#dev 2018-11-22

2018-11-22 UTC
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GWG What's going on tonight?
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jacky going to write a post about what I got going so far in koype and some next steps
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GWG Great
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jacky then to make and set aside all of the prep work for food tomorrow
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GWG I'm not sure if I'll get to Indieweb tonight
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GWG I'm on furniture moving
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jacky we got a vHWC tonight?
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GWG jacky: Not that I'm aware of. I think next week. But I'll be out regretfully
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[tantek] jacky, any thoughts for a /2019-01-01-commitment?
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[tantek] fixes singular to redirect to plural
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jacky I'm working on a few at the moment
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[tantek] I mean listing them explicitly, or at least an easy one, here: https://indieweb.org/2019-01-01-commitments#Commitments
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Zegnat sknebel: I saw you added a TTL question to autoauth. I am wondering if this is up to autoauth to solve, or if we should look into introducing this as a separate spec? I feel like different people have at different times asked about expiring tokens and the possibilities for refresh tokens
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Zegnat So far we’ve always just said that you, as endpoint owner, can issue auto-expiring tokens. But we have never specified how clients may realise this is happening
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sknebel Zegnat: "may realize" - it appears to be not mentioned in the indieauth spec (I thought it was), but in OAuth there's a recommended property of "expires_in" in the token response, whereas my question is about *requesting* a certain TTL
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Zegnat What is the reason to request a specific TTL?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "reason to request a specific TTL" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "reason to request a specific TTL is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel making sure the client doesn't get a token that's valid for longer than their token with the auth endpoint?
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sknebel maybe that's not so important/a mechanism to re-validate that might be more important
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sknebel I'm not really liking the revocation story yet. client token gets revoked at users token endpoint. users token endpoint tells auth endpoint that's happened, auth endpoint goes and posts individual revocation requests to all the sites? relatively short-lived tokens then make a lot of sense, should the auth endpoint be able to ask for those?
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Zegnat Ah, right, yeah the revocation story doesn’t flow well.
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Zegnat It is easy enough for the client to go and revoke, but requesting revokation through the main token is a hassle
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[grantcodes] After building this directory, I'm wondering if there has been any thought into how to determine a preferred name for a person? Specifically in the context of mentioning them on your site?
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jgmac1106 grant search the chat for what [eddie] did with his nickname cache
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[grantcodes] Ok will do
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sknebel [grantcodes]: as in, how they'd like you to link them?
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jgmac1106 people are working you drop in their url and if you syndicate to X and Y the correct nickname will go to each
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sknebel that's not a "preferred" name, is it?
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[grantcodes] sknebel not the link but more if I should display their name, nickname or url
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[grantcodes] In my mind it would go nickname > name > url
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sknebel hm, that's tricky. and might also depend on the context
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swentel hmm, I'm constantly getting parameters don't match if I try to login, weird
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jgmac1106 i think it would be name > url> nickname on syndication or just <a h-card u-url href=“$>Name</a> ty
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sknebel i.e. on my blog I'd typically mention people here by nick or first name, if I were to write something to share for a wider audience I might go for full names
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sknebel displaying URLs is probably only last resort when talking about a person
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Zegnat [grantcodes], for the directory I would not prefer nickname from the h-card to actual name. The nickname property may specifically point at an alias or IM handle, and I do not think those are always going to be the most obvious (or even reflective of what people are called)
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Zegnat But for your own personal site, I would call people in writing the same as I would call them when talking about them or to them offline. Which will mostly be first names (or shortened first names in some cases)
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[grantcodes] swentel: Must be something to do with your auth endpoint returning a me parameter. To be honest I'm not sure I even need to make that check
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[grantcodes] Zegnat agreed for the directory, but I was thinking more in the case of writing a blog post and nickname
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[grantcodes] In some advanced future I am hoping to have a micropub client autofill mentions. I suppose it would might be possible to autofill the full name and the user can change it to whatever they want as long as the html with the link is preserved.
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat spending the morning going back to our citation hell...trying to find source code of this: https://library.unc.edu/citationbuilder/ to then add on what you and I already did
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Zegnat He, have fun [jgmac1106] ;)
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jgmac1106 If I they let me play with their tool be relatively easy
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[grantcodes] Also oops yes Zegnat the directory doesn't resolve urls, it uses exactly what you type in as your url as the key, which maybe isn't perfect. But you should be able to log in without your slash to delete that extra one again 😅
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Zegnat Aah, gotcha, will do!
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Zegnat petermolnar: just had another go with Safari on your theme switcher, this works really nice and basically exactly as expected
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Zegnat [grantcodes]: on second login I am getting State does not match. I guess this will have to wait until after work.
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[grantcodes] Ha oops 😄 mvp
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petermolnar Zegnat: thank you!
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Loqi petermolnar: [grantcodes] left you a message 1 day, 16 hours ago: - re react website it's basically as Eddie described, the server does the initial render based on the initial state of the components, so basically just generates html + css for a page, then if a user has js enabled everything is loaded client side where you can do the real time interaction stuff
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petermolnar I'm glad it does.
