#dev 2018-12-05

2018-12-05 UTC
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aaronpk but my site lets anything be stored as an array it just only uses the first value for some properties
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jalcine !tell [eddie] re: h-card population and micropub, that's cool!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk off the top of my head, single values for: name, content, published, author, url
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KartikPrabhu author is funny
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KartikPrabhu multi-author collaborative posts are surely a thing
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aaronpk If you look at every social media site a post has only one author
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aaronpk multi author posts usually get attributed to the organization
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aaronpk this is not a theoretical problem of how to represent something, it's a question of how you want it to show up in a reader, and I can't think of a reader on any platform that shows posts with multiple authors
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KartikPrabhu certainly "social media" but certainly not blogs
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aaronpk Got any examples?
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KartikPrabhu My reader (feedly) does show multiple authors obtained via RSS/Atom
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aaronpk Any actual examples of a site that publishes that? Would like to see a screenshot
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers#symmetries-charges-general-relativity-null-boundaries ;)
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Loqi [Venkatesa Chandrasekaran] Symmetries and charges of general relativity at null boundaries
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KartikPrabhu with markup
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KartikPrabhu and Loqi only picked first author :P
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[kevinmarks] Professional blogs have multiple authors
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aaronpk Like I said this is not a question of representing data ideally
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jalcine lol
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[kevinmarks] Also, people do ha e multiple names.
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: can you show me a post that lists multiple authors? Obviously many blogs have multiple authors but usually the post is attributed to just one of them or the organization
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aaronpk I give up
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: would you like a reader screenshot?
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[kevinmarks] Podcasts are an obvious one
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aaronpk yes plz, something other than the site that publishes the data
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: read what I wrote
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aaronpk podcast episode authors are the podcast itself
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk oops by notification I meant webmention
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk [eddie]: uhoh that's not a good sign, does that mean I'm delayed sending webmentions?
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KartikPrabhu also [kevinmarks]'s unmung does multi-author too
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aaronpk This ship sailed on the internet long ago I don't know why you're trying to argue this
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KartikPrabhu https://indieweb.org/File:multi-author.png
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[kevinmarks] https://ouropinionsarecorrect.libsyn.com/rss has
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[kevinmarks] <itunes:author>Our Opinions Are Correct</itunes:author> and
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[kevinmarks] <itunes:owner>
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[kevinmarks] <itunes:name><![CDATA[Annalee Newitz]]></itunes:name>
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[kevinmarks] <itunes:email>annalee@gmail.com</itunes:email>
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[kevinmarks] </itunes:owner>
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[kevinmarks] Hm. That may be an iTunes artefact like the way they fuck up music too.
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[kevinmarks] https://www.fastcompany.com/3061357/the-web-decentralized-distributed-open
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: I'm not asking for publishing examples
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: see the uploaded screenshot https://indieweb.org/File:multi-author.png
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: what is the "hep-th updates on arXiv" from?
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kisik21 Micropub "mp-" properties should be in JSON "properties" mapping, right? just in case
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KartikPrabhu arxiv.org a preprint repo for physics academic papers. this is from their RSS/Atom feed
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aaronpk Is that like the name of the feed?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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aaronpk Okay that's the "organization" thing I was talking about, and listing the actual authors seem to be an enhancement on that. Worth capturing on a page if we already have one about multi authors
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Frss.nytimes.com%2Fservices%2Fxml%2Frss%2Fnyt%2FHomePage.xml
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KartikPrabhu nope. the post is not by the organisation. the post is by the two authors on a preprint server that sends out updates
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[kevinmarks] though they're using dc:creator wiht 2 names as text
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: again this is not about the concept of authorship this is about what you see when you find this post in an interface
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[kevinmarks] people putting 2 names into a univalued field is an example of procrustean data representation, not authorship by a temporary hybrid person
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KartikPrabhu yup I see: a post on "feed name" by "author1 and author2" not a post by "arxiv"
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aaronpk right which I why I said this was a good example
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KartikPrabhu the "hep-th on arXiv" is more like a "channel" or "category"
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aaronpk what do other RSS readers show for this feed?
