#dev 2018-06-13

2018-06-13 UTC
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GWG So, what is everyone working on tonight?
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aaronpk Trying to get the city of Portland to pass some zoning changes. It's real world standards development. I think I like the web standards process better.
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aaronpk Next i have to work on my 60-second lightning talk for tomorrow's dweb meetup
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aaronpk 60 seconds is not a lot
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GWG aaronpk, good luck
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KartikPrabhu wow! I have trouble doing 10min talks!
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aaronpk I just did a 1.5 minute talk at the city I guess
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GWG I teach. Just give me the topic and I can talk as long as needed.
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aaronpk But can you talk as short as needed? That's the challenge
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GWG aaronpk: It is. But I can try
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jgmac1106 sixty second lightning talk sounds like an amazing challenge. I love improv but would have to practice
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jgmac1106 drawing up sketches and thinking about the UI that would be needed to spit out the course and syllabus templates I want. Hope to have the templates done for summit but thinking about future more fun then fixing present
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jgmac1106 than*
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@jgmac1106 Started to POSSE to Mastodon as well as Twitter, shame webmentions don’t work, but have to respect a communities values on privacy, especially when you disagree. (https://jgregorymcverry.com/3516-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1006723756021207041)
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@prdpXbot IndieAuth https://www.w3.org/TR/indieauth/ (twitter.com/_/status/1006793311829594113)
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j4y_funabashi grantcodes++ for PhotoPostr
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Loqi grantcodes has 15 karma in this channel (21 overall)
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j4y_funabashi grantcodes: I got json posts working on my micropub endpoint yesterday so I could start creating albums
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j4y_funabashi grantcodes: I need to change a few more pieces on my end to get it all working, the photos + album come through fine but I need to expand the child urls into objects and render them nicely
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[grantcodes] Nice one j4y_funabashi
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[grantcodes] You might be the only other person to have used it 😜
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[grantcodes] But good to know it works for you too
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[grantcodes] Probably needs some work though, so let me know if you have any ideas
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j4y_funabashi [grantcodes]: main thing I have noticed so far is that I dont usually have names on my photo posts
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j4y_funabashi [grantcodes]: do you expand the children urls to post objects before saving to storage or as an async process?
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vanderven.se martijn edited /on_this_day (+296) "/* Facebook */ On This Day is now part of Memories." (view diff)
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j4y_funabashi I suppose that is a question for everyone, I want my micropub endpoint to 'enhance' some post properties (link-previews, geo urls to locality etc), I am thinking that I will do it as async micropub updates after the post is created but just wondering how others do it?
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[grantcodes] I do it dynamically
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j4y_funabashi oh ok so you expand on every request?
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schmarty j4y_funabashi: My static site build process is triggered by a git hook which finds files that are new or changed. Before building, those are processed for things like URLs that need link previews.
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schmarty I don’t keep the expanded data in git, so it’s like a build-side cache.
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[grantcodes] Mine depends. External links I will grab and store in the database. Internal stuff like collections are compiled on every request that includes a collection
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skippy ahouy hoy.
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jgmac1106 [schmarty] this is what I want to do with my syllabus and course tempaltes, since things like readings and objectives would be the same I would love to change the data in git and then have it populate both pages
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schmarty jgmac1106: depending on your needs, it may be that reusable snippets would be useful? E.g. store the reusable pieces separately and use a mechanism to include their content in the readings or objectives pages.
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jgmac1106 cool, gonna talk about it at vHWC-Europe today, I want my students to learn basic html as part of instructional design but a UI for SSG would be pretty simple..I don’t hvae the time to learn but others want to help paint the fence
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jgmac1106 I just am trying to get my templates ready for Summit need to go back and redo my holygrail css grid, I totally messed that up, but now have a better understanding
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jgmac1106 I was asking yesterday but if I wanted to add h-event to http://syllabus.glitch.me/#schedule would I need to rethink my design so the events aren’t cut across a grid? Can you have more than one h-event per page or does that mess up everything?
