petermolnarI have a weird idea: https://cloud.google.com/vision/ can give you a list of exact matches of the image you upload. Should I assume that all exact matches for my photos are syndications, even if it wasn't done by me?
sknebel[eddie]: I wonder if it makes sense to try some way for a microsub server to have the client add custom buttons to a post in the reader? which e.g. could help with "how do you authenticate the magic link for the read post" etc
[eddie]instead the webmention receiver would add the link, send it to Microsub (for example through Micropub) and when you clicked on the link it would take you not to a Microsub server but to your Webmention server
[eddie]I think most people's webmentions end up on their server near their Micropub post data (either in the same database or as a flat file in a folder near the post folder), which would be something interesting to research
[eddie]Okay, so with the per-feed config, you would configure custom buttons essentially telling the Microsub server, for posts in this feed add a button with this title and that when clicked opens to this url
sknebelmaybe. ideally with some way of attaching authentication. don't have a detailed idea what one might want yet (and it's probably a bit to early to do something like this, lets try the link thing first and find its problems)
[eddie]hmm interesting. Yeah, I think as you said, one we need to iron out some of the link/authentication problems first. Second, I think this wouldn't work for the podcast listen posts discussed in IndieWeb because most people will be listening to podcasts in a regular non-Microsub player
[jgmac1106]But the community would switch to a microsub player... Or in short term what if I have a podcast feed in my reader but I just use it to publish listens (all three categories) or h-review for example
sknebelaaronpk: "we could benefit from some documentation around how to handle people changing their URLs for IndieAuth apps" - http to https moves could be covered by following the redirect rules?
aaronpkYes and that should cover domain changes too, I just think it needs to be spelled out explicitly since it's often overlooked when people write apps. Even generic OAuth apps.
[tantek]I'm a little confused here - why would a user ever have to / want to worry about providing a specific "podcast feed" instead of just their normal "primary" feed?
[tantek]or to put it another way, shouldn't a Podcast listener (AKA "app" / reader) be able to subscribe to any feed and then just download / queue up the podcasts that happen to be in that feed?
[tantek]right [aaronpk], that's where I was going next: another way of thinking about it, instead of trying to build podcast downloading / listening functionality into every Microsub client, how about we Microsub client support into existing podcast "apps"?
[tantek][jgmac1106] re: "might subcribe to someone's blog feed but not care for their podcast feed" so do you follow people on Twitter and get not care about their posts with photos / video / audio?
cjwillcocktantek: re DNS short TTL - I withdraw the 600 has a special meaning of 'do-not-cache' comment. Testing showed this is not the case in the wild.
aaronpkif you follow someone's home page with a bunch of different kinds of posts, only the posts with audio would be output in the Aperture podcast feed for that channel
[jgmac1106]But I do think now I could put all the podcast feeds into an Aperture channel, then Indigenous would recognize existence of <audio> add a custom button that would publish a listen post with podcast url, name,
[tantek][jgmac1106] tl;dr: "I love spending extra time micromanaging special feed subsets for every person I want to follow on the web" said no one ever.
[tantek]Or they get annoyed at having to find/follow n different social media profiles for the same person and then get more annoyed with seeing so many dupes, but not all the time, so there's no easy way to just get everything once.
cjwillcockI did not, my approach was to live-test/monitor Google's public DNS at 8.8.8.8 while I changed records at various TTL settings. I observed that any setting of seconds was respected, including 0 seconds as 'do-not-cache'. Grain of wisdom: legacy systems don't handle 0 consistently.
[tantek]cjwillcock that's definitely worth noting as an observaction on /TTL perhaps in a new "DNS examples" section listing "* Google 8.8.8.8: ..." explicitly
[jgmac1106][tantek] I know you are pushing the follow person model rather than person's x feed. Just not sure how it works in terms of post types... I do not want everything from everyone...
[eddie]I definitely think feeds linked with rel=feed (I think that's the one for h-feeds) from the identity url (like eddiehinkle.com) is the right path. Then it's up to the Microsub server/clients to present that in a friendly way about "topics" rather than technical about "feeds"
[tantek][jgmac1106] your point about algorithmic feeds is a good one - note however that is an *automatic* way of throttling what you see from your followings, without having to manually pick and choose yourself
[tantek][jgmac1106] indieweb is about independence and choice. While yes algorithmic feeds do a horrible job at this, it doesn't mean everyone wants to sign up for doing manual feed micromanagement themselves
[schmarty]eddie: the person following you may have to spend time evaluating all of your feeds to understand the content in each one. also, you've carefully curated your feeds for content, but e.g. wordpress sites offer a feed per category, or by kind with post-kinds. that's a combinatorics explosion to sift through.
aaronpkLet's say I want to change my website to aaronpk.com, so I change the domain and redirect aaronparecki.com to aaronpk.com, when I log in next there's nothing that will let me log in as aaronparecki.com because my site is moved
[schmarty]also, i feel like you've put a lot of thought into how you want folks to consume your site based on the feeds you've established. more so than many! but i still might want some subset of the items you're putting into feeds, so it's not enough for a reader to let me select feeds that the author curates.