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KartikPrabhu not sure. I can send you a link to the Atom
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[kevinmarks] definitely plural in Atom https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.1
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aaronpk omfg [kevinmarks]
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aaronpk not the point
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[kevinmarks] atomCommonAttributes,
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[kevinmarks] element atom:feed {
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[kevinmarks] (atomAuthor*
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[kevinmarks] tomEntry =
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[kevinmarks] atomCommonAttributes,
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[kevinmarks] element atom:entry {
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[kevinmarks] (atomAuthor*
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aaronpk This must be what it feels like to be mansplained to
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[kevinmarks] yes, lots of posting interfaces are shitty at multiple authors. Not sure why you are advocating that we keep them that way.
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[kevinmarks] maybe we should split on 'and'
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: if you'd like to test other readers here is my atom feed from arXiv https://arxiv.org/a/prabhu_k_1.atom
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KartikPrabhu Firefox ignores all authors btw but they are present in the source
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aaronpk Thanks, gotta run but i will look later
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KartikPrabhu :thumbsup:
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[kevinmarks] hm, unmung only shows the first too
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: here is a version with collapsed authors in unmung http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fa%2Fprabhu_k_1.atom2
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KartikPrabhu of course it shows all because they are in the same element
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[kevinmarks] I think feedparser is takig the last author tag for author_detail, but getting it rightin authors
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[kevinmarks] scroll down for raw: http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fa%2Fprabhu_k_1.atom&raw=on
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[kevinmarks] `'authors': [{'name': u'Venkatesa Chandrasekaran'}, {'name': u'Eanna E. Flanagan'}, {'name': u'Kartik Prabhu'}]`
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu maybe switch to using "authors" instead
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KartikPrabhu ?
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[kevinmarks] seems like a bug fro feedparser
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kisik21 [kevinmarks]: I've noticed you're using Python 2... is there a reason for it?
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[kevinmarks] because appengine standard doesn't support python 3
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kisik21 oh, right
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[kevinmarks] despite google employing almost the entire python dev team
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kisik21 On my testing instance my posts are represented as mf2 markup, and I think I went overboard with that... /<kind>/<id>.json gets you parsed mf2 JSON directly. I don't think that would be even used by anyone, but still nice to have
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kisik21 parsed mf2 JSON == the micropub request that created this post in JSON form
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kisik21 is this even a good feature to have?
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KartikPrabhu what is multi-author post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "multi-author post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "multi-author post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu what is author
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Loqi authorship is how to determine who the author(s) of a post are https://indieweb.org/author
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk yeah I think your site was delayed in sending the webmention. I haven’t seen this happen before so I think it’s potentially a temp fluke. But wanted to flag in case you hear about it happening a second time
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Should Indieweb.org have a feed?
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snarfed GWG: it does: https://indieweb.org/Special:RecentChanges (see the Atom link)
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snarfed [kevinmarks] kisik21: app engine standard does now support python 3!
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snarfed ...just not with the legacy APIs. sigh.
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GWG snarfed: I meant an h-feed
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snarfed plug it into granary :P
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GWG It was more that it has a bunch of h-events. Should they be a feed?
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snarfed if you have a consuming use case, maybe
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[jgmac1106] @gwg how does [pfefferle] make the indie events plugin that appears in the editor?
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GWG Granary, I believe
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aaronpk GWG: https://indieweb.org/events is a feed of h-events yes
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 58 minutes ago: yeah I think your site was delayed in sending the webmention. I haven’t seen this happen before so I think it’s potentially a temp fluke. But wanted to flag in case you hear about it happening a second time
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GWG aaronpk: This was indieweb.org . jackjamieson was trying to use my feed discovery code to get a feed out of it
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aaronpk ah
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GWG aaronpk: I learned that jf2feed is a registered type, but mf2+json and jf2+json are not
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aaronpk Registered where?
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kisik21 mime-types?
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GWG IANA.
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aaronpk I don't understand
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GWG https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/#media-type
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GWG There's nowhere I can find the other ones mentioned other than the rel-alternate page
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] the pfefferle events thing in the dashboard is a very old school rss widget trick that was removed from core ages ago. If you search around you'll find references and code and can put in almost any rss feed.
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[jgmac1106] Events are hard
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sknebel swentel: another thing, why the hidden p-name thing? posts should either have a visible title (articles) or be notes that do not have a title/have a title thats equivalent to the content
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swentel sknebel, in the article markup ?
