#dev 2018-11-23

2018-11-23 UTC
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jacky snuck back home to spend some time working on jf2
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jacky it looks handy and might be more useful when attempting to mix in JSON-LD related stuff
tantek, the_hoomanist, tantek_, jjuran, [tantek] and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie] I'm not really a huge fan of the term petname but I don't know that there is a better term. Nickname is already taken and not a proper term for it... but petname doesn't sound right either. 😕
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[eddie] I'll probably just have to look through the theasuras and find a word to use internally for my CMS until a more broad reaching term is determined for us
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[eddie] use*
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aaronpk I really don't like the term petname
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[eddie] "a term of address used to express affection"
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[eddie] I think the proof is right there. I don't think emotion has anythign to do with the use
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[eddie] petname--
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Loqi petname has -1 karma over the last year
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[eddie] Since nickname is an array of strings, I might just make the first entry of nickname always be MY nickname, and any others in the array are nicknames from the person' h-card
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[eddie] I think anything more than nickname is really just trying to force it into a box that doesn't match
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jeremycherfas You can have a nickname for somebody that you might not want them to know. They might have a nickname for themselves that they would like people to use. Whatever happened to “handle”?
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Loqi jeremycherfas: [jgmac1106] left you a message 2 days, 8 hours ago: Got it all set... I did not understand category meant "their category" and who the hell has 1400x1400 images lying around
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KartikPrabhu pidgin uses "Alias"
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jeremycherfas I think most people looking to put a podcast in the iTunes directory probably create specific artwork for that purpose. I know I did.
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jeremycherfas Alias seems only public, to me.
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[eddie] alias and handle are both options but they seem very esoteric
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[eddie] I do kind of think nickname works though. jeremycherfas, you list two potential issues.
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[eddie] First that you can have a nickname for somebody that you might not want them to know. That is true, but would you really use that nickname inside your system?
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[eddie] Considering a nickname cache is to aid in communicating or documenting someone through @-mentions, person tags, and audience, it seems like a stretch that you would want to use a private nickname for them
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[eddie] The second was "They might have a nickname that they would like people to use". If that's the case they can markup p-nickname on their h-card and when I parse their h-card to my nickname cache I can see their nickname and decide if I want to use theirs in which case I don't need to add my own
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[eddie] so for example, Marty might use schmarty as p-nickname. If I wanted to use that as his nickname, I wouldn't have to add anything myself, it would automatically be inherited
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[eddie] But if I want to add my own custom reference on my own website, I should be able to override that, and that's where I would add a new "first" nickname entry, and the existing nickname would become nickname #2, etc
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[eddie] I should probably head to bed, it's late here in EST haha
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[eddie] 👋
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Loqi yea
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Zegnat We should probably capture some of that criticism of the name “petnames” on the wiki page as well.
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Zegnat I think the page was mostly created because a thing we have discussed from time to time (private defined-by-me nicknames for others) is known by that name in certain tech circles
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kisik21 Are there any guides for handling JSON in Micropub? I can't find anything on the wiki
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kisik21 ok nvm found it in official w3c spec
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[grantcodes] https://grant.codes/media/2018/11/23/indieweb-mentions.jpg
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[grantcodes] It's happening!
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jeremycherfas !tell eddie My point was more about the meaning of the word in ordinary speech. Nickname has those two kinds of use, private and public. I may refer to you as "Old Grouchy" when talking about you to, say, my friend, but, because I am a hypocrite, I wouldn't call you Old Grouchy to your face. If you referred to me as "Jerry" in public I would politely tell you that I really don't like to be called that, and would
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas you please call me Jeremy. But I couldn't stop you calling me that in private.
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Zegnat petermolnar: wouldn’t a bigger hosting provider like DreamHost et al run their own ddos protection?
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Zegnat That would be my expectation if I pay them to manage my online presence, that is. If it really is a straight up DDoS
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petermolnar the answer is maybe, the more likely answer is they are probably paying for someone else
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petermolnar ddos protection is very hard
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sknebel and at least at the lower pricepoints nobody has any qualms about just taking you offline if it gets to bad. handling DDoS *and* keeping you online is expensive
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[jgmac1106] Call me anything you want except late for dinner
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Zegnat “handling DDoS *and* keeping you online is expensive” I guess I knew that.
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Zegnat Didn’t Google start to do some sort of protection thing for journalists?
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Zegnat “the more likely answer is they are probably paying for someone else” - this is fine. As long as I as a consumer do not need to care I do not actually mind who protects
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[jgmac1106] Like everyone else I use Cloudfare. I can still get away at the $20.00 but also handles your certificates (weren't always free)
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[jgmac1106] My shared host uses bitNinja
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[jgmac1106] quick question hoping to finish a fork of the citation builder today, having trouble understanding where best to try and intterject, stuff like the h-card, p-publication and publication date.
