#dev 2018-07-20

2018-07-20 UTC
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ @essenmitsosse Sharp eye. There's an extension to webmention called vouch to guard against abuse. https://indieweb.org/Vouch (twitter.com/_/status/1020105904333737988)
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@dancohen It’s really worth keeping an eye on webmentions. Most promising web technology I’ve seen in a long time. https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020113171464540166)
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@WorkingWriter New from @ChrisAldrich: Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet via @alistapart (twitter.com/_/status/1020117060230270977)
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@lunamoth Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet · An A List Apart Article http://bit.ly/2LoOb67 // 웹멘션 표준 정해졌나보군요, 태터툴즈,텍스트큐브 댓글알리미 문득 생각나는군요 (twitter.com/_/status/1020129190195224576)
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@iskhartakh Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet via @alistapart (twitter.com/_/status/1020129735756546048)
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@lunamoth ↩️ Webmention http://bit.ly/2LqzzDk (twitter.com/_/status/1020130593718202368)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Associated how? In webmentions you send? Typically the receiving site will parse your page to find the h-card and pull out the u-photo for it, so depending on your theme or a custom marked up h-card, that will dictate the photo that shows up. [more...] https://boffosocko.com/2018/07/19/reply-to-aaron-davis-about-images-in-h-cards/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020151465111740416)
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boffosocko.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+407) "A List Apart Webmention article" (view diff)
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@ILAO Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet via @alistapart #legaltech (twitter.com/_/status/1020156982467153921)
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@Kepa_Munoz Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://lnkd.in/e7PBz-m (twitter.com/_/status/1020158969543888896)
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boffosocko.com edited /Kumu (+141) "Indiemap example" (view diff)
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@ryanwi "Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet" http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet #web-dev #feedly (twitter.com/_/status/1020161973864939522)
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@heinz The way to go for independence: Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet · An A List Apart Article /by @chrisaldrich https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020185966210945024)
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@lsmith ↩️ your recent blog post on #webmentions has triggered quite a few discussions inside @liip which will hopefully soon materialize into some real world code (twitter.com/_/status/1020189560133816320)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ And here I thought that I was the only one in the intersection of the Venn diagram of the universe that included the words quantum, information theory, and webmentions! Perhaps we should start a club? (twitter.com/_/status/1020191933635932160)
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@patrickloonstra @frankmeeuwsen Over webmentions op A List Apart https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020195634924654593)
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@webpoint_new #wp_Dev #WebDesignerNews Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://www.webdesignernews.com/external/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020202098758168576)
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@vingar Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet - "It also makes them first-class decentralized internet citizens." (Across platforms, owners, boundaries): https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet by @alistapart @ChrisAldrich #Internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020204815350140928)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ After having gotten Webmention working, you might consider stopping by the IndieWeb chat to ask this question of folks like @aaronpk, @t, @kevinmarks, and others who might provide some guidance/suggestions. As a group, they've been able to… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/evertp-after-having-gotten-webmention-working-you-might-consider-stopping (twitter.com/_/status/1020205120552865792)
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@bashooka Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://ift.tt/2LrgPUj (twitter.com/_/status/1020209387602837504)
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@JavaScriptKicks Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet by @chrisaldrich https://javascriptkicks.com/r/52188?url=http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet #javascript #webmentions via @JavaScriptKicks (twitter.com/_/status/1020225706289254400)
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@martincouzins Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020226825707048961)
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@amt_jose RT JavaScriptKicks "Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet by chrisaldrich https://javascriptkicks.com/r/52188?url=http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet #javascript #webmentions via JavaScriptKicks" (twitter.com/_/status/1020229680186654720)
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@macbirdie I've been recently reading on all the IndieWeb is about, i.e. using microformats, webmentions, POSSE, and I'm surprised how much content and context we can get out by simply annotating our blogs properly. The web itself is indeed a social network. (twitter.com/_/status/1020241569734184960)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I just love that I can carry on this conversation from my blog because of webmentions. All I need to know is h-card and h-entry. I look at specs on http://schema.org for learning and my head explodes.. So much metadata (http://jgregorymcverry.com/4737-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1020249362880966656)
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@csarven ↩️ Notice how "Loqi" has see also to Webmention but Webmention doesn't link back? ;) Read also intentionally degrading documents like /RDF, /lost_infrastructure.. /namespace,.. and see its real perspective. Again, compile all that.. and revisit the principles and see if they uphold. (twitter.com/_/status/1020251379355578368)
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GWG Morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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tantek.com edited /indiewebring (+16) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ 📊" (view diff)
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petermolnar is there a reasonable upper limit on RSS files? I mean my I never realized my feeds are easily in the half MB range these days, due to the length of full content included
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tantek__ petermolnar: I had to cut down my Atom file because it was a bandwidth hog
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petermolnar do you still include the full content or have you switched over to links to the full content only?