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sknebel I'll quote what I said yesterday ;)
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sknebel [12:10:30] <sknebel> yeah, that's currently an issue with grids. in your case, you might be able to work around it with display: contents, which allows you to wrap grid-elements in a wrapper that gets ignored by grid
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jgmac1106 [sknebel] sorry I missed the help yesterday, should have checked logs first before reposting
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sknebel no problem, happens easily
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[grantcodes] Wait, what's the issue with css grid jgmac1106 ? Trying to have items cover multiple columns / rows of the grid?
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jgmac1106 yeah, wanted to add h-events in the syllabus schedule, each event is in its own grid row but in the html…can’t figure out. Watching video on display: content now
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jgmac1106 here is the html as is: https://github.com/jgmac1106/mf2syllabus/blob/master/index.html
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jgmac1106 153-160 would be in the event, you know what I think I maybe alright, they grid cells still will be sequential
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aaronpk j4y_funabashi: my site does that kind of stuff as an update after the post is created. So when I post a reply, i can refresh the page a few times before it eventually looks like the full reply context you see on existing posts
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[kevinmarks] hm. That would be easier with <table> certainly
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[schmarty] oh yeah. tables are cool for tabular data. 😂
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[kevinmarks] or you could do a flexbox per row, that will give you a container to put the h-* thing on
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[kevinmarks] tricky problem. Maybe tantek knows of a grid workaround.
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j4y_funabashi aaronpk: yeah I am leaning towards that too, means I need implement updates but that was on the list anyway
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aaronpk fwiw mine does it with internal updates, not micropub updates
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] taking your citation builder idea and sketching out an entire SSG app, not that I could build it but I like thinking of these things: https://jgregorymcverry.com/can-we-build-a-static-site-generator-for-indieweb/ https://t.co/NgbNwEypxp
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skippy nice writeup jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 thx, much easier to think up and tranlstae sketches into html and css than build it though, always easy to ask for the moon when thinking about features
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skippy less is more.
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skippy make it as simple as possible, and no simpler.
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jgmac1106 yes complex simplicity is my goal always
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jgmac1106 I also think learning works best when it is a simple as possible, an no simpler so the design paradigm fits my teaching
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petermolnar jgmac1192: the short answer to the title is 'no'. The longer answer is not without external, dynamic services to accept the incoming data. On the other hand, to just get started with a site, yes, of course. I've been lamenting desktop tools like Microsoft Frontpage and Macromedia Dreamweaver for a while; they were very simple to use, and with a few clicks it was possible to upload the generated site to and FTP server. I'd very much
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petermolnar like to see similar, offline-capable application again, but it's unlikely
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petermolnar that they'll happen.
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petermolnar as for all the indieweb features, there's a middle ground: flat file CMS, like Grav. It doesn't have tricky dependencies, say, databases, but they don't lack the dynamic features.
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petermolnar there were some Grav indieweb plugin developments around, weren't there?
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petermolnar eh, names, so this is for jgmac1106
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[kevinmarks] that design does seem to want a database-like something involved as it is creating a lot of reusable bits
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petermolnar this is when asking the question if sqlite is a database or not
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jeremycherfas There are some good indieweb things for Grav, but the main developer seems to have stopped working on them. I have incoming webmentions, thanks to voxpelli's app, and I am slowly working on a simple micropub server.
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petermolnar there's also someone on Kirby, right?
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skippy Hugo + Micropub works, too
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[kevinmarks] you could do it with Hugo, with some structure set up first, yes.
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jeremycherfas A woman who is active on micro.pub and the Grav slack has built her own micropub endpoint already, but not shared as far as I know. I also want to use this to learn.
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petermolnar oh, this thing looks very simple to start a website with: https://www.wondercms.com/
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[cleverdevil] I still hold out hope for a long term answer using Lambda + S3 to make a extremely cheap and easy to manage IndieWeb CMS.
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[cleverdevil] Self hosting without management.
