#dev 2018-10-19

2018-10-19 UTC
[cleverdevil] and eli_oat joined the channel
#
gRegorLove I think so. Currently it follows https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-equivalence
#
@jgmac1106 @benwerd you are right. @mapkyca webmention badges will be super easy. I just installed a few of @cleverdevil's idno plugins and 90% of the work is already done. (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1zFvbY) (twitter.com/_/status/1053088323609247744)
eli_oat, renem, jjuran, deathrow1, [dave] and cweiske joined the channel
#
Zegnat gRegorLove, GWG, following URL equivalence sounds right. The scheme definitely matters for URLs.
#
Zegnat If you are hosting an h-card that should both be available as http and https URL, rather than having one canonical URL, I guess you could use a scheme-relative URL? <a href="//example.com/"> should be fine if you offer the page on both http and https
sebsel, swentel, [Rose], eli_oat, petermolnar, [Vanessa] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
@diplix ↩️ @jpmens zwei juristen, vier meinungen: https://sebastiangreger.net/2018/05/indieweb-privacy-challenge-webmentions-backfeeds-gdpr/ https://ascraeus.org/micro/1525556293/ (twitter.com/_/status/1053254974153674752)
[Rose], [jeremycherfas], [kevinmarks], [Vincent] and eli_oat joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] anyway I can move my aperture account between domains?
#
aaronpk there's no self-service way for that, but I can fix it up on my end for you
#
[jgmac1106] Thx, will send a note later. You are probably swamped over next few days....logged into Indigenous to leave comments... And I was like uh oh
swentel joined the channel
#
@hardfire ↩️ I ran a personal indieweb hack session today. Almost have webmentions working on my blog. \m/ (twitter.com/_/status/1053270926656266242)
#
@jgmac1106 ↩️ @black_puppydog disable the public comments plugin. You will still receive webmentions. (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/7H83a) (twitter.com/_/status/1053273950296461314)
[Rose] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] If I wanted to do my long form article writing as plain HTML files do I need to include stuff in the header so people can subscribe to the feed?
eli_oat joined the channel
#
Zegnat [jgmac1106], probably? There needs to be a feed somewhere and it needs to be discoverable, I’d say
snarfed, bradenslen and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] https://eddiehinkle.com/media/4872a37e6e85ecb78abcff4d4564e645.png
#
[eddie] I added a button to upload to my Media Endpoint to my Homescreen! 🙌 Now this feels like the future
#
[eddie] I think that definitely means I need to transition my media endpoint from my server to AWS S3, though!
#
[eddie] It also made me realize my media endpoint doesn’t support video files because they are too large. And I definitely need to fix that!
#
aaronpk whoa what does it do from your home screen?
[Khurt] and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[eddie] It allows me to choose photos from my library or from the files app
#
aaronpk oh neat
#
aaronpk I have one set up to be a share target but I kind of like that idea
#
[eddie] https://eddiehinkle.com/media/7f10c40c0cb9c2d786e6160e2d0949da.png
#
[eddie] Yeah it’s great because I can use this both as a share target or if there is no media in the input, it’ll make me choose
#
[eddie] It also supports formatting as url, markdown or html
#
[eddie] And supports multiple file uploads
#
aaronpk did you make that as a separate app or is it one of those workflow thingies?
#
[eddie] Yeah it’s a Workflow
#
[eddie] “Shortcut”
#
aaronpk ohh the new apple one?
#
[eddie] Yep
#
aaronpk whoa, my ones from Workflow are in there
#
aaronpk I guess they renamed the app when they bought it?!
#
[eddie] Yep, when iOS 12 was released, they renamed the app as part of the update
#
aaronpk can you share that workflow? mine doesn't prompt me for photos
#
[eddie] Yeah
#
[eddie] What is Shortcuts?