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tantek__ full content except as aaronpk observed, my event posts just say "Event"
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tantek__ I got tired of recoding post types in Atom+AS1, especially when no one seems to be doing anything useful with Atom+AS1 anymore
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@BklynDH Interesting. https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020291456894939136)
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@johnholtripley "Webmention is a standardised protocol that enables one website address to notify another website address that the former contains a reference to the latter. It also allows the latter to verify the authenticity of the reference..." https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020298683529814016)
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@sitegeekinc Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet Over 1 million Webmentions will have been sent across the internet since the specificationwas made a full Recommendation by the W3C—the standards body that guides the direction of the web... http://www.sitegeek.in/technology/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020300898512375808)
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@wiobyrne Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet. A comprehensive overview of webmentions & #IndieWeb from Chris Aldrich (https://boffosocko.com/) http://bit.ly/2JJCWAm (twitter.com/_/status/1020310582312960000)
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@depone Seit der API-Umstellung von Facebook kann http://Brid.gy nicht mehr auf Likes und Kommentare zugreifen und sie als Webmention an WordPress schicken. Mist. (twitter.com/_/status/1020311563306176512)
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@kazuhito Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet · An A List Apart Article https://ift.tt/2O3PqXd (twitter.com/_/status/1020312724792840192)
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@LibSkrat It’s fascinating to me that this explainer https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet on the Webmentions standard: - never mentions Trackback - nor the spam and harassment issues that caused Trackback to lose implementation share in ‘00s blogs I hope W3C was more thoughtful than this piece. (twitter.com/_/status/1020312765175607297)
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@LibSkrat ↩️ If not, Webmentions will be a Microsoft-Tay-style horror as soon as network effects kick in for it. (twitter.com/_/status/1020312977503907841)
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@LibSkrat ↩️ Oh lor’. I just looked at the spec. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#preventing-abuse Sum total of spam protection: “process asynchronously.” Sum total of abuse protection: “oh, sure, you can moderate these before you post them.” Awesome. Don’t implement Webmentions, y’all. TRAINWRECK INCOMING. (twitter.com/_/status/1020313844835643403)
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schmarty[m] oh boy
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@LibSkrat ↩️ The ONE implementation I would consider is one that lets me aggregate/send only my own stuff—sort of an IFTTT/Zapier replacement. But randos leaving crap all over my online spaces? This is why I noped out of Hypothesis. Noping RIGHT out of Webmentions also. (twitter.com/_/status/1020314510853275649)
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@fncll An interesting article that made webmentions clear to me. Have to avoid going too far down the #IndieWeb rabbit hole…there is work to get done! https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020315323176759302)
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schmarty[m] i share some of the concerns about harassment-/spam- prevention for webmentions, since so many things are untested. however, this response assumes a lot of things about webmention implementations that aren't defined by the spec.
