[jgmac1106]I was going to stick each image on every page into a Twitter card in header and did not know if I should add u-featured inside of h-entry.... Then I am trying to fork my cc flickr attribution tool to spit out correct mf2 cite of a photo
gRegorLoveI found gridbyexample.com helpful and starting with smaller components vs. entire page layout (like the author section above each post on indiebookclub)
jgmac1106_and didn’t use any of the shortcuts, i think my course template will need a total overhaul, when I spell out the grid I do it right…the holy grail template I used…wasn’t ready for
jgmac1106_[tantek] to get an image to unfurl, cuz its pretty, and that is where the audience I would like to onboard to more indieweb approaches live. Be nice if a any link shared on Twitter with u-feature would post like a Twitter card
jgmac1106_but yeah they are in trouble….and if every single app needs its own developer account…so much for playing in that playground for Johnny Q. Public
LoqiKartikPrabhu: tantek__ left you a message 7 hours, 24 minutes ago: re: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-07-29/1532881135924700 - that's inaccurate. There's no such thing as a "linkback" (it's a made-up umbrella term AFAIK, not a specific technology), and trackback is not "just a ping" - it sends the full payload (which is why it was even spammier).
gRegorLoveFor example, in absence of OGP, Facebook will choose the first image that's at least 600px wide for the image when you share a link. Maybe Twitter does similar.
KartikPrabhu[miklb]: couple of things about that post. microformats is not mandatory to using webmentions. one can use mf1 classes and mf2 at the same time. So WP could add mf2 classes to their markup without removing the mf1 classes
[pfefferle][miklb] thanks for the summary, but WordPress core support of mf2 is not the solution of all of our problems... core only sets a few of the needed classes, like h-feed and h-entry... but theme authors still have to set p-name and e-content... so the core support might be worse than the current state, if theme developers will not catch up with implement mf2 support... In the end it is still up to the theme developer...
tantek__[pfefferle]: that is why keep coming back to specifying /metaformats explicitly, so we can backcompat (re)define OG et al as their microformats equivalents for the page
tantek__and frankly to be able to set the root microformat class name on the <html> (or <head>) element, and then the rest in <title class="p-name"> and <meta> tags
tantek__!tell KartikPrabhu I think saying "microformats is not mandatory to using webmentions" while hypothetically true, is not true for practical purposes. For example have you yourself implemented some way of using webmentions without microformats? If you have, then great, document that and provide it as an example. If you haven't then better to explicitly provide that "theoretically" or "according to the spec" caveat
jgmac1106[tantek] will work on Twitter card page, but I don’t really care about 3-5x engagement with image, It’s pretty, it’s about storytelling with a nonlinear but continous design narrative, and about having fun
[grantcodes]RE: WordPress microformats: I doubt it is a good idea, but definitely more possible in the wp ecosystem would be to have a plugin output hidden `data` tags with all the required markup. It's dirty, but it would work with every theme
jgmac1106yes, I was able to do them perfect for auto rows with set widths, but as soon as I started playing in grid and had some boxes span mutiple columns I kept messing up
jgmac1106I never predefined any grid areas but thought I could do a media query for wrapper and set the grid columns to 1, that didn’t work (or I typed it wrong) then tried to fo a media query and give set each row to span 1-8
gRegorLovejgmac1106: It appears to work if I change grid-template-columns on the wrapper and turn off the grid CSS for the three boxes (just in local dev tools)
gRegorLovejgmac1106: I disabled the properties on the 3 boxes in dev tools, so "default". Looks like it also works changing the grid-column values to 1.
snarfedhey sknebel just fyi, i plan to work on merging mf2py PRs and cutting a release tomorrow during IWC SF hack day, roughly 16:00-23:00 UTC, if you're interested in working together
LoqiKartikPrabhu: tantek__ left you a message 4 hours, 12 minutes ago: I think saying "microformats is not mandatory to using webmentions" while hypothetically true, is not true for practical purposes. For example have you yourself implemented some way of using webmentions without microformats? If you have, then great, document that and provide it as an example. If you haven't then better to explicitly provide that "theoretically" or "according to the spec" caveat
[kevinmarks]I have code to run them as tests in mf2py, but lots fail. I'll see if I can get them closer. I wonder if we should segment the tests differently, and add some of the newer, more focused less synthetic ones.
