#dev 2018-05-27

2018-05-27 UTC
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aaronpk the version of this that could work as an API would be where I could add it as an alternate destination in my site configuration, so that monocle would see it as an alternative account and all the normal micropub tools would work with it
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[cleverdevil] If I were to build it, I'd make it a Micropub-like API endpoint, but you'd pass along additional properties for scheduling
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[cleverdevil] Exactly
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[cleverdevil] You'd just pass an endpoint and a datetime to publish.
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aaronpk and an access token
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[cleverdevil] I'd just accept whatever token you passed in for the original request.
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aaronpk oh yeah just use that
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[cleverdevil] Capture the Bearer token, and cache it.
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[cleverdevil] It would just be a little Lambda.
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aaronpk have you seen how the micropub destination thing works?
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[cleverdevil] Nope.
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Destination
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aaronpk and https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/3
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Loqi [aaronpk] #3 mp-destination command should use `destination` in the config
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[cleverdevil] Cool, I'll take a look. Hopefully I'll have some time to tinker around on it this weekend.
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[cleverdevil] GWG: hope you're enjoying!
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aaronpk so on my end, I would add the proxy as one of the destinations that my micropub endpoint returns, then it would show up as another account in monocle https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-05-26-17-03-18-524a6fC5Iy.jpg
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[cleverdevil] Its been super fun to have clevercast.
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GWG I am looking at feeds
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aaronpk I guess I could also add scheduling to quill pretty easily
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aaronpk not as cool tho
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+35) "fix date (per https://twitter.com/adactio/status/963868381215674368) for adactio talk, building blocks" (view diff)
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[grantcodes] Re: scheduling. I actually support it on my site. The client just needs to send a published date in the future
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[grantcodes] (which almost no client does)
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[grantcodes] All it really does is intercept the request and check for the published date. If it's in the future it will cancel the request and send it at the published time
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+109) "/* Berlin */ interested in participating, looking into venue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+10) "/* How to wean yourself from */ sublist" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+0) "/* How to wean yourself from */ 4+ months not checking notifications! (I know, kinda nuts)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+7) "clarify was only off the site for a week, and somehow that helped spur not checking notifications since" (view diff)
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tantek_ wonders if aaronpk supports receiving and displaying reacji
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tantek_ decides to find out empirically
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tantek_ Hmm I need to update https://indieweb.org/Twitter#original_lacks_POSSE_tweet for reacji in reply to posts without tweet equivalents
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dansup what is reacji?
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Loqi reacji is an emoji reaction, the use of a single emoji character in response to a post, introduced as a feature by Slack[1] https://indieweb.org/reacji
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dansup what is federated emoji
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "federated emoji" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "federated emoji is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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dansup federated emoji is a means to represent a custom set of emoji as defined by the ActivityPub protocol.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /federated_emoji (+128) "prompted by dansup and dfn added by dansup" (view diff)
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dansup I can update that article later!
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dansup thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome, dansup
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snarfed interesting. something seems broken somewhere deep in the internet. DNS is flaky or down for a swath of nameservers and TLDs, but only some, and only between some ASes. can't resolve many hostnames from my home or pair.com, but can from AWS and stanford. nameservers on gandi.net, among others.
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snarfed here are bridgy external monitoring probes. looks like one fiber cut or network partition or around 9:25pm, then another just after 9:45. https://snarfed.org/outage.png
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snarfed aha. ddos in europe, gandi one of the primary targets. https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=gandi+ddos
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[jeremycherfas] That was the point of asking him to document. I can’t actually read the image on my phone and will reply when I can.
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Loqi [jeremycherfas]: aaronpk left you a message 10 hours, 59 minutes ago: that sounds like a change in Known, probably worth asking about any recent changes to photo posts or the micropub integration
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jeremycherfas Yeah. I'll do that.
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], just saw your post. Is there any reason you will be writing documentation for the adding of mf2, rather than sending a PR to the theme? (Or maybe you are doing both?)
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat, both, almost all chnages could be done in customizer and custom menus, but you need to add rel="me" in theme editor
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[jgmac1106] You also have to add the CSS Classes (optional) Link Relationship (XFN) in screen options so people can add =u-url and rel=me to links, so people will need instruction but will be README.md update
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[jgmac1106] I am just beginning to think that instead of trying to build and maintain a plug-in palace we should raise forking armies to invade other WordPress nations, maybe more stable that way...but that is just a thought now
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sknebel I mean, the majority of the plugins does things outside the themes
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GWG aaronpk: For indielogin, is it the same token endpoint?
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aaronpk There is no token endpoint since it's not IndieAuth
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GWG aaronpk: Good point. And how do I get client_ids whitelisted then?