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@EddieHinkle ↩️ Those are some valid concerns. One thing I'd like to point out at the bottom of the spec is a link to Vouch, which is an anti-spam extension to Webmention that is in development (https://indieweb.org/Vouch) (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/07/20/6/reply/) (twitter.com/_/status/1020319015498059782)
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[eddie] Twitter is like a game of roulette, you never know if you’re gonna get a good reaction or a bad one. But it’s always worth it just to spin 🙂 https://twitter.com/LibSkrat/status/1020319230695231488
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@LibSkrat @EddieHinkle thanks, I’ll take a look! So glad to hear that developers are thinking about this. (twitter.com/_/status/1020319230695231488)
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@LibSkrat ↩️ Posted a comment to an open GitHub issue suggesting a possible spam attack against Webmention+Vouch. LMK if you’d prefer me to move it to a separate issue. (twitter.com/_/status/1020322140191698946)
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@thierryarzal 'Over 1 million Webmentions will have been sent across the internet since the specification was made a full Recommendation by the W3C in January 2017' - Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet via @alistapart http://ow.ly/Tih630l2PoU (twitter.com/_/status/1020323717170311170)
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[eddie] The comment LibSkrat is talking about above is here: https://github.com/indieweb/vouch/issues/2#issuecomment-406626325 If anyone feels that should be it’s own issue, feel free to post in that issue. For now, I’ll tell him that it’s fine where it is
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Loqi [dsalo] Related issue is an easy attack: - Eve leaves a comment or webmention on Carol's website containing a link to Eve's website. - Once the comment/webmention appears, Eve sends a spam webmention to Alice's website (and Bob's, and... this should be e...
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[eddie] :shocked_face_with_exploding_head: I love interacting with all these people through our own websites. I just had a Twitter conversation and sent a GitHub reaction all from my own website
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@edtechfactotum ↩️ @fncll Hmmm, this might be a good entry point https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020326105125814272)
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@fncll ↩️ I'm keeping it simple: sending short posts/asides from WordPress to http://micro.blog, which distributes to Twitter. And then using two plugins in WordPress to receive webmentions (just received my first real one last night). (twitter.com/_/status/1020326176764526594)
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@fncll ↩️ I'm using the IndieWeb plugin + that WebMention plugin and the Semantic Linkbacks plugin. Simple settings and it seems to be working out of the box. (twitter.com/_/status/1020326809987047424)
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[snarfed] eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 40 karma in this channel (69 overall)
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@adactioLinks Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet · An A List Apart Article https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020334787603595264)
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schmarty[m] eddie++ nice woooooork
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Loqi eddie has 41 karma in this channel (70 overall)
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@mctrebo Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet. #webmentions #communication http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet via @alistapart (twitter.com/_/status/1020338180346793984)
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tantek__ eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 42 karma in this channel (72 overall)
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tantek__ will follow-up in GH later, however quickly re: https://github.com/indieweb/vouch/issues/2#issuecomment-406626325
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Loqi [dsalo] Related issue is an easy attack: - Eve leaves a comment or webmention on Carol's website containing a link to Eve's website. - Once the comment/webmention appears, Eve sends a spam webmention to Alice's website (and Bob's, and... this should be e...
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tantek__ that's exactly a scenario that *works* for webmention, that is
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tantek__ if Carol is allowing Eve to comment on Carol's site/post, that means Carol thinks Eve is ok, essentially, showing public content from someone else is saying you're willing to vouch for their comment being ok, not being spam, abusive, etc.
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tantek__ then if Alice, Bob, etc. also themselves think Carol is ok, it makes sense that they accept the URL that shows Carol's vouch for Eve
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aaronpk I think Vouch might benefit from some less spec-y descriptions of it
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aaronpk right now it's written very terse, as a spec should, in order to describe the minimum needed to get interop working
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tantek__ if Eve starts spamming them, then Alice, Bob, etc. have a choice of either 1. confronting Carol and saying hey why do you allow this spammer to comment on your site? upon which Carol either delete or blocks Eve and the vouch is gone. OR 2. Alice or Bob just decide themselves well I didn't really think Carol was ok, and stop allowing vouches from her site
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aaronpk so someone reading it for the first time misses a bunch of the assumptions being made that aren't technically part of Vouch,
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tantek__ right, that part needs to be better explained
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tantek__ the social equivalent
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tantek__ and thus the self-repair aspect
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[eddie] Ahh, yeah, that explanation definitely helps to clarify that issue
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tantek__ the party parallel is the key "simple" explainer here
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[cleverdevil] +1 to [aaronpk]'s suggestion... I read the spec a few times and it was super difficult for me to parse.
