GWG"Alternatively, if an h-feed has a u-url u-uid property that is not the URL of the current page itself, then that u-url u-uid URL can be treated as the canonical full feed. "
[tantek]GWG, are you needing an explicit url/uid for the specific feed? Because you don't have access to the HTML ID of the h-feed element while you're doing your feed discovery?
[grantcodes]It has also supported system settings based dark mode in edge, way before the current osx dark mode excitement 😛 I guess I should implement that as well though
[tantek]On one hand I'm not sure if that's something to rely on. On the other hand "ID" is very well defined in HTML to supposed to be unique for the page which maps well to a uid based on the URL, and may be "good enough" to solve these use-cases.
[tantek]!tell sknebel perhaps capture some of these ideas (capture ID on h-* element explicitly on the item, perhaps *also* use it to generate an implied u-uid with the URL of the page in the absence of any explicit u-uid on the h-*) in the issue you are filing / proposal for microformats2-parsing/issues
GWG[tantek]: I'd have to go through and search for it. The problem I have to think about is this. How do I match the return from php-mf2 with a second run?
[eddie]tantek regarding the conversations around people centric focus over feeds, how do we address the issue of people having various feeds? For example, I don’t want to list all of my feeds on my homepage, but if we want someone to focus on following “me” I should be able to “advertise” my available feeds from my h-card
[eddie]similarly Zegnat’s h-card has NO feeds on the same domain. So how would I follow Zegnat in this line of thinking? I definitely think that’s a direction to head to, but there is a missing technical barrier between me entering Zegnat’s url into a “follow” box and me being able to know what feeds Zegnat might make available
[eddie]hmm I think you misunderstand. So my identity is eddiehinkle.com but I have different feeds: a timeline feed (eddiehinkle.com/timeline), articles feed (/articles), work feed (/work). How would someone given my Url be able to be given those options: “Timeline, Articles, Work,etc”
[eddie]I shouldn’t have to display the content of the feeds themselves on my homepage in order for those to be discoverable if someone is attempting to “follow me” rather than “follow a feed”
[eddie]Hmm nope, sure enough that almost exact use case is detailed on /h-feed. I wonder why I ended up with that misconception that it was frowned upon
[eddie]That’s definitely a solution, rel=feed all the main feed options for users from the homepage with the title providing user friendly explanations of feed content
Loqisknebel: [tantek] left you a message 10 hours ago: perhaps capture some of these ideas (capture ID on h-* element explicitly on the item, perhaps *also* use it to generate an implied u-uid with the URL of the page in the absence of any explicit u-uid on the h-*) in the issue you are filing / proposal for microformats2-parsing/issues
petermolnarsknebel: thank you very much for the tip, so far, it doesn't work: 2018/11/18 12:02:00 main.go:204: invalid character 'm' looking for beginning of value
jgmac1106People need cues on feeds to follow. I wouldn’t know to follow eddiehinkle.com/timeline if he didn’t tell me…yes I put the actual feeds and people told me to just use a regular link with rel=“feed”
[kevinmarks]A lot of blogging systems put id on the posts - historically that was what blogs looked like - daily/weekly pages with posts on, permalinks with id (or name if you go back far enough)
sknebelif you got multiple h-feeds in the page, one of them could e.g. be <div class="h-feed" id="recentArticles">..., and e.g. a reader could then remember that the user subscribed specifically to the feed with the id "recentArticles"
[tantek]E.g. for the page multifeed case, the consuming code can combine the canonical URL (per HTTP redirect semantics as noted in the issue) and construct a fragment reference only if needed to one h-feed when there are more than one in the page
[tantek]Right, there’s always a challenge in finding the right balance of where to put the “smarts”, in the parser for all microformats, or in the code for specific consuming use-cases
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "fragment url" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "fragment url is ____", a sentence describing the term)
LoqiA fragment is part of a URL, and typically refers to a fragment identifier at the end of a URL preceded by a # but may also refer to a media fragment which may use a fragment identifier or a query string https://indieweb.org/fragment
sknebeljgmac1106: regarding benefit over using p-name, the id is by design considered unique on the page, and one might consider the p-name to be less stable(?). for only the feed scenario the p-name thing might work (although see GWGs argument for making shareable URLs), but you'd loose the other use case
[tantek]I think the guidance there from a feed discovery algorithm perspective is to use that “id” if present is to have your code synthesize a “u-url” for the h-feed with that id as fragment
[jgmac1106]eddie trying to think the best way to display a ton of h-cards grouped into channels. What is your thinking? Currently just using ul and an h3 for the group name
[eddie]If you feel like you need to organize them because there are so many I might lean more towards exposing your relationship to these people through groups rather than by showing your channels
ZegnatMy thoughts on the feeds thing: we still need to try and document a discovery flow so implementations do not diverge too much. I have no thoughts on nickname caches atm, as I do not have one of my own in the pipeline.
ZegnatI will point out that my “proposal” was purely the flow I saw for tantek.com; so e.g. comments made about whether nesting inside h-card was important weren’t something I was trying to tackle at all
jgmac1106Could I do this if I have mutliple ratings in one h-review <p class=“p-category>Domain 1<span class “p-rating” value=“4”> Exemplary</span></p>
Zegnatjgmac1106, I am not sure what you mean. But if you have multiple p-rating on the same h-review there is probably no good way to separate them in the mf parser output
jgmac1106Trying to show a rubric that has an overall rating, then domain ratings, and possibly even a third layer. speaking psychometirically each scale in a rubric is an item so p-item makes sense in at that level, going a third level down didn’t know if p-note or p-category would be better
Loqi[Greg McVerry] workflow I was thinking
Journal website puts out call
you write draft, reply to call
open peer editors use journal or own website
they each write h-review as reply to draft
edits and revisions back and forth as replies
final draft syndicated to...
[jgmac1106]yes, now were looking like the json files I currently export....wondering if a json to mf2 would be easier than redoing everyone of my views and templates
[jgmac1106]I Can make a single holistic scale rubric for Academic reviews for now, I do not have a parser in ReVIEW so even I would not be consuming them yet.
[tantek] GWG are you using / following anything proposed here? https://indieweb.org/h-feed#feed_autodiscovery
[grantcodes] Doing some together updates and it's now got dark mode maps. Looks so good 🌚
[jgmac1106] Yeah! It works. Though now I see why I need to add a photo to the h-card of each h-entry
[eddie] tantek regarding the conversations around people centric focus over feeds, how do we address the issue of people having various feeds? For example, I don’t want to list all of my feeds on my homepage, but if we want someone to focus on following “me” I should be able to “advertise” my available feeds from my h-card
gRegorLove Interesting implied uid idea. I like it.
Loqi [mro] #78 false negative testing https://try.gogs.io/issue-5008
petermolnar !tell aaronpk is there any api or import way to populate aperture from an extermal source with subscriptions?
sknebel petermolnar: https://github.com/pstuifzand/ekster can do that as a client
[kevinmarks] Implied uid on h-entry with page url is going to be confusing
GWG So, if I could pass http://tantek.com#recentarticles instead of http://tantek.com and "Recent Articles" it is easier for most people. You can have a link to the feed that way
jacky yo so https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_Post_List i've added support for "limit" and "type" in my implementation (Koype)
Zegnat “wouldn’t work” ... you tell me jgmac1106, is this an expected or useful output? http://php.microformats.io/?id=20181118194148301