary-and-in-some-cases-illegal-say-experts
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/21/gdpr-emails-mostly-unnecessary-and-in-some-cases-illegal-say-experts" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47873&oldid=47872
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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tantek I know right?
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KartikPrabhu this whole thing is so weird. there seems to be no agreement on what to do
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tantek sounds like good business for lawers and consultants
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu and head aches for others
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+1391) "/* Overhyped */ good Forbes article with analysis and examples" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] The law has been written based on principles, with the expectation of case law making it more concrete
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KartikPrabhu uh oh
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+1549) "/* Violates GDPR */ and HIPAA too apparently for medical applications" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+835) "/* Violates GDPR */ PICOPS killed due to GDPR" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+70) "/* Violates GDPR */ since actual instance of blockchain death by GDPR, changing heading to be more explicit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (-1) "/* Killed and being killed by GDPR */ or" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+784) "/* Killed or being killed by GDPR */ Can blockchain’s immutability survive GDPR’s right to be forgotten?" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+520) "/* Killed or being killed by GDPR */ wow this just happened today (actual blockchain death by GDPR)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+362) "/* Killed or being killed by GDPR */ better source of PICOPS death with direct links to more citations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+299) "/* Killed or being killed by GDPR */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /blockchain (+4) "/* Killed or being killed by GDPR */ linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /content_management_system (+15) "relevant tweet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /own_your_data (-69) "emojicon" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /own_your_data (-1) "move TOC down" (view diff)