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tantek__ if equivalent is, Carol lets Eve come to her party as a friend
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[eddie] It’s somewhat similar to how if you are following someone on Twitter and they are always doing bad retweets, eventually you just unfollow that person. (Obviously not the exact same)
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tantek__ eddie yes
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[eddie] Yeah, party is a good explanation
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tantek__ otherwise you will show up in thei
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tantek__ their list of "who you know that follows them"
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tantek__ which is why someone being bitter / mean to other people on Twitter is enough for me to unfollow them. unless you're punching-up as it were, criticizing those with power for their actions, like POTUS
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tantek__ but if you're just being a jerk on Twitter? unfollow
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aaronpk i've started opening my oauth presentations with this slide https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-07-20-11-22-25-8DQTntMKSX.jpg
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tantek__ so back to the party
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tantek__ aaronpk: lol
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tantek__ if Eve shows up to Alice's party and says hey I'm with my friend Carol, then proceeds to trash Alice's house or heck, leave advertisements, then Alice will have 1. kick out Eve (delete spam), and 2. confront Carol about hey why are you friends with this jerk?
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tantek__ they key for this to work is good UI
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tantek__ so when Eve's comment shows up on Alice's blog with a vouch, perhaps even publicly display that vouch
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tantek__ then when Alice goes to delete Eve's spam, the CMS should also say hey BTW that spam was vouched for by Carol, do you want to not allow vouches from her site any more? or just post a note asking her WTF with Eve?
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aaronparecki.com edited /RDF () "(-542) de-snark, could still use improvement" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] My case with Apple has been "escalated to an internal team for investigation."
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[cleverdevil] So.... yay, I guess?
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tantek__ aaronpk, that's reasonable, except I'd drop this too: "These newer formats come across to the untrained eye as less academically obsessive. "
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aaronpk yeah I was on the fence about that one
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tantek__ because to any "untrained eye" any form of RDF looks excessively complex
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aaronparecki.com edited /RDF (-85) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /RDFa (+0) "de-snark" (view diff)
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] positive and negative? lol
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tantek.com edited /RDF (+13) "just XML-related, and note Linked Data rebranding" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] Heh, yeah, they've acknowledged that there seems to be something going wrong, which is good, but who knows how long it'll take until I hear back from them.
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tantek__ we can instead cite articles about RDF failure to deliver on promises, excessive hype over the decades etc.
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tantek.com edited /RDF (+136) "note RDF was a technology, pitched as Semantic Web, used in Trackback, dropped by Pingback, and not in any indieweb use-cases in practice" (view diff)
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[miklb] [eddie] quick question about Indigenous. When I create a new post it comes in as an article. Is there a way to create a micropub note?
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[eddie] hmmm [miklb] If you don’t add a title it shouldn’t be coming in as an article
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[eddie] That’s very strange
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[miklb] I don’t even see a field for title
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[eddie] That appears when you type more then 280 characters (similar to Micro.blog)
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[miklb] ah
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[miklb] so I’m definitely not adding a title, but WP is picking it up as an article.
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tantek.com edited /RDF (+41) "RDF ws used in RSS 1.0, dropped in 2.0" (view diff)
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[eddie] Hmm that’s very strange. Anyone remember Zegnat’s Micropub site that displays whatever it receives?
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aaronpk sink?
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[eddie] ahh yeah!
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[eddie] [miklb] This is all I’m sending for a note: https://sink.zegnat.net/17ekp4IBBhxXtXYnKh7U01T79xI
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[eddie] So, WP should definitely NOT be making that an article
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[miklb] so WP interprets entry as article it seems?