#
Loqi Shortcuts is an iOS app formerly known as Workflow used to automate various actions https://indieweb.org/Shortcuts
#
[eddie] It’s on there
#
aaronpk oh nice
#
aaronpk wait that's mine
#
[eddie] Oh there’s a link
#
aaronpk oh yours is the icloud link, but has my description and screenshots, that's confusing :)
#
[eddie] Haha I tried to separate them but yeah I haven’t put any photos up for mine yet
#
[eddie] I need to add more there 🙂although I did just realize I think that link has the alert pop up from when I was testing.
#
[Rose] I have one for posting what you're reading that talks to an API, I ought to post that
[Vincent] joined the channel
#
[eddie] This one is smoother https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/794029f98c944ce68c82f7df47cf93f7
#
[eddie] Interesting. What’s that do, [Rose]?
#
[Rose] Basically you type in the title of a book, it looks it up in the API, asks you to pick which one it is, and then posts it with the 📚 emoji and a link to the book in question
#
[eddie] Oh cool!
#
[Rose] https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/15aab45b08b1427aac10107a5375c041
#
[Rose] I'll post it in the Wiki when not on wobbly train wifi later - complete with an example of what it creates post wise
#
[eddie] Now I’m trying to see if I can build a Shortcut that does IndieAuth to retrieve a token 😁
#
[eddie] Awesome!
#
[Rose] (I was trying to get the image to work too, but with your Media endpoint that could be done easily!)
#
[Rose] Please do! 😄
#
aaronpk I made mine copy the URL to the clipboard and show it as a notification too, which I thought was a nice touch :)
#
[eddie] Yeah, I used yours as a base for mine, aaronpk 🙂 That is super handy
#
[eddie] It’s nice because it gives you a reassurance that it worked and I don’t know if Workflow did this before but Shortcuts will actually preview the first image url I have in the notification text
#
[eddie] So it even shows a preview of the uploaded image
#
aaronpk whoa nice
#
aaronpk Workflow doesn't do that
#
aaronpk or if it does, I wasn't triggering it right
#
[eddie] Yeah, I don’t think I was doing anything special for that.
#
aaronpk ooh we should have a Workflow sharing party session tomorrow
#
aaronpk er, Shortcuts
#
[Rose] Please!
#
[Rose] I have Automators (my podcast) stickers with me too 😄
tonz, jackjamieson and jgmac1106 joined the channel
#
jgmac1106 [zegnat] I know how to correctly markup the h-feed and I can find a ton of tutorials on adding rss feeds to static pages but didn’t know if I need to do anything else for microsub readers
#
Zegnat You shouldn’t, no.
#
Zegnat The feed subscribing backend looks for a feed it understands. For the new Microsub backends like Aperture that includes h-feed. For most other ones it is just Atom/RSS being linked from your head
#
swentel I do wonder though
#
swentel do we have some discovery ?
#
swentel like, my h-feed is on example.com/timeline
#
swentel and if I would enter example.com, how can it find that ?
#
jackjamieson jgmac1106: Let me know once you have a feed of long-form articles - That'd be a good case for testing Yarns' parsing
#
[Rose] There's the standard header you can include on pages to tell applications where to find the RSS feed
#
[Rose] e.g. <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="RSS" href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheRssBlog">
#
jackjamieson For h-feeds, I see people use <link rel="feed" ...
#
petermolnar alternate should be ok
#
jackjamieson e.g. on aaronparecki.com -> <link rel="feed" href="/all">
#
petermolnar it doesn't make sense to introduce rel=feed
#
swentel bridgy uses that at least
#
petermolnar is there a thing ostatus/activitypub uses regularly?
#
aaronpk I thought rel=feed was a thing
#
aaronpk https://indieweb.org/rel-feed
#
jackjamieson http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-feed
#
petermolnar huh
#
petermolnar I wasn't aware of that, sorry
#
jackjamieson That said, I see what you mean petermolnar, I'm not quite clear on why rel=feed is better than rel=alternate -- Maybe because so h-feed is not framed as an "alternate" but rather a canonical feed?