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[jgmac1106] Here is the repo: https://github.com/jgmac1106/citationbuilder/blob/master/citationbuild.php the citations come out in plain text, I just need to determine where to add the html elements in the function strings
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jgmac1106 wll that is the file where I am going to try first and then I am going to try here: https://github.com/jgmac1106/citationbuilder/blob/master/includes/formats/apa6_format.php
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jgmac1106 getting the plain text citation to come out wit htlp that can be copy pasted with mf2 shoudl be doable. Got the h-cite working correctly
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[eddie] !tell jeremycherfas ohhh that makes sense, as far as real life usages.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [eddie]: jeremycherfas left you a message 3 hours, 49 minutes ago: My point was more about the meaning of the word in ordinary speech. Nickname has those two kinds of use, private and public. I may refer to you as "Old Grouchy" when talking about you to, say, my friend, but, because I am a hypocrite, I wouldn't call you Old Grouchy to your face. If you referred to me as "Jerry" in public I would politely tell you that I really don't like to be called that, and would
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sknebel petermolnar: kind of surprised your DNS provider is not you :D
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petermolnar yeah... that's the sole part I never got the patience to set up
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petermolnar I tried ~2 years ago, the minute I opened port 53 I became an echo attack participant...
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sknebel I only run one zone myself, for wildcard lets encrypt
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petermolnar that is actually quite smart
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sknebel I keep meaning to write that up
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sknebel before I totally forget what I did there
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sknebel I specifically choose the PowerDNS stack since there resolver and authorative (sp?) server are different things, so you can't accidentially make an open resolver while serving zones
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petermolnar I didn't know that; my brief fun was with bind
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jacky I was trying to avoid building a CMS tool for Koype
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jacky but I ran across this https://github.com/chrisdiana/cms.js
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Loqi [chrisdiana] cms.js: Client-Side JavaScript Site Generator
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[cleverdevil] Hmm, wouldn’t that be problematic from an indexing perspective? Also from an accessibility point of view?
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jacky indexing, perhaps
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jacky but from an a11y point, possibly not if it's reading the DOM at the point of request and not on request reading
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[tantek] I also do not like the term "petname" - it sounds like whoever is making/using them is treating their contacts like pets, which is both a ridiculous and frankly patronizing framing
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[tantek] petname--
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Loqi petname has -2 karma over the last year
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[tantek] petname <<Criticism: {{t}} I dislike the term “petname” because it sounds like whoever is making/using them is treating their contacts like pets, which is both a ridiculous and frankly patronizing framing.
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[tantek] !tell Zegnat,aaronpk feel free to add your own (or others) criticisms to /petname and/or create a Criticism section and feel free to move mine there too. Even if you just braindump your own personal discomfort with it, I think it's good to capture since no one here since to actually like the term.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel I seriously assumed "pet name" is a widely known and used english word, given that I learned it in high school, apparently not?
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[tantek] Definitely not
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[tantek] TBH it feels like one of those white male nerd insidery jargon terms that would never make it as a general term
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sknebel wonder if it's more common in UK usage?
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sknebel hm, none of the dictionaries note any regional aspect
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[eddie] I think it is widely known but not widely used in the US
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[tantek] no it is very nerdy see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petname
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Loqi Firefox Petname Tool
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[eddie] and in the US I think it provides some assumption of silliness or intimacy. Like a high school couple might have "pet names" for each other.
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[tantek] TIL: hypocorism (!!!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocorism
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[eddie] How interesting
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sknebel right, needs a space on wikipedia, then it redirects to the latter page
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sknebel is never sure about spaces/not spaces for things that are compound-word like...
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gRegorLove I've only heard "pet names" in terms of nicknames for romantic partners
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gRegorLove We could call them dolphin names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name#Dolphin_names_for_each_other
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[eddie] 😆
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Zegnat “A dolphin chooses its name as an infant.” that’s the oposite of what the term tries to describe sadly
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Loqi Zegnat: [tantek] left you a message 35 minutes ago: feel free to add your own (or others) criticisms to /petname and/or create a Criticism section and feel free to move mine there too. Even if you just braindump your own personal discomfort with it, I think it's good to capture since no one here since to actually like the term.
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[eddie] Added a criticism section with a summary from this channel so far. tantek had a missing space so Loqi didn't pick up on his criticism add on, but I added that in too. Feel free to add anything you all feel that I missed https://indieweb.org/petname#Criticism
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gRegorLove I think "nickname" and "private nickname" work fine currently, don't necessarily need a new term.
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[eddie] Yeah, I think so too
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[eddie] that's true, if you wanted something that could be synced to your phone's contacts list you could just use the term "private-nickname". However until someone starts actually doing something like that, nickname seems to cover everything we need in a nicknames cache
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Zegnat I do now wonder what names people are using for me in their address books, ha
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[tantek] is it more private or personal? that is, is the use of the nickname more something you keep to yourself and don't share with others? or is it more something that is just particular to you, your own personal context?
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[tantek] most of mine I think are much more just "personal nickname" than "private nickname"
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[tantek] names like "mom" and "dad" for example are not really "private" (they're generic terms), but they do only make sense in a *personal* context
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[tantek] gRegorLove - I agree, don't need a new term
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sknebel ugh, naming stuff is hard.
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sknebel is writing up AutoAuth and tries to find useful names for stuff