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[miklb] WP micropub plugin to be specific
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[eddie] Either entry as article or it’s checking to see if name == content
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[eddie] whereas name doesn’t exist here
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[eddie] so name != content, thus article?
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[eddie] lol
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[miklb] has some code to read
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[miklb] though I’m not sure *what* code to read since it’s all being rewritten 😛
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[eddie] 😆 that’s true
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[miklb] ok, thanks for clarifying. At least I know where to look now.
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[miklb] eddie++ for part I of IW posts
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Loqi eddie has 43 karma in this channel (74 overall)
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snarfed i think GWG has overstated that the wordpress micropub plugin is being "rewritten"
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[miklb] well, I used that term in the sense that there a lot of moving parts right now
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snarfed it's mostly just internal refactoring, eg splitting into multiple files, adding support for a few wordpress-isms, some auth details
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snarfed afaik the micropub logic and data handling is all staying pretty much as is
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snarfed also when you say it's an article, you mean the post kind, right?
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snarfed if so, i'd look in that plugin
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[miklb] yes, so I’m probably conflating the micropub plugin as what is interpreting the post kind. But I wanted to clarify that what was getting stored was correct first
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snarfed sure
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snarfed i expect you can just look at the post in the wp admin ui to see both if it has a title or not, and its post kind
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[miklb] in the admin UI, it’s taxonomy for kind is article
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[miklb] which was helpful since I surfaced a fatal error in a template and crashed my site
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snarfed taxonomy is a wp core thing? i don't really know anything about it. if there's a note taxonomy, and if micropub should set posts to that when they don't have a title, then feel free to file a feature request!
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[miklb] the post kinds plugin basically is a custom taxonomy ‘kind’
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[miklb] and there are some code snippets floating around that map types of notes to the native WP post formats
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[miklb] that sounds like the post kinds plugin doesn’t do much, and that’s hardly the case. It does a spectacular job of pulling in context from URLs storing postmeta about a URL
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[dougbeal] I think I'm only getting articles with press this, I thought I got the appropriate kind before
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[dougbeal] Need to track down the gravatar comment problem first
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@zeldman ☛ Listen up, designers & developers: our walled gardens are ripe for disruption. Learn how W3C Webmentions smash silos & free up cross-platform content & communication, ℅ @chrisaldrich in @AListApart: https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020356703756464129)
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aaronpk !rt http://twtr.io/1gEwRK1h8vV
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Loqi Thanks! We need one more person to confirm the retweet!
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[dougbeal] !rt http://twtr.io/1gEwRK1h8vV
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Loqi Thanks [dougbeal] and aaronpk! https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/1020357882343088128
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[dougbeal] Zeldman++
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Loqi zeldman has 1 karma
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aaronpk What is audience?
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Loqi audience is an experimental property of a post that indicates the intended recipients (readers) of the post https://indieweb.org/audience
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aaronpk As I'm thinking about posting notes visible to only certain people, I'm worried about what happens when someone "likes" or replies to that post on their website
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aaronpk If I make the url require login, then presumably all existing tools that would fetch the reply context will fail to get any data from the page
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[dougbeal] Depending on the context, it would be interesting to have a public teaser... Like for subscription content? Where a subscriber could like and automatically get approved teaser
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aaronpk Once the tools know how to fetch private posts then we start having to be concerned about making sure that someone else's site isn't republishing my content to an audience it was not intended for
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dougbeal itty.bitty.site has a similar problem. When I bookmarked it I got the encoded string.
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aaronpk The real trick is I want to tell people a post is visible to them because theyre on a special list without telling them anything else about that list like the name or who else is on it
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dougbeal Like <large><blink>Private Post ? ;)
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aaronpk Yes but something machine readable so that they know not to show it in a reply context
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@miklb You've seen me ramble on about "IndieWeb" here's a great article on webmentions, the core of how we can start interacting from our own website instead of silos. https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020361119989366785)
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aaronpk Also it's not quite "private" since it's visible to a bunch of people just not public
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[miklb] using the excerpt field to put the link at the end and using markdown links in the post is working out well. Now to write a plugin to do that for me.