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aaronpk I'm eventually going to make a registration form, but it's hard coded in the config file for now.
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aaronpk What are you trying to do?
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tantek !tell dansup is there a link describing more about federated emoji, especially a connection to the indieweb? otherwise it looks like a made-up concept though a little web search I found this: https://quitter.es/notice/5092976
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [⑨ laín ⑨] A kind (of) writer
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tantek also found https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/5107
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Loqi [akihikodaki] #5107 Custom emoji for long-run
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aaronpk I heard mastodon just launched the ability for custom emoji to work across instances
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tantek I'm kinda curious how that solved that particular distributed "naming" problem since anyone can make-up :catmoji: and make it look like a dog for example
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aaronpk It's a one-way relationship tho
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aaronpk so really more like allowing <img> tags with small images in posts
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sknebel weren't there long discussions in w3c #social about those last year too?
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aaronpk Yea
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snarfed tackling the hard problems!
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GWG aaronpk: You suggested I add it to the IndieAuth plugin. I may have misunderstood
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tantek snarfed lol
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tantek I suppose :textwithoutspace: is now microsyntax for "replace with appropriate image if any" ?
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tantek might as well add it to /Markdown, you know if Markdown was actually evolved according to real world plain text behaviors like it claims to be :)
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tantek I'll wait til dansup returns to explain what is actually "federated" about it vs. just declaring :something: to be an explicitly supported microsyntax
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loqi.me created /tracking_protection (+25) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronpk GWG: I was likely talking about using it for the use case of signing in to WordPress without a password, but not til I open it up for signups
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tantek.com edited /Do_Not_Track (+777) "Articles, note Firefox Private Browsing blocks sites that fail to obey Do Not Track (cite, quote)" (view diff)
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aaronpk I don't understand how these spam pingbacks keep getting through
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aaronpk ironically I was just reading jeremycherfas' reply to phoneboy's post about "webmention spam" (it's probably not webmention spam), and then the next post in my reader was spam too
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-05-27-08-19-05-8UlFaRTxJe.jpg
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GWG aaronpk: That reply was what made me wonder if I should do a pingback/trackback project
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aaronpk what sort of project?
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Zegnat Federated Emoji sounds a little like how I am see Twitch emotes pop up everywhere, including within my Discord chats.
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tantek aaronpk where are you seeing these spam pingbacks?
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GWG aaronpk: Three WP versions ago, I convinced them to add a hook to take complete control of trackbacks. There was already a way to take over pingback processing. I wanted to write a single file handler that did both
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aaronpk tantek: they get sent to the wiki (to webmention.io), and then they show up in monocle because I have a thing that sends them there from webmention.io
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GWG Basically, since WordPress doesn't care about fixing that code because it isn't Gutenberg branded, just write a plugin to do it
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jeremycherfas !tell aaronpk I deeply resent that "too". 😂
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk did you hear back from him about that yet?
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aaronpk I see "comments are closed" on that post, so not sure if your reply got through
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tantek lol jeremycherfas
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jeremycherfas Well, he posted that screenshot, which made it clear to me that he doesn't actually know the difference between "ordinary" comments and webmentions, as I pointed out. Also showed him the column in Comments on WP that shows what kind of comment it is. No response yet, but others seem to have been happy with my posts.
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jeremycherfas He's in Seattle area, and has been travelling for a few days, so may not be up yet.
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jeremycherfas I OSSEd to m.b too, so no excuse to ignore it, really.
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sknebel Zegnat: yeah, I think Twitch & in extension gaming communities play a large role in the current popularity of custom emoji (although they were a thing in the forums of old too, both from external sources and forum-specific ones, although not called Emoji back then)
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Zegnat Not to forget, MSN had it too
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sknebel k, never used it
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Zegnat sknebel: http://www.sherv.net/MSN-Info/Custom-MSN-Emoticons/Custom-MSN-Emoticons.html
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Zegnat I love it when I can find a tutorial from 2003 for this :P
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jeremycherfas !tell aaronpk not much of reply https://micro.blog/PhoneBoy/597410
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [PhoneBoy] @jeremycherfas I hadn’t enabled Akismet because they wanted more money than I currently pay to host my Wordpress site. Now that I see you can name a price of zero, I'm in.
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aaronpk lol
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jeremycherfas I didn't expect much more, to be honest.
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dgold don;t be so downheartened, jeremycherfas, I'm sure he'll find something else in #indieweb ecosystem to insult and traduce next week.
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jeremycherfas You've perked me up no end. Thank you.
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tantek wow what happened?
