#dev 2018-11-24

2018-11-24 UTC
gRegorLove and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek]
what is naming
[eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie]
I think there are both. In most contexts (and in all contexts in my website) I use personal nicknames. Ash instead of Ashley for my wife, Mom and Dad for my parents, etc.
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[eddie]
But if I ever get my nickname cache to power my phone’s contacts, I do use some “private” nicknames there. Nothing crazy, but more in the traditional sense for “petname” and I often use emojis too
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[eddie]
So if I ever get around to doing that syncing I’ll have to solve that problem, but until then we’re all set
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aaronpk
"personal nickname" is a good term
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Loqi
aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 5 hours, 35 minutes ago: feel free to add your own (or others) criticisms to /petname and/or create a Criticism section and feel free to move mine there too. Even if you just braindump your own personal discomfort with it, I think it's good to capture since no one here since to actually like the term.
eli_oat, jjuran, porquesammy, tantek and snarfed joined the channel
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jeremycherfas
!tell tantek, sknebel pet name is historically mainly a name people use for their loved ones. Nothing demeaning about it in that context. Maybe a UK/US divide.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
jeremycherfas: [eddie] left you a message 15 hours, 22 minutes ago: ohhh that makes sense, as far as real life usages.
KartikPrabhu, jeremych_, leg, iasai and barpthewire joined the channel
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sknebel
jeremycherfas yeah, that was how I learned it too
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Loqi
sknebel: jeremycherfas left you a message 3 hours, 55 minutes ago: pet name is historically mainly a name people use for their loved ones. Nothing demeaning about it in that context. Maybe a UK/US divide.
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jeremycherfas
Doesn't much matter, I suppose. In any case, hard to argue with The Man.
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jeremycherfas
And none of the people for whom I have pet names are ever likely to be involved in any IndieWeb activities, so I personally have no interest other than the use of language.
iasai, eli_oat, [jgmac1106], pstuifzand, pstuifzand_ and tantek joined the channel; pstuifzand left the channel
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Zegnat
sknebel++
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Loqi
sknebel has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (87 in all channels)
[jgmac1106] and [manton] joined the channel
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[manton]
[snarfed] Do you have any experience with ActivityPub replies, specifically how Mastodon determines what to put in "Toots" vs. "Toots and replies"? I figured if there was an inReplyTo that Mastodon wouldn't show that in the "Toots" tab or the timeline if you're not following that person, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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[manton]
Starting to think that Mastodon requires the first @-mention to be a recognized Mastodon user. Might explain what I'm seeing.
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aaronpk
I think that's the case yeah
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aaronpk
iirc I had to add the @-mention to get it to work, even tho I don't write my posts with the persons nickname I'm replying to
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[manton]
I think I'm going to disable sending replies to Mastodon if no ActivityPub users are mentioned. Seems kind of wrong, but there's too much clutter otherwise.
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GWG
Afternoon
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sknebel
hi GWG
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GWG
I need to solve another posse problem
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GWG
I need to post on my own site and tag someone on Twitter easily.
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GWG
I have not done anything with tagging
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GWG
Not sure what Bridgy Publish does with this
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sknebel
tag or mention?
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GWG
I think mention
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sknebel
Twitter has @mentions and tags of people in photos
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GWG
This is a mention, but they say that I have to tag
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sknebel
I think bridgy just sends the text of your post through, if that contains @someone twitter interprets that
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GWG
I don't want to mess up on a technicality
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GWG
I will be the first one trying this Indieweb style
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GWG
That I know of
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GWG
I just have never @ mentioned anyone on my site
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GWG
Not even sure I have hashtagged
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Zegnat
Yeah, they mean to mention them when they say to “tag @Parkeology”
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GWG
I still think this is crazy
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GWG
But I am trying to do it right
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GWG
I assume if I do the @mention it will POSSE
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GWG
Maybe try pfefferle's auto hashtag code
snarfed, jjuran and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie]
!tell sknebel: awesome, I’ll take a look!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel
feel free to open issues for anything
[jgmac1106], benwerd and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie]
Re-thinking how I want to display webmentions on my site. I’ve gotten all previous webmentions downloaded from webmention.io and stored in a folder that matches the post they are associated with, which is pretty exciting!
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[eddie]
Step one was getting reacji displaying correctly. I was able to get that working correctly, which is great
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[eddie]
I’m pretty excited to have all my webmention data locally now rather than just periodically pulling all the data from webmention.io and having that be my “canonical” webmention data store.
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[eddie]
Since I have my nicknames cache and will be storing webmentions locally, I think I’m gonna take this time to add a webmention moderation queue, that matches some of the ideas discussed in the Berlin session
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[eddie]
!tell swentel I feel like I remember reading something about you being able to show webmentions you received in Indigenous for Android using the ?q=source query if I remember correctly? Is that something you are doing now? or something you were thinking about
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel
hm, wouldn't the queue be an ideal use for just a microsub channel?