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dougbeal kinda like goverment classified documents?
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dougbeal miklb: No link back to your site?
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@ishan_13 Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://tinyurl.com/ydcbns6m #geek #iosdev #tech (twitter.com/_/status/1020364469141110785)
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@dixongexpat @eatpodcast Mr. Cherfas - would be most interested in details on getting webmentions integrated into GravCMS - any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated! tnx... (twitter.com/_/status/1020364510245412864)
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[miklb] ?
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[miklb] [dougbeal] link back where?
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[dougbeal] From the tweet
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[miklb] no, I don’t link back in tweets, I use bridgy with syndication links.
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[miklb] not for notes at least
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[miklb] if I’m understanding the question
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snarfed while we're discussing micropub and synd links etc here...for anyone interested, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/796 would be a great starter project for contributing to bridgy, and highly appreciated by lots of people here
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Loqi [snarfed] #796 micropub API for bridgy publish
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snarfed it's a substantial project, but very self contained
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@mobiscroll Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://buff.ly/2NtLGgp (twitter.com/_/status/1020371517199220737)
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@ArenaEden Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020371522601529344)
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@mcmorgan This is a test to webmention on http://mcmorgan.org/blog (twitter.com/_/status/1020374322047746048)
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@racknine #WebMentions: Enabling better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020374333066219520)
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@vince2_ Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet · https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (it's a bit unfortunate to publish this on a site without webmention support) (twitter.com/_/status/1020374542844399621)
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@PanolaTech The Weekly Roundup for July 20th #WeeklyRoundup #Security #SmartPhones #Webmentions https://www.panolatech.com/2018/07/20/weekly-roundup-for-july-20th/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020374874320142338)
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loqi.me edited /RDF (+195) "tantek__ added "Criticism: http://microformats.org/wiki/triples <blockquote>The larger problem is that triples are more than just complicated, they are unnecessarily complicated.</blockquote>" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@kfitz ↩️ It’s an open question, but one that I think these protocols (Solid/Webmentions) are pointing toward: ways of building intentional online conversations and communities. (twitter.com/_/status/1020378134028390400)
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tantek__ heh well one of those two actually has folks using them in the wild with lots of implementations :)
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tantek__ the other has a vanity fair interview with the inventor of the web, so ... yeah.
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@slownames ↩️ This thing on ALA makes Webmentions sound like they could be a nice first step https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020385989091635200)
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@EddieHinkle ↩️ Webmentions are great! I've been using them since 2017 and it's changed the way I interact. I just wrote an article about how I got into Webmention and other IndieWeb technologies. Give it a read (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/07/20/11/article/) and join us (… https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/07/20/22/reply/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020389219947163648)
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[ryan339] https://github.com/ckruse/microformats2-elixir/issues/1#issuecomment-406703582 🎉
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Loqi [bismark] Awesome thank you!
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@pollyalida Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://buff.ly/2NtLGgp https://t.co/vRukeJ3A3g (twitter.com/_/status/1020393889365192705)
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@Madgraphism Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://buff.ly/2NtLGgp (twitter.com/_/status/1020395421703827459)
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@spinsterofutica I'm intrigued by the Webmentions standard as a way of pulling convos back onto the open web, but also appreciative of critical voices like @LibSkrat on the weak protections against spam and abuse. https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020398522636439552)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ As I prep for #DrupalCamp LA this weekend I’m considering how fun and impressive it’s been watching folks like @swentel & @Dries bring Webmention and other #IndieWeb philosophies to @drupal since February. @ladrupal https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb https://boffosocko.com/2018/07/20/reply-to-zeldman-about-ala-article-on-webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1020399421412933632)
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@mrdougal ↩️ @ChrisAldrich @zeldman @alistapart @swentel @Dries @drupal @ladrupal Webmentions is such a good idea, I’m glad it’s getting wider adoption. (twitter.com/_/status/1020408594670338048)
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@JavaScriptKicks Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet by chrisaldrich https://javascriptkicks.com/r/52188?url=http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet #javascript (twitter.com/_/status/1020415441150279681)
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[eddie] oops, hit enter too early
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[eddie] So the opposite of syndication is “rel=canonical”? For example, if I’m syndicating to a website I own, I should probably have the one link to the other as “rel=canonical” and
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[eddie] Essentially the one I consider as “syndicated” I should have it link back to the original with “rel=canonical”, right?