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aaronpk phoneboy thinks he's been getting webmention spam
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jeremycherfas No biggie. Just a little thing of no consequence.
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jeremycherfas See my post here about an hour ago.
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/PhoneBoy/status/1000449690163339264
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@PhoneBoy These are the kinds of "comments" I am getting as webmentions @jeremycherfas. By settings, I mean "what settings will block these comments but allow the good ones." May have to take a whitelist approach. https://microblog.phoneboy.com/2018/05/26/1247/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeJPsOgUQAAEBtv.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1000449690163339264)
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jeremycherfas -> #chat
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tantek ok
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@EatPodcast ↩️ As you cross posted here, I feel duty bound to link to my original reply to you. https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/2018-05-27 Just in case anyone comes searching for "webmention spam" and finds your mistaken tweet. (twitter.com/_/status/1000788746009284610)
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KartikPrabhu !tell [snarfed]: let me know you thoughts on this https://github.com/microformats/mf2py/issues/83#issuecomment-391893020 else I have a new PR for mf2py
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [kartikprabhu] Should implied photo also have the `alt` value? cc: @snarfed Example: ```html <article class="h-entry"> <span class="p-name">name</span> <img src="/photo.jpg" alt="alt" /> </article> ```
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tantek I'm kinda thinking it should
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tantek I should comment on that
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KartikPrabhu go for it
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KartikPrabhu I only pinged snarfed because he had a bridgy use-case
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tantek did we already agree on handling "alt" in general on images?
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tantek I thought there was a separate issue on that
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Loqi agreed.
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tantek for microformats2 parsing
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KartikPrabhu I used snarfed's proposal in that issue
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KartikPrabhu under an experimental flag
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tantek where is the microformats2-parsing issue?
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tantek I don't see anything linked from https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/56
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Loqi [kartikprabhu] #56 include img alt text in photo property
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tantek uh why do these have the same issue name?
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tantek https://github.com/microformats/mf2py/issues/83
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Loqi [snarfed] #83 include img alt text in photo property
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KartikPrabhu well because snarfed told me not make duplicate issues :P
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tantek huh?
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KartikPrabhu the main repo has a pretty disorganised issue list for me to work on
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tantek there should be a mf2 parsing issue before you start prototyping something!
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tantek and then all the prototype / specific parser implementation issues should link to the mf2-parser issue that they're prototyping
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KartikPrabhu well no one who had a use-case did this so <ahrug>
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tantek found it https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2
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Loqi [aaronpk] #2 image alt text is lost during parsing
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tantek use-cases in there
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KartikPrabhu ok then I implemented the proposal I made towards the end :P
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KartikPrabhu which is not in implied parsing
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tantek ironically your example *did* assume implied parsing: https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2#issuecomment-247487642
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Loqi [kartikprabhu] @tantek Consider the following example ``` html <div class="h-entry"> <p class="p-name e-content"><span>Hello World</span></p> <img class="u-photo" src="globe.gif" alt="spinning globe animation"> </div> ``` which under the new rules would give ...
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KartikPrabhu no that is explicit u-photo
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KartikPrabhu no implied photo
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tantek oh right
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tantek ok I had not seen the discussion on that issue since this year
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jmac Regarding https://indieweb.org/Webmention-developer#How_to_implement_sending: Am I reading correctly that "link", here, means specifically a hyperlink (usually an href of an <a> tag) and not, say, a URL hanging out in the readable text of the page for whatever reason?
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KartikPrabhu jmac: yes
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jmac I guess what I'm really asking is: Is there an algorithm for "fetch a list of all the links of an outgoing post", or is it just "hoover up all the hrefs an you're done"
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Zegnat jmac, there isn’t a fixed algorithm. https://github.com/Zegnat/php-linkextractor was my go at it
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Loqi [Zegnat] php-linkextractor: Class for finding all resources an HTML document links to.
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jmac Oh, I hadn't thought to see if there's a library for this
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Zegnat Imperfect lib. I need to get back to it at some point. Might get you started though :)
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Zegnat PRs are welcome, if you don’t do PHP, make it issues instead.
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KartikPrabhu jmac: "collect all the href" sounds fine
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Zegnat That will cover most obvious (and understood) cases, for sure
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jmac I'm working from Perl for this project, and I have an HTML parser that makes rudely pulling out all the hrefs trivial, so I'll start there.
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jmac Confidental to Zegnat: I spent much of this morning hitting my project with a UTF-8 wrench until it rendered all the letters of your name (from a webmention you sent three weeks ago) correctly.
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jmac So thanks for that.
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dgold you needed utf8 for martijnvdeV?
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Zegnat Did I send something weird? Wouldn’t be the first time, of course.
