#dev 2018-11-08

2018-11-08 UTC
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mblaney aaronpk if there's no author on an h-entry I fall back to h-feed p-name. If that doesn't exist I scrape <title> from the html.
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mblaney what is private webmention?
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Loqi The Private Webmention protocol is an extension to Webmention that supports sending and verifying Webmentions for posts that require access control https://indieweb.org/private-webmention
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[kevinmarks] The classic feed model is to have author allowed at both feed and entry level, with the entry overriding the feed
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kisik21 anyoneknows why webmention.io is down?]
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kisik21 anyoneknows why webmention.io is down?
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kisik21 ouch
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petermolnar kisik21: yes, there's something wrong with it
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@jgmac1106 So changed my feed in http://micro.blog so only post with #mb tag will syndicate to http://micro.blog (and of course webmentions). I need to turn off Twitter>Mastodon and then try Microblog's new ActivityPub integration (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1inEXK) (twitter.com/_/status/1060514934746988544)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ For people who installed gRSShopper be easy to track webmentions between sites, should be able to surface pingbacks for everyone else in the OPML if we wanted to add that layer of connections. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/8GmSI) (twitter.com/_/status/1060518654029299713)
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aaronpk Oops probably cause I got part way through an upgrade yesterday
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sknebel what is timezone?
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Loqi timezones are a way to create dependencies in your code on legislative bodies in countries you have never heard of[1] https://indieweb.org/timezone
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sknebel A tool to extract data from Open Street Map (OSM) to build the boundaries of the world's timezones.] (libraries based on this linked in readme)
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sknebel timezone << [https://github.com/evansiroky/timezone-boundary-builder
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://github.com/evansiroky/timezone-boundary-builder" to the "See Also" section of /timezone https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=53641&oldid=51045
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Loqi [evansiroky] timezone-boundary-builder: A tool to extract data from Open Street Map (OSM) to build the boundaries of the world's timezones.
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kisik21 can I link an h-feed from index page without making index-page an h-feed?
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kisik21 also - how to handle pagination in h-feeds?
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kisik21 can I keep an h-feed that would contain only last X posts, for example?
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[eddie] On the index page if you add a header link to an h-feed you can put rel=“feed” on that link and it should work. More info: https://brid.gy/about#link
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sknebel and rel="prev"/rel="next" for pagination
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ http://Wordpress.com supports webmentions using https://Brid.gy (can use Blogger, Medium, etc) http://wordpress.org has plugins, Known and http://micro.blog work out of the box. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/J98SK) (twitter.com/_/status/1060585141846884352)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ http://Wordpress.com supports webmentions using https://Brid.gy (can use Blogger, Medium, etc) http://wordpress.org has plugins, Known and http://micro.blog work out of the box. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/J98SK) (twitter.com/_/status/1060585141846884352)
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kisik21 sknebel: is rel="prev" used for older or newer posts
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kisik21 ?
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aaronpk it means the previous page. so if you are sorting from newest to oldest it means older posts. but if you are sorting oldest to newest it means newer posts.
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kisik21 uh... I don't understand. My first page contains newest posts. rel="prev" or rel="next" on its only pagination link?
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kisik21 sorry
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aaronpk prev then
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kisik21 ok thanks
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aaronpk ugh fitbit does not understand timezone changes very well
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sebsel aaronpk ah! Spec says "POST", but Together and Aperture do "GET" on Preview!
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sebsel https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec#Preview
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aaronpk orly
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sebsel ah and Indigenous for iOS does not really do preview / subscribing
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sebsel which also means I really need to offer my own frontend for Leesmap for people to add feeds if they don't use Together :)
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aaronpk or bug me and eddie to add subscribing to monocle and indigenous
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sebsel that would work too
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sebsel !tell swentel Does the IndieWeb plugin for Drupal support the Microsub 'preview' action? I think it does not, from the code I read, but I might have missed it. See also https://github.com/indieweb/microsub/issues/34 :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [sebsel] #34 GET or POST on preview
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sebsel I also like how Monocle very conservatively fetches the feeds once, and puts them in the session, whereas Together polls the channels in the background every 15 seconds or so :P
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aaronpk the channel list?
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aaronpk yeah it also reloads it when things are marked read :)
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sebsel I keep seeing requests coming in for it.
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sebsel hm, but closing the window makes it stop, so that's good at least.
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sebsel Ah, no. Then it just polls every ~30s or so
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kisik21 aaronpk: does webmention.io implement salmentions?