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tantek if you can sure. usually silos are unfriendly towards adding rel values on links back to originals
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[eddie] Yeah, I’m looking at two websites I own
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[eddie] :thumbsup: Just wanted to make sure I was understanding that relationship correctly
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@portenkirchner Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020417840392933376)
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] I was helping someone with an hcard that wasn't on their canonical url but had a link to that url and the current url. Went u-url to his canonical and u-uid to the current page with hcard
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[jgmac1106] Not sure if that was right. Was advice I got. I find description of u-uid ND u-url hard to understand the difference
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gregorlove.com edited /representative_h-card (+1) "update mf wiki link for representative-h-card-authoring" (view diff)
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@dusoft I am sold! This should have come way earlier: https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet #webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1020437096752992257)
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aaronpk [manton]: it looks like micro.blog supports articles, but that isn't returned in q=config
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tantek so this is kind of a big deal: https://twitter.com/zeldman/status/1020408846400065537
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@zeldman @mrdougal @ChrisAldrich @alistapart @swentel @Dries @drupal @ladrupal Looking forward to implementing on ALA, http://Zeldman.com, etc (twitter.com/_/status/1020408846400065537)
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tantek re: Webmention
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tantek the need for Vouch is becoming ever more imminent!
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[manton] [aaronpk] Oh yeah, I'll add it. Thanks.
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[manton] Although... Perhaps I didn't add it because Micro.blog doesn't have a different name for notes vs. articles.
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk this list of supported post types should be based on post type discovery https://ptd.spec.indieweb.org/
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Post Type Discovery
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aaronpk heh, I just realized that PTD is in the category of specs that is vague enough to apply to many use cases so doesn't actually tell us specific enough information to be interoperable
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aaronpk in particular, we need a list of canonical identifiers for each post type
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ramblinggit.com edited /chat-names (+161) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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aaronpk i've been using lowercase versions of the text in "then it is a ____ post"
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aaronpk [manton]: does micro.blog support "reply" posts? e.g. what happens if someone puts in a URL in quill's "reply" field?
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tantek aaronpk yeah that was what I intended (lowercase ... )
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tantek I could provide emoji for each too if that would help :)
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[manton] [aaronpk] Nope, not currently. It expects replies to be handled via Webmention or from the Micro.blog API. I think because in Micro.blog replies are in an existing conversation, and there's not really a concept of replies to external URLs. There's no special formatting for them.
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aaronpk that makes sense
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[manton] I think adding replies via Micropub would fit in with having a formal way to do reposts/quoting, which is something I've been thinking about too.
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tantek re: no special formatting - you can always show a /reply-context for a reply post, whether it is in reply to something on your site, or some external URL
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tantek e.g. consider the use-case of using your micro.blog to comment on someone else's blog (not hosted by micro.blog)
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tantek that should "just" work
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tantek and the copy of your reply on micro.blog (your original) would ideally show a /reply-context of whatever external blog post you replied to
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@kaushalmodi Webmentions is awesome! I have it implemented on my @GoHugoIO + @Netlify site for a while. It's a "set it, forget it, just works" experience :). Also check out the badges in my site's (in my profile) footer. (twitter.com/_/status/1020444225090072576)
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tantek that way you have a way to confirm your reply has been posted, regardless of any moderation or anything similar at the destination of the comment
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[manton] Thanks. That seems very much in line with how quoting will look. Right now users are kind of own their own to link to and format those posts.
