#dev 2018-06-20

2018-06-20 UTC
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jgregorymcverry.com created /Installatron (+436) "prompted by tantek_" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com created /sftp (+318) "prompted by tantek_" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /projects (+360) "/* About This Page */ proposal: curating it to be specifically about: "Projects incubated by and also actively in use by the IndieWeb Community"" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu if someone understands the text flow in the CSS box model feel free to chime in https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/1009247926332411904 the relevant page is also indieweb-related https://practicaltypography.com/billionaires-typewriter.html#Luddite
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@kartik_prabhu @duetosymmetry @mbutterick The hanging quotes show up in @googlechrome but not in @firefox (see screenshot); not sure who is getting the box model text flow wrong. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgGRo-tU0AAXd_z.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1009247926332411904)
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Loqi aaronpk: [grantcodes] left you a message 11 hours, 41 minutes ago: I wouldn't be upset about that at all
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aaronpk snarfed: I managed to track down a weird bug in aperture where it wasn't removing the websub subscription after someone removed a subscription, so you should start seeing fewer requests to granary now that it's cleaning itself up better
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GWG gRegorLove: Clearing cookies worked this time, by the way.
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Zegnat actions based on such identification (for instance, to present different ads to different users, based on their profiles).</blockquote>
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Zegnat GDPR << It is not just cookies, GDPR is technology agnostic so [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/06/gdpr-and-browser-fingerprinting-how-it-changes-game-sneakiest-web-trackers any fingerprinting is covered]: <blockquote>under the GDPR “identification” does not require establishing a user’s identity. It is enough that an entity processing data can indirectly identify a user, based on pseudonymous data, in order to perform certain
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Loqi ok, I added "It is not just cookies, GDPR is technology agnostic so [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/06/gdpr-and-browser-fingerprinting-how-it-changes-game-sneakiest-web-trackers any fingerprinting is covered]: <blockquote>under the GDPR “identification” does not require establishing a user’s identity. It is enough that an entity processing data can indirectly identify a user, based on pseudonymous data, in order to perform certain" to the "See Also" section of /GDPR https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48867&oldid=48005
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Zegnat Darn, hit the IRC limit
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petermolnar so, css
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petermolnar when on the default, dark setting, all the hover does, is bottom border
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petermolnar ah
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petermolnar nothing
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petermolnar it's because I have an plain, old, a: after by activating the next stylesheet
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petermolnar ok, I get it
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Zegnat Yeah, its the style order. And the fact it uses currentColor for the icon
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petermolnar \!important for the save
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petermolnar even though I shouldn't be using that
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petermolnar btw, anyone know what the exact words of the cookie law are, it is literally only for cookies, or it involves localstorage as well?
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Zegnat I think that one isn’t an EU Regulation but a Directive, meaning all member states have to implement it into their own laws themselves. So it would vary by country?
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sknebel also local storage
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Zegnat I think this is the directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002L0058:en:HTML
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Zegnat It actually applies to “devices, for instance cookies” - that could easily include localStorage
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cweiske this is from 2002
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cweiske this is not the recent cookie guideline, that should be from ~2013 or so IIRC
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Zegnat Could be cweiske, this was just the original directive my searching came up with.
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cweiske ah. 2009
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cweiske german: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0136
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cweiske en: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0136
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cweiske there it is:
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cweiske "It is therefore of paramount importance that users be provided with clear and comprehensive information when engaging in any activity which could result in such storage or gaining of access."
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cweiske if you store data, you have to tell it - be it cookies or something else
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sknebel see also http://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2012/wp194_en.pdf for detailed arguments about different types
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cweiske coolio:
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cweiske Exceptions to the
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cweiske situations where the technical storage or access is strictly necessary
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cweiske obligation to provide information and offer the right to refuse should be limited to those
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cweiske so you don't need to tell about it if it's really necessary
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Zegnat cookie << [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0136 Directive 2009/136/EC], a.k.a. recent clarifications around the EU “cookie” law
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Zegnat cookie << [http://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2012/wp194_en.pdf EU Opinion on exemptions to required consent for cookies]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32009L0136 Directive 2009/136/EC], a.k.a. recent clarifications around the EU “cookie” law" to the "See Also" section of /cookie https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48869&oldid=48792
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Loqi There was a problem editing the wiki! Edit conflict.