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[eddie] grantcodes: right now I use custom nicknames but I should probably move that to something that isn’t already used so I could store someone’s nickname AND what I want to call them
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[eddie] grantcodes: autofilling full name and allowing editing is similar to Facebook. It auto fills fullname and allows the removal of the last name through backspace.
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[eddie] So that’s good via prior art. But it would probably be helpful, to be able to modify any of the text as long as the html link stays intact like you said
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[eddie] You could also just provide options where the person could select the person’s first name, full name or nickname when they are autofillinf
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Zegnat What is petname?
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Loqi petname is a local, typically private, nickname for a user, similar to how the entries in a phone's telephone book have user-defined names, e.g https://indieweb.org/petname
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Zegnat “What [you] want to call them” ^^^
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Zegnat I feel like that page may need some citations for the usage of the word
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Zegnat petname << [https://octodon.social/@cwebber/99533620701589087 Discussion] based on [https://github.com/cwebber/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-spring2018/blob/petnames/topics-and-advance-readings/petnames.md a write-up (including example)] of petnames by [https://dustycloud.org/ cwebber]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://octodon.social/@cwebber/99533620701589087 Discussion] based on [https://github.com/cwebber/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-spring2018/blob/petnames/topics-and-advance-readings/petnames.md a write-up (including example)] of petnames by [https://dustycloud.org/ cwebber]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /petname https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54185&oldid=53399
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Loqi [Christopher Lemmer Webber] Petnames for Self Sovereign and Human Readable Identifiers: https://github.com/cwebber/rebooting-the-web-of-trust-spring2018/blob/petnames/topics-and-advance-readings/petnames.mdAdvanced reading / topic paper I'm submitting for Rebooting Web of Trust...
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Zegnat petname << [http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/petnames/IntroPetNames.html An Introduction to Petname Systems] by [http://www.skyhunter.com/marc.html Marc Stiegler] describes the envisioned different between petnames and nicknames, and some of its use-cases
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Loqi ok, I added "[http://www.skyhunter.com/marcs/petnames/IntroPetNames.html An Introduction to Petname Systems] by [http://www.skyhunter.com/marc.html Marc Stiegler] describes the envisioned different between petnames and nicknames, and some of its use-cases" to the "See Also" section of /petname https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54186&oldid=54185
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Zegnat I thought I read something about it published W3 also, but can only find the petname tool that allowed you to assign petnames to websites: https://www.w3.org/2005/Security/usability-ws/papers/02-hp-petname/
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat DID stuff usually comes out of the verified claims community group...or a lot of the people and vocab overlap
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[jgmac1106] actually working group: https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/charter.html
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Zegnat Sure, but I was looking at petnames stuff. Which can be mapped on DID but they themselves definitely are no such thing (not globally unique)
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[jgmac1106] ohh I see, thx
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aaronpk [grantcodes] I get "missing auth parameter" when I try to log in
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petermolnar https://github.com/yaronn/blessed-contrib -> "Map", for whoever wants a truly retro website, but with checkins
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Loqi [yaronn] blessed-contrib: Build terminal dashboards using ascii/ansi art and javascript
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petermolnar although I may have misunderstood it, it's not a web toolkit, it's a terminal toolkit
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sknebel need to add a JS terminal emulator, done :D
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petermolnar aaargh :D
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sknebel hm, I occasionally toyed with the idea of doing a site in the style of the old Turbo Pascal (and other stuff) TUIs
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petermolnar sknebel: https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/
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petermolnar for design + fonts
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sknebel petermolnar: yeah
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petermolnar the disturbing part of that site (the int10h) is that for me, it's really easy to navigate and read it, way easier, than most of the modern/material/flat/etc designs
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petermolnar the bad part of those fonts is the obvious lack of utf-8
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petermolnar which, in my case (thanks, ő and ű), is quite important
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[grantcodes] aaronpk probably because the auth endpoint isn't required to return the me parameter any more is it? I think I was reading outdated info somewhere
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aaronpk correct
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[grantcodes] Cool, probably works for you now
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sknebel curious to see how well the microformats parser holds up
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aaronpk woo works
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[grantcodes] The node / js one is pretty out of date
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sknebel yep
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sknebel aaronpk Zegnat do you remember why in the autoauth proposal there's a callback to deliver the token to the authorization endpoint, when in normal indieauth roughly the same steps happen during a request?
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aaronpk not totally sure but maybe it had to do with not wanting any party to be waiting for a second request to happen within another request?
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sknebel might be.
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sknebel guess that'S not the case in the normal flow
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sknebel should that have it's own "state" parameter or do we reuse the authorization_code?
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[kevinmarks] Pet names are fine. Publishing them is weird.
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[tantek] also, mostly handwaving is not helpful. if you've got screenshots to UIs that are using them then great, otherwise not sure how useful that page is TBH
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