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aaronpk Quill now consumes the micropub post-types extension
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[manton] Great!
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aaronpk so micro.blog users will not see links to the quill interfaces for unsupported post types
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aaronpk that should reduce the support requests since now things can't go wrong as much
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aaronpk where is that on the wiki?
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aaronpk weird, I can't find it anywhere
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aaronpk did we really get a publisher and a consumer of a micropub extension without it ever being documented on the wiki?
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tantek "how quoting will work"? manton perhaps I misunderstand a /reply post is quite different from a /quotation post
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aaronpk goes back to adding a UI to manage his nicknames cache
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dougbeal aaronpk++ Noice
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Loqi aaronpk has 162 karma in this channel (1683 overall)
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tantek.com edited /RDFa (+270) "note (ir)relevance to indieweb, explicitly link example of unnecessary verbosity, Wikipedia instead of marketing link" (view diff)
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@terrainsvagues Really interesting article from all sorts of #scholcomm perspectives (h/t ⁦@elotroalex⁩) https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1020448937487011840)
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[manton] [tantek] I was thinking about reply vs. quoting in terms of how Micro.blog might format the posts by default. You're right, they're separate things.
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tantek phew :)
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[manton] [aaronpk] I think that might have jumped right into a GitHub issue instead of starting on the wiki.
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aaronpk Oh! Is it in the Micropub GitHub repo? I didn't even look there
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aaronpk So I'm working on my nicknames cache so that I end up with a way to associate people who log in to my site with other URLs and such, ultimately to get limited audience posts working
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aaronpk but I'm struggling with figuring out a mechanism to generate a list of posts that someone is allowed to see based on what lists they're in
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tantek aaronpk that's because it's a hard problem
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aaronpk It's like all the old exercises of building a twitter clone, where there are some clever solutions in redis or by denormalizing the data a lot
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aaronpk But... the interesting thing is that the challenge is specifically generating a list of posts, not doing the post privacy on its permalink
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tantek and making it work over time
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tantek where who has access can change over time
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aaronpk And even more interestingly, activitypub solves this in a way that basically makes this way easier for me as a publisher
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tantek not really. it doesn't handle updates
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aaronpk Updates to what?
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tantek who should be able to see the post
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tantek because human relationships change
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aaronpk Try implementing it and then reassess that
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tantek people become friends, enter trusted relationships, break-up, block each other etc.
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tantek if you ignore the time axis I think you're in for a heap of trouble
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tantek AP's model is far too simplisitc
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aaronpk The thing AP does is it removes the need for me to generate a list of posts at all
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tantek or rather, AFAIK it just replicates email. once sent, there's no changing
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aaronpk Right, but I'm reality there's no way to unsend something to someone if you've given it to them in a way they can store
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aaronpk Best you can do is request that it's deleted
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aaronpk of course in the other model, you can always avoid serving private content to the person in the future if they request it
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tantek right, like how Flickr works
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tantek in reality, no one is replicating all the private Flickr photos that they happen to have access to
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tantek so in reality, you don't have to "unsend" anything
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aaronpk But even without that consideration it's way harder to publish a private feed than it is to deliver individual private posts to someone's reader
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aaronpk The closest way I can think of to make a private feed for someone on my site is to essentially create an "inbox" for them on my site, and every time I publish a post it gets added to everyone's inbox on my site, then if they log in they get to see that inbox
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aaronpk cause I can't picture a query that will work otherwise
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tantek might take some time to iteratively brainstorm
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tantek what is a private post
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen or previously approved by the author https://indieweb.org/private_post
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aaronpk Well step 1 is I still need this nicknames cache management interface
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aaronpk otherwise I'm not gonna have anyone to share posts with
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@sandhawke Webmention is indeed quite cool. One of my all-time-favorite W3C specs. (I worked on it, but I worked on a lot I'm not so fond of, too.) (twitter.com/_/status/1020455635463401472)