#dev 2018-10-01

2018-10-01 UTC
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[tantek] Another thought I had on undo on the flight - in addition to undoing via the 30s delay, there's a distinction between POSSE copies that are deletable (tweets) and undeletable (email, e.g. via GH issue or comment)
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[tantek] Or webmention receivers that do not (fail to) support webmention CRUD
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[tantek] So similar to the 30m delay for free files (since old feed readers eagerly cache and may fail to update), I'm thinking of a delay (longer than 30s) for POSSE destinations that may be in effect undeletable
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@jackyalcine ↩️ I'd lean on people using domains as their contact info with MicroFormats helping that out. Using IndieWeb / IndieAuth, could "allow" people to see more on a person-to-person basis. (twitter.com/_/status/1046611418923991040)
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skippy https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/ if folks are motivated by free t-shirts. :)
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tantek__ jacky++ good reply to chris messina
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Loqi jacky has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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tantek__ for those of you working on authentication and identity related things (IndieAuth, rel-me, RelMeAuth etc.), you may be interested in:
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tantek__ W3C Workshop on Strong Authentication and Identity December 10-11 2018, Redmond, WA https://www.w3.org/Security/strong-authentication-and-identity-workshop/
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aaronpk iiiinteresting
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aaronpk who can attend?
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aaronpk RTFDs
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aaronpk https://www.w3.org/Security/strong-authentication-and-identity-workshop/cfp.html#how-can-i-attend
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aaronpk they have a survey to fill out to apply to attend
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aaronpk nice question: "What unusual point of view will you bring to the workshop?"
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tantek__ how about the fact that they omitted IndieAuth from the list of tech despite it being much more widely deployed than most of the things listed?
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tantek__ note I've already emailed one of the program committee asking about this
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tantek__ (in short: why wasn't IndieAuth listed)
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tantek__ I might go to because they mention so many decentralized things, even though it is literally the day after I get back from Orlando late at night, ugh
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aaronpk change the flight to go to washington directly from orlando?
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tantek__ oh no wait I mised a day - looks like I will have a whole Sunday at home :)
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aaronpk better
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tantek__ so I can fly out Sunday night
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aaronpk "Additionally, you are encouraged to submit a short position statement to ...@w3.org" hmm
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tantek__ (this is what happens sometimes in a compressed calendar that only lists days where there are things scheduled 😂)
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tantek__ aaronpk, short position statement for you: "I wrote the W3C Note on IndieAuth"
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aaronpk hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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aaronpk https://www.w3.org/Security/strong-authentication-and-identity-workshop/papers.html
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aaronpk are these supposed to be short statements or papers?
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aaronpk that is confusing
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[tantek] Submit latest draft of IndieAuth as your paper
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aaronpk can I just send a link or does it need to be in academic paper PDF format?
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[tantek] Link it
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KartikPrabhu ha! I am guessing it needs to be in "academic style" PDF
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you should now learn Latex :P
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Zegnat Pandoc HTML -> Markdown -> LaTeX -> PDF chain the spec :P
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[tantek] No. It's a W3C workshop so make a point that using W3C tech (links, HTML) is preferred
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@jgmac1106 Webmention Badges Discussion Across Networks After #IndieWebCamp NYC Session: http://jgregorymcverry.com/webmention-badges-discussion-across-networks-after-indiewebcamp-nyc-session/ https://t.co/7xFkmCXS9Q (twitter.com/_/status/1046822341542596608)
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KartikPrabhu might be of interest for micropub https://trix-editor.org/
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tantek__ "and outputs terse and consistent HTML." interesting KartikPrabhu
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tantek__ have you tried it?
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KartikPrabhu tantek__: mostly played around on that site for a bit. feels pretty snappy so bookmarked for if/when I write a micropub client :P
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tantek__ Oh dear I just realized the word "undeletable" could mean two things which are opposites
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk un-deleteable vs undelete-able
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tantek__ meaning one: the delete operation is undoable
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KartikPrabhu are they literally opposites though? ;)
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tantek__ meaning two: the item is not deletable
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tantek__ yes aaronpk you are correct
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tantek__ KartikPrabhu: sort of opposites on a spectrum?
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tantek__ un-deleteable ... deleteable but not un-deletable ... undeletable
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tantek__ https://indieweb.org/undo#Undeletable_ambiguity
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AngeloGl1 anyone use a custom user-agent with *personally identifying information* when interacting with other sites?
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aaronpk like intentionally?
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AngeloGl1 yeah
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sknebel I'd have to check to make sure, but I *think* my webmention verification says what domain it's from
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aaronpk i think i only include the service name in the user agent, not the person's site that is using it. e.g. xray.p3k.app not aaronparecki.com
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AngeloGl1 i think i've only ever seen the tooling -- for debugging/marketing purposes
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aaronpk it's not verifiable so it's not really useful as anything but debugging info
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AngeloGl1 so i'm integrating a crawler right now
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AngeloGl1 each user will have their own crawler
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AngeloGl1 if the user is given a slider bar and slides depth to 11, upgrades his droplet beforehand
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AngeloGl1 User-Agent: Canopy (lahacker.net)
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AngeloGl1 ...
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AngeloGl1 a malicious fork can do as it likes of course..
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AngeloGl1 i guess i'll run with that
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk what does a droplet or slider bars have to do with this? you lost me
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AngeloGl1 the requests are limited to specific one-off actions
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AngeloGl1 i followed all rel=me's
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AngeloGl1 for any list of unique people
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AngeloGl1 i'm integrating that into canopy core now
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AngeloGl1 so it'll map out an individual's rel=me identity but also pick up closely related individuals
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AngeloGl1 possible "You may know"
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AngeloGl1 so yeah there's going to be a significantly greater number of requests coming
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AngeloGl1 if you want to "expand your horizon" then you're searching friends-of-friends
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AngeloGl1 that's the slider bar
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AngeloGl1 you can read their entries and search for like keywords, etc.