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sknebel yes
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sknebel if you don't show "Test send!" on your website, why is it marked up so that the receiving site believes its a title and shows e.g. "Swentel replied to this in 'Test Send!': <text>"?
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swentel drupal related; by default I can't override the main <h1> title on the canonical page to add a p-name class there
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swentel so this is a workaround for default installations
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swentel in the future I'm planning to add template overrides
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swentel but this makes it so that people who only install modules and do not override stuff can still have the needed markup
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swentel I agree it might look a little clumsy
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sknebel ah, so it is a copy of what's visible elsewhere on thepage
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swentel sknebel, yes
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sknebel that makes sense then, thx
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sknebel guess the same is true for the publishing time?
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swentel indeed
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[jgmac1106] @swentel how do people style titles in themes? Only on the h1 element no classes?
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swentel there are default classes in core on the h1
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swentel and every theme can override that if they want
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swentel you can even programmatically intervene
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swentel so a lot of ways
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swentel it's sometimes too flexible :)
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[jgmac1106] .... See WordPress... Over flexible
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[eddie] jgmac1106 (from the Wordpress channel): my thought essentially is to send a follow post but only if the Micropub server sends that as an accepted post type in the post-type query
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[jgmac1106] Eddie what I have been doing for follow post is using an article with who I follow as title... Only way I can get markup in Known
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[jgmac1106] So wouldn't that work for WordPress? Or a note with markup?
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[eddie] Well it would work as in show the content, but it wouldn’t work with say Bridgy
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[jgmac1106] If micropub endpoint does not use post type discovery default to article with markup for follow post
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[eddie] Mmmm maybe? I feel like that will lead to unexpected behavior
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[jgmac1106] And Bridgy would be to syndicate elsewhere?
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[eddie] If I did not have something that supported follow posts I wouldn’t suddenly want my articles feed to be filled with follow posts
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[eddie] Bridgy Fed uses follow posts to follow someone in Mastodon/ActivityPub
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[jgmac1106] ... Ahhh yes good point.... Reason I separated my long form articles for other articles
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[jgmac1106] In Known I can't add HTML to notes I gave to use articles
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[eddie] Yeah and that works when you are doing it by hand because you know what you’re doing
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[eddie] Manual until it hurts 🙂
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[eddie] But yeah sending them automatically to people like that I think might end up unexpected
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[jgmac1106] Yeah had to make this foe myself https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/pages/templates
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[eddie] It’s a good solution to get things to work the way you want right now. Great job!
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[eddie] jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (82 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] Yeah after hacking on idno plugins just came to conclusion "this is a ton of work just to add " u-listen-of"
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[jgmac1106] Though others can use plugins so I will return
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[jgmac1106] If @gwg made an explicit follow postkind could a micropub client recognize that as it does with other post types?
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[jgmac1106] ... More worried I am going to finish my blog migration and say, "Maybe I could do this as an SSG or my own CMS using perch... I should migrate away from Known"
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] still might steal [chrisaldrich] idea of a faux podcast feed for easy listen posts
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[jgmac1106] But add 🔊 button if <audio> tag present in Indigineous would be cool feature cc/ @swentel
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kisik21 The good thing about microformats2 + micropub: easy migration of posts... I've noticed it only now that the only thing I'll need to do to migrate my posts is to just go through my feed and send a micropub request for each post
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kisik21 because my posts are already microformats2, and Micropub can parse mf2 JSON, it's really easy to migrate
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kisik21 someone should write a tool for automating that
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kisik21 maybe me
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sknebel kisik21: regarding "the mf2 json being accessible, good idea or not" - depends - as long as it's only public information it is not a problem, but e.g. if you have posts stored that aren't publicly visible, either because they're private or not published yet, or attributes you store but not show it could be an issue
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kisik21 sknebel: examples of attributes I don't wanna show?
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sknebel e.g. my site stores my location if I submit it, but doesn'T show it publicly
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kisik21 and aaronpk is posting the town in his location with each post, and the map on the backdrop... (the latter feels a little bit dangerous)
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kisik21 aaronpk: do your posts really contain your precise location, but only the city gets shown, or they contain only the city?