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Zegnat cookie << [http://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2012/wp194_en.pdf EU Opinion on exemptions to required consent for cookies]
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Loqi ok, I added "[http://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2012/wp194_en.pdf EU Opinion on exemptions to required consent for cookies]" to the "See Also" section of /cookie https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48870&oldid=48869
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Zegnat Reading that opinion, seems like the contrast thing might be in the clear. It only sets the information in the browser upon explicit request by the user for the feature
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Zegnat Though not done reading yet, so they might throw me for a loop
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Zegnat petermolnar, per the EU opinion, section 3.6 (“UI customization cookies”), a cookie to remember a user UI preference that the user themselfs set by “clicking on a button” is exempt from first asking consent. *BUT* only for short term storage. (page 8)
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Zegnat where short term means “the duration of a session (or slightly more)” (page 11)
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Zegnat sknebel++ for that opinion link, it is actually really comprehensible!
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Loqi sknebel has 38 karma in this channel (104 overall)
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@calum_ryan Join us next Wednesday from 7pm at Proven Dough, Brick Lane for @HWCLondon Updated data privacy info: https://hwclondon.co.uk/privacy. ✏️ Webmention RSVP/Tito registration https://hwclondon.co.uk/meetups/20180627#intro (twitter.com/_/status/1009386987277766657)
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@webstandards After this weeks #lwsJun18 if you want to know more about #IndieWeb #WebMentions #MicroPub etc then why not go along to @HWCLondon (twitter.com/_/status/1009395398400774144)
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[grantcodes] Think I got my IWS project decided. I'm working on a new self contained micropub endpoint that is hopefully going to be pretty slick. Adaptable storage, realtime updates and very extendable. Wonder if I'll be able to roll it out to my website next week... Might be a bit too much
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[cleverdevil] Sounds great, [grantcodes]
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[cleverdevil] I’m still trying to decide on my project :P
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[cleverdevil] I may work on my Micropub endpoint project too, but can’t decide.
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[grantcodes] Ha too many projects, not enough time
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[cleverdevil] True
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tantek__ yeah
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gRegorLove Woo, indiewebify.me updates. Thanks aaronpk!
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skippy https://github.com/dutchcoders/transfer.sh/ neat!
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gregorlove.com edited /Leaders (-27) "/* next */" (view diff)
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@jackjamieson Thinking about if/how to adopt Microsub into my feed reader: Yarns v. Microsub? (Thinking out loud) https://jackjamieson.net/yarns-v-microsub/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1009499780391849988)
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tantek.com moved /Template:Jgregorymcverry.com to /Template:jgmac1106 "IRC and Slack nick"
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ It is called your bookmark post-kind and/or webmentions. #IndieWeb already has way to save Tweets. Also try @archive_tweet (http://jgregorymcverry.com/3687-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1009506877472993281)
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@EddieHinkle ↩️ While you should ultimately choose the best option for you, I would strongly encourage the use of #3. Microsub readers are off to a great start, and I think the biggest barrier to entry is going to be servers… https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/06/20/10/reply/ (twitter.com/_/status/1009509838441910274)
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@jackjamieson Yarns v. Microsub? (Thinking out loud): https://jackjamieson.net/?p=424 (twitter.com/_/status/1009517058864893953)
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tantek.com edited /Leaders (+132) "travel assistance" (view diff)
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[eddie] Hmmm question for those use to iOS apps. So I’m adding a “Full Post” view to Indigenous that allows you to see the entire post content when you swipe left on a timeline article. While reading the full article, if you click on a link, would you expect it to open directly in Safari, or in In-App Safari View?