#
swentel ok, so then I'd have to look in aperture or xray why my feed isn't found and do some coding maybe
#
swentel or at least propose
#
aaronpk alternate is supposed to be for an alternate version of the page
#
aaronpk so home page -> h-feed page doesn't maek sense as rel=alternate
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] will do [jackjamieson] in a meeting about how our CRM is going to save graduate education...it might be sooner than you think
#
Zegnat Imagine I want people who want to follow me to know to go to licit.li. I can then have a link header with rel="feed" and href="https://licit.li/" on my profile page (https://vanderven.se/martijn/) and people will hve an easy way to follow me.
#
Zegnat In no way is licit.li an alternate edition of my profile page though
#
jackjamieson Right, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification
#
[jgmac1106] nvm Dean just sat at my table......
#
jackjamieson BTW swentel, what's your feed url that isn't found? I could also see if Yarns can discover it
#
swentel jackjamieson, https://realize.be/timeline (rel="feed")
#
swentel I had to enter that exact url in aperture to follow myself (which isn't /that/ big of a deal of course)
#
[jgmac1106] ...well it's an interim Dean...maybe 1/2 productive on dev tasks
eli_oat joined the channel
#
jackjamieson [jgmac1106] lol, a real perk of still being a student is that I don't have faculty meetings, but I still feel like I'm 1/2 productive on dev tasks most of the time :)
#
jackjamieson swentel: adding realize.be worked with Yarns, so I'm not sure what might have gone wrong elsewhere. (Using alltogethernow.io, I added https://realize.be and it was able to detect and add /timeline)
#
swentel oh, that's cool
#
aaronpk hm I think I may not have added rel=feed support to xray haha
#
swentel I'll see if can code that
#
aaronpk hm I think I may have skipped it for now because it would require an additional http request to know what kind of feed it is
#
aaronpk (to know whether it's something that can actually be subscribed to)
#
swentel mm yeah, makes sense
#
jackjamieson Ah, I just skipped that step and assume it's an h-feed
#
jackjamieson https://github.com/jackjamieson2/yarns-microsub-server/blob/master/includes/class-microsub-parser.php#L185-L192
snarfed joined the channel
#
sknebel aaronpk: you mentioned a good document on bidi-text yesterday... you know where to find it?
#
aaronpk hmmm
#
aaronpk I think it's this https://www.w3.org/International/articles/inline-bidi-markup/uba-basics
#
aaronpk it looks like it has new formatting since I last read it but I think that's the one
#
Zegnat Looks right, I just found https://www.w3.org/International/articles/inline-bidi-markup/ which also links to that basics page
#
aaronpk I must have seen an early draft of it
snarfed, jgmac1106, [jeremycherfas], [Rose] and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] bummer. No Shortcuts IndieAuth. lol
#
[eddie] Aside from the "client discovery" issues, there is also no way to get the code from the workflow://callback from what I can tell
#
[Rose] I have a file on my server I OAuth 2 for Shortcuts via, I should replicate that to IndieAuth
#
[eddie] lol Yeah I thought "I could add a file to my server" but then I decided that's kind of cheating my goal
#
[eddie] haha
#
[Rose] It works 🤷
#
[eddie] Still could make a useful utility
[schmarty], jgmac1106, eli_oat, [kiai], j12t, gRegorLove, [jgmac1106], snarfed and [eddie] joined the channel
#
[eddie] Is there a good generic term for a webmention (besides webmention or mention?)