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aaronpk kisik21: it's something the site that receives webmentions needs to implement
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aaronpk oh I guess it's both ends really, and no webmention.io won't recognize that it received a salmention vs a regular webmention
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kisik21 sad. Wamted to get comment threads on my site, I gueess I'll need to have some sort of script on my side to both receive webmentions and process them
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aaronpk yeah, I need to do that too, there are just a bunch higher priority things I guess :)
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kaushalmodi cweiske: This is deja vu ^^
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kaushalmodi may be some day, you have a chance to add salmentions support to commentpara.de :)
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kaushalmodi but yes, might be worth the effort if that is synced up with webmention.io
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sknebel even better: someone fork both of them and run their own copies of it :D
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aaronpk :)
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sknebel this is an interesting point: https://indieweb.org/Salmention#Comment_thread_on_separate_page_from_post
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aaronpk huh I don't think i've seen that
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aaronpk also not clear on the suggestion to "forward the webmention usptream"
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aaronpk looks like that is from singpolyma https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Salmention&diff=45924&oldid=36946
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aaronpk need examples of a page like described
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sknebel I interpreted it as "send the same WM payload, but to the endpoint of the "parent" of the page replied to"
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aaronpk found a recent blog post and I do see comments on the same page as the post https://singpolyma.net/2018/09/rust-factory-without-box-trait-object/
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sknebel also has the nice side-effect that it can "jump" sites that don't support anything special
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aaronpk I feel like there is something missing there
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aaronpk I don't see how verification works
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sknebel You have a post A. I reply at B (but my site, as currently, doesn't show Webmentions at all). Someone else replies to me at C
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sknebel I send a webmention "B mentions A", your site records "B is a response to A"
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sknebel after validation
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sknebel C sends a webmention to me "C mentions B"
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sknebel and *also* can send one to you with "C mentions B"
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aaronpk ahh so then I recognize that B is a comment i've received, and then I verify that C does actually mention B
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sknebel your site says "oh, I know about B, that's in a tree I'm interested in" and can verify that C actually mentions B
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sknebel at least that's how I understand the proposal
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aaronpk that does make sense
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aaronpk seems less fragile than relying on a site to display all webmentions properly marked up with mf2 too
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aaronpk this way doesn't require any new markup actually, which is nice
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sknebel yep
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aaronpk and also would work with plain links without microformats
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sebsel I'm actually thinking about removing webmentions from my HTML, and fetching them with Javascript, to use js;dr to my advantage
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sebsel and this would then not break the flow indeed
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aaronpk right which is a common pattern especially with static sites using webmention.io or similar services
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sknebel "to use js;dr to my advantage" ?
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sebsel So I can still show webmentions, but not to parsers / not linking back to other sites.
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kisik21 I've implemented webactions on my site! but they look kinda... not obvious. If you click on a "like" button, it is a like. If you click on "comment" counter, it's a comment.
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sebsel That would also mitigate A mentioning B, B showing A as a response, which actually makes B mentioning A.
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sknebel curious why don't you want to show them? (we should probably document such concerns somewhere)
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sebsel mainly because of the circular mentions I guess. But also because I don't want the microformats-blob I have now
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sknebel have you encountered the circular mentions as an issue somewhere?
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sebsel I could just not mark them up of course.
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aaronpk i've had a couple circular mentions
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sebsel what is circular mentions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "circular mentions" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "circular mentions is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sebsel is writing some stuff down
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sknebel I wonder if a pointer to A would be useful for A's site to identify the context, or just another thing to handle that's not really necessary
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aaronpk I would be worried about adding a lot of extra validations for the extra parameter
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sebsel circular mentions are Webmentions for pages that mention another page because that other page mentions the first page.
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Loqi ok
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sebsel That at least gives me the right markup :P
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sknebel aaronpk: yeah. it'd really only be useful as the lookup key for where to look for B
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sknebel but I guess most storage systems can solve looking up B directly
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sknebel the entire proposal also takes some control from B
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sknebel since they now can't control what C-posts A sees
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kisik21 can someone test webaction buttons on https://fireburn.ru? they don't work for me for some reason (markup is present, so are JS files)
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Loqi Vika
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sknebel don't have indie-config setup for my site, so can't test
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kisik21 have micropub? use this: https://voxpelli.com/demo/indie-config/
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kisik21 I use it
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sknebel sebsel: how did you opt out of the back link?
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sebsel source-diving my own blog I found this one: <data class="p-bridgy-omit-link" value="maybe" />
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sebsel which omit's the link if it's <280 chars
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sebsel but, it could also be <140 still, that could be the thing
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sebsel No I'm at 138 in that tweet. Oh well.
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sebsel It's the only example of true/false/maybe I know of :P
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sknebel right now there is no single mention "bridgy" on https://seblog.nl/2018/11/08/2/reply for me
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] Je hebt al een domein, dus je zit al een tijdje op het IndieWeb ;) Maar inderdaad! Je kunt er veel interessante dingen mee. Wees welkom!
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sknebel also, it has to be inside the h-entry, since it is a property
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sebsel aaaaa, that's it!
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sebsel I moved my h-entry from the <body> to the <article>, and this is below that.
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sknebel (bridgy logs got me on that track, they have the full mf2 parse result of posts: https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1541710752&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lySwsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiJGh0dHBzOi8vc2VibG9nLm5sLzIwMTgvMTEvMDgvMi9yZXBseQwLEgdQdWJsaXNoGICAgICAgIAKDA )
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sebsel Yeah, I have a bit of a hacky flow.
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sebsel Micropub sends a syndicate-to, and my blog just stores that in the file and actually uses it to render this bridgy-link
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sebsel When in my webmention-receiving code, I check if it's bridgy publish who I send the webmention
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sknebel you can also put the omit-link thing on the bridgy link if you prefer that
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sebsel and then I remove the syndicate-to and replace it with the syndication-property, with the link in the header the webmention returns
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sebsel can I?
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sebsel I will move it then.
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sknebel https://brid.gy/about#omit-link
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sebsel sknebel++ thanks for asking, fixed it now :)
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Loqi sknebel has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (84 in all channels)
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[eddie] !tell sebsel: Please bug me about adding subscribing to Indigenous. That was supposed to be in before it went public and I still just haven't gotten around to it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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