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aaronpk very rarely do I have a good experience on the phone with in-app browsers
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aaronpk if anything, use the sfsafariviewcontroller so that there's a built-in UI to get the link out of the app and perform other actions on it, also so that it shares system cookies
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aaronpk but probably I'd want it to launch the system native browser
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[eddie] Yeah, if I did in-app it would be SFSafariViewController, but I’m definitely learning towards opening in the native browser. Because if you wanted to open several links from the article, Safari will allow those to be separate tabs, but if its the SFVC you would have to do some magic tricks
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[jgmac1106] Wondering [eddie] with today's release of Flutter if one day you just make one app (while also hoping and believing PWA will win the day and none of it will matter)
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[eddie] For now, I plan to stick with pure Apple Frameworks with Swift code, and Swentel will keep working on the Android app. I tend to not be a huge believer in cross-platform frameworks
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[eddie] Aside from the web, which was designed that way
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[eddie] Image from iOS https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FBCA2CR5M/image_from_ios.png?pub_secret=0da55e3188&name=Image from iOS.png Still a bit of work to do on the UI, and feel of the text, etc. but it’s a start!
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[kim_landwehr] [eddie] I would go for open in directly in Safari, although to be honest I hardly ever use the in-app browser if given a choice.
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[eddie] Excellent! Thanks for the feedback [kim_landwehr]! I was worried that In-App browsers was a common expectation, but it seems like that is not the case! 🙂
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[kim_landwehr] Now if I can remember that you ([eddie]) are working on the ios app and Swentel is working on the Android app. Apologize in advance because I am pretty sure I will forget a
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tantek__ !tell prlbr thanks improving the rel-up page! This is an excellent start. I've added a few comments / questions inline for potential ways to improve rel=up
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek__ oops wrong channel, sorry
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tantek__ !untell prlbr
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aaronpk come to think of it, I actually actively dislike the in-app browser experience in both twitter and facebook. it makes me angry every time.
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tantek__ same / never use fb app. ever ever ever. DO NOT TRUST. DO NOT WANT
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KartikPrabhu I would go for open in whatever "default" browser
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snarfed that escalated quickly
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KartikPrabhu I hate it when apps open links in their fav browser and not my default
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aaronpk I like that gmail opens links in chrome but only cause chrome is my preferred browser :P
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tantek__ I'm annoyed that gmail (ios app) gives you only the choice of chrome (which I don't even have installed :P) or safari, and ignores the fact that I have Firefox and Firefox Focus installed
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aaronpk yeah sadly there isn't an actual mechanism on ios to set the default browser
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KartikPrabhu what!!!
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aaronpk google apps just hack it by checking if chrome is installed and prompting
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KartikPrabhu with all the bells and whistles, you can't make a browser default?
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-apples-ios-fragmentation-problems.html
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[kevinmarks] Still broken
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[kevinmarks] Android got much better at this with embedded Web views that use the default browser and can switch quickly to the browser
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jgmac1106 [kevinmarks] Does anyone still call Safari a browser?
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[cleverdevil] I use Safari on every device as my main browser 🙂
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KartikPrabhu [jgmac1106]: yes because Lynx is also a browser
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tantek__ kevinmarks can you cite an article for how a "PWA" on Android can register to handle URLs? because that would be quite useful for personal sites being able to register to handle say web+action: URLs per /webaction and /indie-config
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loqi.me created /Blogging101 (+25) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Blogging_101 (+455) "stub, dfn, fix to be 20:30, EDT is -4, list, h-entry" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Hm. I am not sure if you can get urls that aren't from the manifest domain https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/integration/webapks
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[kevinmarks] I bet they would resist that
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[kevinmarks] https://jakearchibald.com/2018/i-discovered-a-browser-bug/
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snarfed i did a deep dive on this on android a while ago, but only for apps, not PWAs. https://github.com/snarfed/open-in-app/#readme
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[eddie] Hmm maybe I should add a setting for a default browser on iOS
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[eddie] Similar to what Google does, where it checks what apps are installed and then allows you to select one
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[eddie] Lower on the priority list but still a thought
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tantek__ eddie, that would be better than what Google / Gmail does (they don't actually check what apps are installed, otherwise they would provide Firefox, Firefox Focus as options, which they don't)
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tantek__ eddie, try installing Firefox and Firefox Focus for iOS and then using a Google iOS app to open a link
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