#
[eddie] Some context: Every entity on my site is a post, and based on post-type-discovery it is a type of post
#
[eddie] So far I haven't added webmentions as native storage in my CMS, but I'm doing that now
#
[eddie] So I'm trying to think what is the base "entity" of a webmention. I'm thinking either a mention or response
#
[eddie] but not everything is a response, but I don't really like the sound of mention
#
[eddie] lol
#
swentel [eddie], I called it webmention in the drupal module
#
swentel and it's stored in the webmention_entity table here
#
[eddie] Hmmm I just don't like the term webmention as an entity... I don't know why 😕
#
[eddie] But that makes sense
#
[eddie] Thanks 🙂
#
swentel hmm never felt weird to me
#
swentel matter of taste I guess :)
#
AngeloGladding /mentions
#
[eddie] I guess I don't like the term webmention as an entity because it's the technology. But from a UX layperson side what is it?
#
AngeloGladding i had the same thought process
[Khurt] joined the channel
#
swentel Site notification ?
#
swentel hmm .. no, that feels wird
#
swentel *weird
#
AngeloGladding had a similar problem with websub/feeds/subscriptions
#
[eddie] Hmmm yeah notifications is like an action
#
AngeloGladding finally ran w/ "follow"
#
[eddie] mentions I guess makes sense because twitter uses mentions as a public user facing term
#
[eddie] and whether the person is linking to your post, replying to you or liking something, they are essentially "mentioning" you
#
swentel I don't have to with likes
#
swentel seems more like some 'interaction'
#
[eddie] yeah, that's why I leaned towards response
#
[eddie] but then a link to you isn't a response. haha
#
[eddie] interaction is interesting
#
AngeloGladding how isn't a like a mention?
#
@Dreamseer Gibt es einen coolen Trick, mit dem ich über den WordPress-API-Endpunkt einkommende Webmentions loggen kann? Mir fehlen welche von OwnYourSwarm. #indieweb https://marcgoertz.de/2018/fehlende-webmentions-bei-person-tags (twitter.com/_/status/1053364403796623360)
#
swentel hmm .. because it's more of an emotional (re)action to something
#
swentel dunno .. :)
#
[eddie] goes searching through a theasuras
#
swentel hehehe
#
swentel I'm nearing a beta for the drupal module, I hope I can catch the Drupal UX maintainer again before that to review the interfaces
#
swentel he usually has good suggestions
#
swentel and he speaks the same language as me, so it's easy to discuss
#
[eddie] awesome!
#
swentel of course, since it's dutch, we might have a problem again to get a good translation ... :)
#
AngeloGladding a mention could just be a link on a non-microformatted webpage -- i still want to treat that as a first-class "mention"
#
AngeloGladding albeit lo-fidelity
#
AngeloGladding but still cache and screen capture for archive
#
AngeloGladding some mentions can be [re]actions or replies or interactions and if there's a benefit to superclass them at a later date so be it
#
AngeloGladding was my thinking..
#
AngeloGladding eddie because i heard you talking about micropub h-card support the other day..
#
AngeloGladding that too was a new "post type" that i've had to come up with a place for
#
AngeloGladding i'm storing contacts in the same fashion as notes, images, follows
#
AngeloGladding whereas mentions are being store like feed subscriptions
#
AngeloGladding my stuff vs. others' stuff
#
AngeloGladding but the line is blurred and i'm really interested in how others are handling it
#
snarfed hey aaronpk, i may need your help managing some granary traffic from aperture/watchtower
#
snarfed looks like someone added hundreds of individual instagram profile feeds to their reader around 2:30-3pm pst 10/11
#
snarfed so now granary is pretty much constantly rate limited by IG
#
snarfed any chance you could add X-Forwarded-For or something similar so i can selectively throttle or block individual aperture users?
jjuran joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh man hahaha
#
Loqi aaronpk: lol
#
[eddie] what? hundreds??
#
[eddie] wow
#
swentel oh, instagram has feeds ?
#
swentel but only if you have an account I guess ..
#
[eddie] granary creates feeds using the silo api
snarfed joined the channel
#
swentel ah right
#
[eddie] !tell AngeloGladding I am planning on storing Cards as an entity as well. It'll be a combination of Contacts (People) and Venues
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] !tell AngeloGladding So I guess that puts me at three entities: Posts, Cards and "Mentions" (unless I find a better term)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
swentel I have the same thing
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] I have probably 70 instagram feeds in Aperture.