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GWG Morning
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petermolnar that wondercms has a frontend editor with an interface looks surprisingly like WordPress' Gutenberg is planning to be
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[kevinmarks] https://mavo.io/ might work for jgmac's use case
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@petermolnar ↩️ I'd start here: https://www.wondercms.com/ - simple, frontend editor based, flat file CMS. Not static, but that means it could integrate Webmentions, Micropub, etc, which is not possible with static sites without external services. (twitter.com/_/status/1006920468010586117)
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GWG aaronpk, how is Indielogin going for my use case?
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aaronpk I haven't had time to work on that yet
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GWG No problem, just saw the Indieauth depreciation notice
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Zegnat petermolnar: sebsel is on Kirby, though he is developing on Laravel now, I think
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[kevinmarks] this mavo demo looks a bit like what you want https://mavo.io/demos/talks/
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[kevinmarks] that was for [jgmac1106] jgmac1106
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jeremycherfas !tell gRegorLove indiebookclub is terrific. Thanks. Any chance of being able to add tags? Or even set a single default tag.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegorLove Thanks! Yeah, there's a feature request for that. I'm thinking I'll add a setting so you can select a default tag to go with your posts, and of course you can edit it for each post. https://github.com/gRegorLove/indiebookclub/issues/6
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Loqi gRegorLove: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 minute ago: indiebookclub is terrific. Thanks. Any chance of being able to add tags? Or even set a single default tag.
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Loqi [jackjamieson2] #6 Feature requests: Additional fields for notes/comments, permalink, DOI
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jeremycherfas Thanks jackjami_
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schmarty ancarda: here's my publishing webhook i use for my site: https://git.schmarty.net/schmarty/ssg-hook-publisher-php
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ancarda Thanks schmarty
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gRegorLove Academic and/or microformat peeps: If a /read had a DOI, should that be the uid of the h-cite or a different property? Should it be just the DOI name or the full URL on doi.org?
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gRegorLove What is DOI?
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Loqi DOI is an abbreviation for Digital Object Identifier, "a character string used to uniquely identify an object such as an electronic document[1]", kind of like a URL with more bureaucracy https://indieweb.org/DOI
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gRegorLove Ha
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Zegnat Don’t do DOIs have a doi: scheme? I’d definitely use that.
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KartikPrabhu backs away from the academic-microformats rabbit hole
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gRegorLove I don't know much about DOI. So `<a href="doi:abcd/1234" class="u-uid">`?
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KartikPrabhu that won't be a clickable link ?
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KartikPrabhu or it won't do anything on click
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jackjamieson If it's a link I think it would have to be to doi.org to be clickable
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu putting non-link things in a <a> is pretty bad
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KartikPrabhu or any other DOI resolver
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gRegorLove Right, bad example. The element isn't what I'm questioning, just the expected mf vocab for it in a micropub post, and ideally an example of it published.
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jackjamieson Alternatively, could treat the DOI the same as ISBN, so it would be up to the website to decide what to do with it
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Zegnat yeah, not sure I would href="" it. I am also trying to remember if the uid is supposed to be unique for the h-cite object, or for the thing the h-cite is expressing (i.e. the article)
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Zegnat but a uid of doi:abcd/1234 makes sense to me. I’d almost want to see isbn:1234 as well.
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Zegnat s/want/like/
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Zegnat jackjamieson: `curl -vvv https://jgregorymcverry.com/` if you want to test from the server. The -vvv should give you very verbose logging, so you can see in case the server just drops the connection
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Loqi Author Greg McVerry
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jackjamieson Thanks Zegnat, I'm not sure I have ssh access on my hosting account but I'll see
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gRegorLove How's this jackjamieson, Zegnat? http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20180613175026861
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Zegnat Makes sense to me!
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Zegnat uid gets to be a URI “that uniquely/canonically identifies the cited work”. So doi:* sounds good :D
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gRegorLove I'm thinking I'll make a setting so you can enable the DOI field (disabled by default).
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KartikPrabhu why a setting? If it is blank then it is "unset"
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gRegorLove Mostly to avoid cluttering up the posting UI for people not using it. I'm not set on it, just thinking it through.
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Zegnat Have some sort of JS to let people switch the ISBN field to doi/possible future formats?