[jgmac1106]@schmarty yes and you still would have ability to add a feed for me of just photos in posts tagged S #IndieWeb.... But that would be up to you
[eddie]schmarty: makes sense to me. Aperture supports some of that in the backend right now, but I definitely think it would be useful to move some of that into the Microsub spec so that clients can update that info without someone having to go to the server
sknebelloss of a domain becomes also worse and worse the more information we access through it (especially now we are startingto talk private posts too), another interesting problem to consider
sknebelcjwillcock: [tantek]: with times that low browser caches etc also could come into play in practice. e.g. I don't know if Firefox special cases TTLs that are below it's default cache time (which I think is 60s)
[tantek]so when the redirect(s) terminate(s) then you can see that the final URL retrieved matches the rel=canonical, you've even more strongly confirmed that you've found the correct new URL for the user (where they migrated to)
jgmac1106[grantcodes] I meant to ask as I saw so many similar…used to bootstrap now is CSS grid classes in your directory if your started with the same Brutalism template I used for a quick copy/paste hack job\
[tantek]the only place they have to "do the work" is on the newURL which they presumably have more control over anyway (since they switched to using it)
cjwillcocksknebel: tantek: we can't rely on layers that consume DNS to go to the DNS on each request, as sknebel says. IIRC the pancakes we were making had something to do with mobile phone as web server.
cjwillcockIn this case the mobile is probably behind NAT and would need port mapping on the LAN router to serve content requests coming into the public IP. Even realtime DNS updates would not be sufficient for the use-case, as port-mapping updates would need to travel between networks with the mobile device, and this isn't possible unless you are also the network admin / privileged for all those
[eddie]It's interesting, the tweet.js file gives the old fashion RT <original tweet text> for the content, which is nice, but strangely it seems like they don't actually provide the url of the originally tweeted url
[jgmac1106]Yeah.... Nobody ever replies to my inquiries... Will try again today... Want to import them all. My archive only goes to 2014. I lost 2009-2013 bc I used TwapperKeeper
doubleloopI've replied to it (https://doubleloop.net/2018/12/03/4631/), but my reply is listed in the section that says "The mentions below linked to this post, but did not include this post's URL as an in-reply-to property."
Loqi[Neil Mather] We’re acquainted with the wormhole phenomenon, but this… Is a remarkable piece of bio-electronic engineering by which I see much of the EM spectrum ranging from heat and infrared through radio waves, et cetera, and forgive me if I’ve said and l...
aaronpkhmm this "mentions" page could use some cleanup... it's not particularly interesting to know that I happen to have @-mentioned chris a bunch of times https://boffosocko.com/mentions/
[jgmac1106]yeah so your facepile would say, 45 likes or something....the weird part is why did the like go to his generic homepage and not to the specific post
[jgmac1106]"somehow that caused a cascade effect and now a bunch of my own posts have mentions of themselves all "via boffosocko.com"" happens to me too
aaronpklooking at my telegraph logs... i just sent a ton of webmentions because i support sending salmentions and that just caused a dozen of my posts to get updated so i just sent out like a hundred webmentions
petermolnar I have a weird idea: https://cloud.google.com/vision/ can give you a list of exact matches of the image you upload. Should I assume that all exact matches for my photos are syndications, even if it wasn't done by me?
[jgmac1106] Petermolnar unless you get catfished
[eddie] so you might say this config 
cjwillcock tantek: re DNS short TTL - I withdraw the 600 has a special meaning of 'do-not-cache' comment. Testing showed this is not the case in the wild.
Loqi TTL is Time-To-Live, a measure in seconds of how long a DNS record (such as a name-to-address mapping) is valid https://indieweb.org/TTL
[schmarty] it's the user-centric reason to have algorithmic feeds. information overload, a need for filtering (or summarization).
[davidmead] jgmac1106 eddie I asked for mine back in 2012. You can view it on my site, https://davidjohnmead.com/archive/twitter/, but I don’t think I’ve ever got another copy even though I’ve asked for one
doubleloop Can anyone help me with what I'm doing wrong here: https://webmention.rocks/test/1
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: ^
aaronpk i think that was all triggered when I favorited chrisaldrich's reply https://aaronparecki.com/2018/12/03/10/