#
[cleverdevil] May be me... oops!
#
[cleverdevil] (Also happy to just remove them)
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk [cleverdevil]: did you add them all on the 11th?
#
[cleverdevil] Entirely possible.
#
aaronpk hah k
#
[cleverdevil] I don't remember when, but its not hundreds.
#
[cleverdevil] Its like 60 or something
#
[cleverdevil] Was having so much trouble with the sessions expiring I just decided to follow individual public profiles instead.
#
[cleverdevil] But, I can go back to the old way.
#
snarfed sorry for misrepresenting, [cleverdevil]. thank you!
#
snarfed root cause, as usual, is that scraping is bad and doesn't scale, especially for IG. :(:(:(
#
[cleverdevil] Yeah, no worries.
#
snarfed is tempted to remove it from granary, at least from the service, entirely
#
[cleverdevil] I probably could have been more thoughtful 🙂
#
[cleverdevil] Funny enough, I've been tinkering with https://github.com/ping/instagram_private_api/blob/master/README.md
#
aaronpk the only trick with Aperture is it groups feed fetches so it's not guaranteed that one feed is fetched by one user
#
snarfed eh. users should never really be at fault, regardless of what they do. it's our (developers') job to handle whatever users throw at us
#
[cleverdevil] As a way to potentially bring in everything else like "stories" and self-host it.
#
[cleverdevil] But, I am a bit wary.
#
snarfed [cleverdevil]: yes! except that either scrapes, like granary, or asks the user for their IG password or cookie, which is bad. (and i'm guilty of too :( )
#
aaronpk and every feed is treated the same so I don't yet have a mechanism to say this feed corresponds to this user
#
[cleverdevil] Honestly, this is sort of like with Facebook... at some point we should just get the message that they don't want us...
#
snarfed yup
#
[cleverdevil] It makes me sad though, because I really do enjoy the content I follow on Instagram.
#
snarfed aaronpk: understood. might be nice to at least have a mechanism to determine whether *anyone* is still following a given feed
#
[cleverdevil] (Much more than I ever did with Facebook).
#
snarfed granary load before and after adding these IG feeds :P https://snarfed.org/granary_ig.png
#
snarfed (still small, only problem is IG's rate limiting :( )
#
[cleverdevil] Wow, that's a pretty low throttling threshold.
snarfed and j12t joined the channel
#
aaronpk Hah wow
#
aaronpk I'll probably add number of users, and also if only one , a user I'd
#
aaronpk IF
#
aaronpk id
swentel and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] FWIW, I hacked together a script that uses that private Instagram API to generate an h-feed.
#
[cleverdevil] (It only does photos now, not videos or stories)
j12t joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] .... and it works with Aperture.
#
[cleverdevil] Now, I am generating a static HTML h-feed on my web server every 15 minutes with the last 100 non-ad photos from my Instagram timeline, and subscribing directly to that HTML file in Aperture.
#
[cleverdevil] \o/
#
snarfed [cleverdevil]: hmm! sounds similar to https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ ? cool!
#
snarfed [cleverdevil]++
#
Loqi [cleverdevil] has 38 karma in this channel over the last year (74 in all channels)
#
[cleverdevil] Yes, very similar, though very much a dirty hack 😄
#
[cleverdevil] (No scraping involved)
#
[cleverdevil] But, I do have to authenticate with my username/password, but after first login, I cache the state so that subsequent runs can reuse the session.
#
[cleverdevil] The bonus is that it should be easy for me to add in stories/videos.
#
jacky word esp since they've brought it to desktop
#
jacky if they had DMs on desktop/web, I'd probably remove the app from my phone tbh
#
[cleverdevil] I removed the Instagram app from my phone last week.
#
[cleverdevil] Too much creepy tracking./
#
jacky yeah learning from their new parents