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aaronpk I had no idea DOIs were for books. I would have thought ISBN
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KartikPrabhu depends on if the DOI has been "registered"
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aaronpk So someone set up a new registry for things so they can get paid to register things?
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KartikPrabhu isn't that how most registries are
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snarfed mmm rent seeking
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove "Who registers the registrars?"
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snarfed icann, obvs
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gRegorLove Can you? ;)
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KartikPrabhu "Hi this is a registry for registrars. Please fill this form to register"
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jackjamieson gRegorLove, I think that looks good!
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Zegnat Sorry, you have to be registered to talk to Zegnat. Please fill out this form.
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skippy signs up as Zegnat
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jeremycherfas DOIs can be for anything. My colleagues are trying to promote them for seed samples in a genebank.
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KartikPrabhu jeremycherfas: I thought DOI = Document Object Identifier not Object Object Identifier
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sknebel KartikPrabhu: a seed is just a weird encoding for a document describing how to make a plant? ;)
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KartikPrabhu lol
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skippy given that seeds predate human-created document formats, doesn't it make it a more canonical representation, than a weird one? ;)
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KartikPrabhu good time for -> #indiechat
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KartikPrabhu oop -> #indieweb-chat
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[jgmac1106] Thx @kevinmarks
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Zegnat gRegorLove, thing I learned today, if you want to stay really on-point, it should be info:doi/10.1109/5.771073 . info URIs based on RFC 4452. (That RFC appoint yet another registry for info URIs :P)
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gRegorLove Oof
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Zegnat We heard you like registries so your registry can register for a URI at another registry!
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Zegnat Except the info registry seems to be currently unavailable for inspection, so no idea who else is registered
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gRegorLove Maybe I'll leave it to the user to enter the URI so I don't have to keep up with all that :) (mostly kidding)
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Zegnat doi does state this, I think on their FAQ, as their URI. Wikipedia also confirms it.
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Zegnat OCLC is running the registry (cf. https://www.oclc.org/research/themes/data-science/infouri.html) but the actual registry is currently unavailable: http://info-uri.info/
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Zegnat Now that all of that is part of the public record in the chat logs, I can drag myself out of the rabbit hole
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www.boffosocko.com edited /exercise (+216) "John Johnson walks with maps" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas !tell KartikPrabhu I thought it was a Digital Object Identifier. Which ought to have a hyphen between O-I.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas Sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 37 karma in this channel (102 overall)
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KartikPrabhu what is DOI?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: jeremycherfas left you a message 6 minutes ago: I thought it was a Digital Object Identifier. Which ought to have a hyphen between O-I.
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Loqi DOI is an abbreviation for Digital Object Identifier, "a character string used to uniquely identify an object such as an electronic document[1]", kind of like a URL with more bureaucracy https://indieweb.org/DOI
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KartikPrabhu oh! yeah it is "Digital" oops
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[kevinmarks] Deliberately Obtuse Indentifier
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skippy Do any micropub authoring tools support an API? Rather than build in full micropub functionality to something like Miniflux, could Miniflux simply send a URL to a micropub client, allowing the user to then choose what to do with said link, sending it on to their micropub endpoint?
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aaronpk quill kind of does that
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aaronpk with replies and bookmarks
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aaronpk I think a couple others do too. Woodwind had a configuration option to set the URL pattern to use for that kind of thing
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skippy i'm about to open an issue on miniflux asking for micropub support, when I realized what I was going ot ask for was a full micropub client implementation. That's sure to be rejected.
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skippy but if I could pass a URL to a full micropub client, that's less lift and more likely to get traction.
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aaronpk do we have docs or screenshots on how that worked with woodwind? basically copy that pattern
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aaronpk oh yeah Known does that too: https://indieweb.org/Woodwind#Configuration_for_Known
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aaronpk here's the woodwind settings screen for that feature https://indieweb.org/File:woodwind-settings-2015-02-09.png
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aaronpk is that the right idea?