[cleverdevil]I looked into performance issues for the Micro.blog focused "On This Day" service I built, and pretty much all of the slowness is the initial parse of large archive pages using mf2py.
aaronpkcontent negotiation #fail... I forgot that I have a cache on my web server and it's not taking the content type into account when deciding to return from the cache
LoqiAn acquisition within the IndieWeb is a type of post that enumerates purchases, gifts, donations, (stolen?!) and found things potentially with additional information like photos, descriptions, specifications, price paid, date/time acquired, location acquired from, and condition https://indieweb.org/purchase
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "shopping" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "shopping is ____", a sentence describing the term)
tantek__and in a jsonld data island: "image":{"@type": "ImageObject","url":"https://regmedia.co.uk/2015/01/07/tommy_lee_jones1.jpg?x=1200&y=794","width":1200,"height":794},
tantek__anyone else seen abuse like that? where the /link-preview shows some rando and/or baity image, which is not present in the article, or shows a clickbaity title which is not on the article itself?
tantek__The Register knowingly abuses defacto web standards OGP and Twitter Cards as well as uses the image of Tommy Lee Jones (presumably without his permission) to promote their article(s)
tantek__"While The Register chicken-littles about theoretical web standard Webmention link spam they have never seen, they do so with a real world abuse of de facto web standards OGP and Twitter Cards to cause Facebook, Twitter, and likely other platforms to prominently display an image that is nowhere in their article. Plus did they ask Tommy Lee Jones permission to use his face to market their articles in social media? Presumably n
tantek__Is Gwyneth Paltrow a spokesperson for Micro and/or Intel now? Or a 3D chip thoughtleader? Perhaps we should check goop.com for NAND technology.
tantek__in the first example we can posit some possible intent, the second example does illustrate your point, likely an error, rotting invisible metadata
[ryan339]i think one question is this actually malicious behavior? (ignoring the celebrity thing which is a red herring IMO). given that ogp/hidden meta tags are the only way to get these link previews on silos, is it actually wrong/bad/malicious to show an image in a link preview thats not in the article?
tantek__that one also seems deliberate due to the title: "On Kaspersky’s 'transparency tour' the truth was clear as mud" - unlikely an accident they used a Tough Mudder image as a teaser for an article headline that mentions "mud"
[ryan339]maybe a better question: are there legitimate use cases for wanting to display a link differently in different contexts and thus needing to “abuse” ogp/card tags since thats the only option silos give us? (not saying these are legitimate use cases)
tantek.comedited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+273) "make it clear you do not need og:title, url, or description for starters and why. list some reasons why you still might want to use them" (view diff)
[jgmac1106]Register, bad headline.. Register should have done something much snarkier if they are throwing shade, good lede, gets sloppy where people usually stop reading
[manton][cleverdevil] I'm experimenting with adding a JSON Feed to complement the HTML archive page. It has the same content (truncated text for each post), but might be a little faster to parse. Unfortunately it's not smaller in terms of bytes. http://cleverangel.org/archive/index.json
Loqidougbeal: tantek__ left you a message 14 minutes ago: can you expand https://indieweb.org/rsvp#Doug_Beal ? When was your first RSVP post? Etc. any other details you'd like to add
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "production" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "production is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[manton][aaronpk] Yeah, for a big site this page is really big, HTML or JSON. Ultimately probably need a more efficient way to do these archive pages (breaking it out by year/month).
[manton][cleverdevil] If things go well, I can probably update all the existing sites over the course of a few days, and you could remove the extra code later.