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[eddie]
So I believe his idea (and what I’m currently thinking through) is moderating webmentions
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[eddie]
(or private)
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[eddie]
so if you receive a webmention and you have it listed as “unlisted” by default so it doesn’t show up on your page, then you need a way to moderate it or mark is as public
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GWG
[eddie]: You could show it in q=source as u-like and u-comment I suppose
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[eddie]
So there’s two ways you could display it. One would be when receiving the content of a post (I want to see and potentially moderate any posts connected to this post)
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[eddie]
The other way though, might be along the lines of the Post List queries we’ve been working on
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[eddie]
(and ?q=source might not be the right way but I think its similar)
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[eddie]
where you might say give me the 20 latest mentions
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[eddie]
or better yet, the 20 latest unlisted mentions
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[eddie]
I think this would be great for people who use Wordpress and might want to moderate their comments without going into Wordpress
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[eddie]
Initially I was just going to build a web interface on the backend of my website code, but I think this is definitely something that Micropub could help
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kisik21
I
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[eddie]
But back in 2015 we didn’t have the Post List query mechanism in Micropub AND the discussion was more about getting notifications than about moderating and editing content
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kisik21
I'm making a mention shortcode for my site that pulls data out of my blogroll. Should I mark up URLs as h-cards if the result would look like <a href="$site" class="u-url h-card">@someone</a>?
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kisik21
I'm kinda confused about it
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sknebel
[eddie]: sure, but you could do the moderation through the reader?
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sknebel
i.e. add a button to the posts you show in that channel which deletes/allows the comment
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sknebel
but I guess in other cases it kind of makes more sense in MP, since it already has access to your storage
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[eddie]
hmm interesting. since a Microsub server doesn’t have access to your storage
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[eddie]
oh haha yeah
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[eddie]
I think you could display the comment via Microsub and moderate it through Micropub but then that feels like you’re starting to cross polinate between the two
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[eddie]
kisik21 hmmm I can’t remember I can’t seem to find the page on the wiki
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[eddie]
I think that’s right, though
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[eddie]
maybe also a p-name class
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sknebel
without the u-url
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[eddie]
ohhh just h-card?
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sknebel
"u-url h-card" would be a u-url property on the post that has the h-card as a value
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sknebel
but you want an h-card with a u-url property
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sknebel
and for simple cases like that, you don't need to add a property explicitly, it gets implied
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sknebel
(the mini h-cards are the main reason the implied property thing exists from what I've gahtered about the history of mf2)
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kisik21
oh, forgot to mention that @someone would probably be a nickname like chat/Twitter username
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kisik21
because I like mentioning people by their Twitter usernames. Also it should probably help syndication w/ Bridgy
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sknebel
then you could add a span that marks the text as nickname property inside the link, to make that clear
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gRegorLove
Yeah, see how this markup implies the URL when it's parsed: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20181124215046288
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kisik21
sknebel: how do you write a class for a nickname? p-nickname?
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kisik21
I like h-entry class names, they're fairly easy to guess
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gRegorLove
You won't get a `name` attribute parsed that way, which may be fine. A lot of consumers of h-card will look for a `name` though.
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kisik21
Could I make a <span style="display: none">$name</span> somewhere in the h-card?
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kisik21
or is it not recommended?
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gRegorLove
usually recommend against invisible data like that, but yes if you did that with class="p-name" on the hidden element it would work.
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kisik21
maybe I shouldn't make nicknames visible altogether and just make it a name inside an h-card <a>
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kisik21
how do you show person-mentions? with @nickname or with Proper Name?
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gRegorLove
what is person tag?
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Loqi
A person tag (AKA people tag) is a person mention that is also a tag on a post that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tagging action by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card / or @-name, autocompleted or not https://indieweb.org/person-tag
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gRegorLove
person tags are a bit different than mentions. I don't display person tags of me currently.
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gRegorLove
If someone mentions a post of mine, I parse their h-card name, photo, and URL to display "John Doe mentioned this"
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kisik21
No, I mean, when you mention other people, how do you show it?
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KartikPrabhu
I use actual names
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gRegorLove
If I'm posting with the intent to syndicate to twitter, I only use their @-name with no h-card
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gRegorLove
Otherwise if it's in an article and I mention someone, I use their name with h-card
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kisik21
how much readers would I break with an unnamed h-card?
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gRegorLove
none, afaik
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kisik21
cool, then using <span class="p-nickname"> and no real names
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KartikPrabhu
there is no un named h-card. the p-name would get implied no?
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kisik21
With <span class="p-nickname"> as the only content php.microformats.io doesn't show name property in JSON
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KartikPrabhu
aah yes the p-* stops the implied name
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gRegorLove
Oh, I misread you kisik21
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gRegorLove
I don't think readers do anything special with h-cards in posts
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gRegorLove
except for your own h-cards, to display authorship
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[eddie]
Yeah, Indigenous only does things with author h-cards so that would be fine
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