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skippy yes, but ideally with an existing hosted micropub client. :)
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aaronpk don't request that they hard-code it to a particular micropub client, that kind of defeats the purpose. it'd be great if you could plug in your own URLs for it to your own micropub client of choice
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skippy I'd like to use MIniflux for my reader, and be able to repost and reply-to things i consume there. I realize this is what microsub does, too, but I'm not sold on any microsub readers just yet.
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skippy aaronpk: yes, a configurable place to POST URLs, and that place can present options on what to do (like, repost, reply, etc)
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aaronpk yeah that's basically the exact feature woodwind implemented
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GWG Was Miniflux the one that abandoned its codebase in favor of a new one?
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aaronpk I think quill supports most of those actions with a url pattern
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aaronpk does this pattern have its own wiki page? could you maybe start one if it doesn't?
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skippy GWG: yes, miniflux was originally PHP with PDO database connectors. Now it's Go with only PGSQL support.
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GWG That made me pull back
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skippy aaronpk: the URL patten requires the interface in Miniflux to present specific actions in order to send to the right URL. I'm thinking something even less fancy, and more manual.
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skippy Miniflux would simply say "Send to micropub" or similar, and POST the data to a client. That client then presents the options it knows about for micropub.
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skippy GWG yes, it was a big change. But I still like Miniflux overall
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aaronpk ah like a generic action then the micropub client decides what particular responses to show for it? interesting
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GWG skippy: I pulled back to see what happened. I considered trying it
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aaronpk I started doing something similar to that with quill but for editing posts
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aaronpk you throw a URL at it then it figures out what the post is and redirects to the appropriate interface
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skippy clever.
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aaronpk feel free to file a feature request for that on quill for responses tho
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skippy aaronpk: how can i open the original URL of an item in Monocole?
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skippy oh, the date.
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gRegorLove On a similar topic, I just filed an issue to add that sort of query parameter pre-populate for indiebookclub.
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gRegorLove That would make it easier to create a bookmarklet to "read this" from say an Amazon page and it fills in the info.
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gRegorLove Yeah, Miniflux switched languages
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gRegorLove what is miniflux?
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Loqi Miniflux is minimalist feed reader software https://indieweb.org/Miniflux
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aaronpk also I dunno, long-term I think all readers need to turn into "social readers", and micropub is a good way to support that
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aaronpk but I agree that's a harder issue to open on a github repo :)
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skippy nods.
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skippy i want very much to read my Tweet stream in a reader through which I can easily interact with Tweets and POSSE.
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skippy I haven't taken that plunge just yet, though.
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aaronpk it's so nice having that in monocle
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aaronpk granary++
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Loqi granary has 2 karma in this channel (5 overall)
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skippy it requires me to create sane lists of twitterers i follow, though, which is daunting. :/
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aaronpk or search terms
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martymcgui.re uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-baltimore-2018-06-13-attendees.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:hwc-baltimore-2018-06-13-attendees.jpg"
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aaronpk tbh it's way better than following my whole main timeline
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skippy how is monocle on mobile? havent tried yet
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aaronpk great! looks like a small version of the desktop
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skippy nice
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aaronpk the nav bar slides out from the side
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snarfed granary can follow your main feed too. doesn't require list or search
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skippy snarfed: sure, but if i'm going to make a change, i might as well make an effort to provide a little more clarity to what i read. my friends are too often drowned out by prolific retweeters like William Gibson.
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snarfed sure. i read (and maintain) a list too, maybe 1/4-1/5 of my followers. way better.
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skippy switching gears, aaronpk, is there an endpoint to aperture to trigger a feed refresh? or is beanstalk the only way?
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gRegorLove Hmm, inoreader is doing that whitespace collapsing around links in my Atom feed as well.
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gRegorLove I thought this was just a bug with Feedly, but guess not?
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aaronpk skippy: no way to trigger a refresh yet. I need to add that tho for sure. It'll take a bit to pass that up the chain.
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aaronpk gotta actually set the next poll time in the watchtower DB for that to work
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gRegorLove I send webpub, so I wonder if superfeedr is doing something to it.
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gRegorLove The Atom feed definitely has spaces around the links, just double-checked