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AngeloGl1 so it isn't just voyeuristic
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: do you have this longer description written in a post, or is this brainstorming out loud looking for feedback?
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AngeloGl1 hmm.. not sure how/if/when to share
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AngeloGl1 known has some weird behavior that lends itself to duplication of posts/requests
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AngeloGl1 i guess i'm just poking at the scalability-ness of the indieweb
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AngeloGl1 here in the chat and over the wire
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AngeloGl1 no post..
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AngeloGl1 i'll have a visual test suite first i think
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tantek__ maybe document your project on a wiki page as it feels a bit overwhelming to have so many aspects of it in one block of text on chat?
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tantek__ what is Canopy?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Canopy
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KartikPrabhu looks like it at least needs a "definition"
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tantek__ both in the syntax and in actual
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: can you take a look at updating the dfn at least? sounds like you're building a search engine now instead of a social network?
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aaronpk are you sharing progress on this elsewhere? like maybe as screenshots on your website?
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aaronpk p3k changes a lot and i always regret not posting more short progress updates to my tag https://aaronparecki.com/tag/p3k
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tantek__ aaronpk, indeed. though with /Falcon I tend to just update the wiki page because frankly all the small incremental improvements sound too minor to be worth posting about on my own site as separate posts :/
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AngeloGl1 and..
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AngeloGl1 i've experimented with using browser-automation tools to render a "walkthrough" of sorts
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: great, code document is good. I mean about all the stuff in chat above ^^^ which might be better suited to dumping on the wiki page instead of in chat
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tantek__ hard to understand what you want to discuss when you drop a block of several subjects in chat at once
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AngeloGl1 the walkthrough is painful but beautiful
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AngeloGl1 you script the browser, for better and for worse
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AngeloGl1 i've begun
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AngeloGl1 it'll wind up at https://understory.live
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AngeloGl1 don't try to get a node installed using any documentation their though
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AngeloGl1 work in progress.. clearly
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aaronpk since cnpy.live seems to not resolve, maybe start by updating the link in the wiki to the new URL?
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: what are you looking for feedback on?
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AngeloGl1 User Agent
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AngeloGl1 i thnk
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AngeloGl1 like it ties in to robots.txt
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: ^^^ can you capture that kind of out loud thinking on the wiki instead of chat?
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tantek__ or at least in #indieweb-chat?
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aaronpk what is user agent?
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Loqi User-agent is a common HTTP header that generally indicates the name, version, and a URL for the application making the request, and is also a robots_txt command (User-agent:) that tells specific robots by name to obey the following commands https://indieweb.org/user-agent
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tantek__ if it's not about a specific #indieweb-dev topic
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tantek__ it doesn't really belong here
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aaronpk there are some examples of what user agents people are using there
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AngeloGl1 i went to /user-agent before coming here
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AngeloGl1 i always go to wiki and try to research first
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AngeloGl1 and this is another reminder
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aaronpk a fork of.. what exactly?
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sknebel AngeloGl1: especially when it's a crawler (=visiting multiple pages, not just individually requested things) I think having contact info (which the owners domain is) in the agent is good practice
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AngeloGl1 each one will be the codification of an implementation
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AngeloGl1 non-forks will be identical
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AngeloGl1 forks could be different
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AngeloGl1 they aren't specs, their implementations
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AngeloGl1 philosphical whil vaporware
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AngeloGl1 AND
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AngeloGl1 i'd much rather link to polished products when they're linkable..
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AngeloGl1 :)
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aaronpk yeah i don't think anyone was asking you to document your software in the wiki, just that you might be getting blank stares in chat when you type 20+ lines of text spanning multiple topics here
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AngeloGl1 really i'm not doing anything that exotic
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AngeloGl1 just where aaron builds a service to enable thin clients
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AngeloGl1 i'm making a monolith
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AngeloGl1 everyone knows what a crawler is
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AngeloGl1 'bout sums it up
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AngeloGl1 :)
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tantek what is a crawler
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "crawler" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "crawler is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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AngeloGl1 i remember the term skutter was thrown around in the first era of semweb
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tantek__ AngeloGl1: if it's not practical dev talk / brainstorming, please take it to #indieweb-chat
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AngeloGl1 i'll use User-Agent: Canopy (example.org)
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[eddie] myfreeweb++
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Loqi myfreeweb has 2 karma over the last year
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[eddie] I decided I want to shift my Media endpoint to be an AWS Serverless endpoint that saves files to an S3 bucket. And then, I found myfreeweb already made one!
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[eddie] https://github.com/myfreeweb/sweetroll/tree/master/sweetroll-mu
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[eddie] 🙌
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tantek__ what is chat
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Loqi chat is informal messaging offered by numerous services, a few of which interoperate or bridge with each other, and also a set of brainstorms for what an amazing indieweb friendly chat web app/site could do https://indieweb.org/chat
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tantek__ what is Briar
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Briar" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Briar is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ Briar is https://briarproject.org/ an open source project and software for secure [[messaging]], including peer-to-peer encrypted messaging, fully decentralized client to client with an Android app and iOS coming soon.
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Loqi ok
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tantek__ chat << Briar
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Briar]]" to the "See Also" section of /chat https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=52342&oldid=44916
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tantek__ Briar << chat
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Loqi ok, I added "[[chat]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Briar https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=52343&oldid=52341