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jmac That ij glyph turns into some primo mojibake if you don't care about proper text encoding
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Zegnat Oh, hahahahaha
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Loqi awesome
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jmac By "you" I mean "me"
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Zegnat Where did I use that? :P
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jmac In your first name?
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Zegnat Yes, but not in my h-card on vanderven.se, I think
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Zegnat So I am trying to recall the source you were parsing
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jmac Oh, huh. Well, lemme look
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Zegnat I do sometimes slip that in, when I am feeling adventurous. I also use that glyph on Facebook, to the annoyance of all my friends who see me disappear from search results after hitting `i` on their keyboards
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Zegnat dgold, you need utf8 when martijn is a 6-letter name
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jmac Mighta been via Twitter+Bridgy?
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jmac Either way, I am unironically thankful for the challenge; my software is better now
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Zegnat Ah, yes, I think I use it on Twitter :)
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Zegnat I am always happy to break other people’s projects, haha.
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Zegnat jmac++ for rendering my name
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Loqi jmac has 4 karma in this channel (11 overall)
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dgold oh, that means my site is properly utf8 then
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jmac There were any number of Kürts and Thomáses and so on it was also getting wrong, I just happened to grab a webmention from you for my workbench
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dgold because I has the ij properly rendered from your tweet at mullvadnet
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Zegnat Yep, must mean you have it right then, dgold
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Zegnat is now brooding to send jmac a webmention from licit.li just to see if that’ll open up a new rabbit hole
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dgold Where do you know Thomáses from jmac
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jmac I confess I was just using that name as a placeholder. I see there actually is a Khürt among my recent received webmentions, so sorry if that's you and I spelled it wrong just now :-)
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jmac It seems more true now than ever that one knows that one's software has started working with real-world data when it suddenly starts throwing character-encoding errors every which way. (This may be more true for lazy and insulated American hackers like me though.)
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dgold ah, ok
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dgold just that irish-language Tomás doesn't take an aitch
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dgold or seimhú to give it the correct nomenclature
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jmac Well, when the Irish start sending me mentions, I'll be ready
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dgold dearly wishes the irish hadn't abandoned their traditional orthography
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dgold ḃ ċ ḋ ḟ ġ ṁ ṗ ṡ ṫ
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dgold all just became bh ch dh fh gh mh ph sh th
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GWG I missed Irish talk?
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Zegnat We moved language talk to #indieweb-chat
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GWG Can someone tell me if Quill is working for them today?
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KartikPrabhu i can sign in
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[miklb] publishing is the question
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Zegnat I think Quill has worked with https://sink.zegnat.net/ if you want to test that, GWG
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Zegnat Just passed 00:00 here and I am heading for bed, so can’t try myself right now
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GWG Same results
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GWG I think Quill is broken
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[miklb] aaronpk++ for micropub.rocks
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Loqi aaronpk has 145 karma in this channel (1638 overall)
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aaronpk GWG you can always try quill with micropub.rocks
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GWG aaronpk: I will. But I'm not getting an email login
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GWG I just asked for one
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aaronpk checks logs
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GWG There it is
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GWG Just showed up. Odd delay
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aaronpk yea sometimes it takes a while
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[miklb] aaronpk check #wordpress if you haven’t
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GWG But the link is expired
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aaronpk oh dear
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[miklb] I was able to pass 100 with Quill & micropub.rocks
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GWG I tried with my site and Zegnat's sink site
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GWG It is letting me in now
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aaronpk the link should work for 30 minutes
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aaronpk quill sends the access token in both the header and the form body for most of the posts btw
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GWG Quill just failed with the Micropub.rocks test for me
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aaronpk which one?
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GWG Just the basic post test
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GWG It just refreshes the note editor
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GWG Same as with my site.
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GWG Nothing in my site logs showing a request
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aaronpk can you try a hard refresh of quill? maybe you have old JS
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aaronpk everything works fine for me
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aaronpk just tried with micropub.rocks
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GWG Odd
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[miklb] is there a way to do a hard refresh in iOS Safari?
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[tantek] Hold down the refresh icon I think
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[miklb] tried that, asks to request desktop version
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[miklb] though it seems to have worked
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[miklb] Quill in iOS isn’t loading my syndictate-to targets, in Safari/FF they load.
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dansup tantek_: I saw your message, what were you referring to?
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Loqi dansup: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 1 minute ago: is there a link describing more about federated emoji, especially a connection to the indieweb? otherwise it looks like a made-up concept though a little web search I found this: https://quitter.es/notice/5092976
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tantek_ dansup the new federated emoji page - was wondering if it's anything more than custom emoji which appears to be more about a microsyntax than any kind of federation protocol