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sknebel his site receives a constant stream of GPS data, so it knows precisely where he is
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sknebel afaik the map in the background is the location with a limited number of digits in the coordinates to make it less precise
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kisik21 and most of it is obscured by posts
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sknebel sure, but fetching the background image alone if I wanted to know where he is would be easy enough :D
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kisik21 yeah
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sknebel now wonders how difficult "map image to location" reversal is to do automatically. probably not that difficult given a known map provider
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GWG Eddie, if there is a use case for me moving up post type support...
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kisik21 I feel like that's OpenStreetMap
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kisik21 the colors
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kisik21 they feel openstreetmap-y to me
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sknebel heh, that's technically a license violation then
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kisik21 do they require attribution?
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kisik21 well, that
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kisik21 that's either Google or OSM
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kisik21 but Google Maps have more vibrant colors
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[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] is white male, exposing location safer due to privledge
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Zegnat His travel maps are OpenStreetMap via Mapbox, and do contain attribution. (That of course doesn’t mean the background map uses the same.)
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Zegnat “exposing location safer due to privledge” - that’s for sure. That is a big part of why I am comfortable publishing certain details about myself
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kisik21 [jgmac1106]: still there are robbers who might wanna track him!
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GWG Why Are we talking about stalking aaronpk?
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Zegnat We are actually talking about properties that are part of your micropub/post JSON that you may want to keep private ;)
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Zegnat But that got lost somewhere in the scrollback, he
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kisik21 because we started talking about private attributes in mf2 JSON, determined that precise location might be one, and by a pure coincidence aaronpk publishes details about his location on his indieweb site
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kisik21 I hope his mention counter would not explode ><
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kisik21 s/would not/won't/
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GWG I wasn't serious, just pointing out the disconnect
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GWG I have a proposal for hiding my location in defined zones
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[eddie] GWG no rush on the post-type query. I was just getting a sense for it. Really for my feature to be useful to people they will need to both support the post-type query AND follow posts
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GWG eddie, both pending for me
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GWG Have some other things to do first
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GWG But the secret is that if you excite me, I do it faster
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[Vincent] “if you excite me, I do it faster” - That’s a quote right there lol
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GWG Eddie, would you support an extended proposal of mine?
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/1
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Loqi [aaronpk] #1 Query for supported vocabulary
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GWG I want the query to expand to what properties and queries are supported
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GWG Right now you have to hope something is supported. Why not ask what extended properties and not show the option if the endpoint doesn't support it?
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aaronpk It did explode
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GWG Explode?
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aaronpk My mention counter lol
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GWG Oh.. sorry, lost context
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GWG All examples are always...what does aaronpk do?
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petermolnar kisik21: what's the trouble with jinja2?
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kisik21 I need to port a lot of Hugo's html/template (go library) templates from my old site to jinja2
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kisik21 manually
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petermolnar right
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petermolnar jinja2 is different
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petermolnar while you can use it the same way, ideally, jinja2 should be used the same way you build inheritance
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snarfed i remember porting lots of templates from django to jinja2. only half different...almost worse than entirely different
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kisik21 thankfully its feature set is similar to html/template (actually, even bigger because it allows for arbitrary Python expressions in templates)
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petermolnar I ported PHP Twig to jinja, same problem - half different
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kisik21 this new site is actually my first serious Flask project
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kisik21 so I'm a total newbie in Jinja2, the only thing I have is Flask's manuals
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petermolnar https://github.com/petermolnar/nasg/tree/master/templates - check base.j2.html then Singular.j2.html
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petermolnar you'll understand the inheritance thing
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swentel aleksip, it worked! :)
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swentel at least, I think that's you who send me something heh
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aleksip oh it did! excellent!
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[eddie] GWG yeah I definitely think those are two important additions (properties like visibility and the query list). We should probably create a separate GitHub issue for those though, I think they will hide under “query for support vocabulary”
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[eddie] I’m planning on adding those into my server and then adding them into Indigenous
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swentel aleksip, there's only one weird thing, it should have create a comment on my blog post, but it didn't so I might have a bug haha
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swentel not in your webmention, on the receiving end something went wrong
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aleksip yeah, i was expecting to see the webmention on your page, so that is why i came here :)
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aleksip bug report: /admin/content/webmention gives me an error
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swentel hmm, interesting
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swentel oh aleksip, I see why, I did get the webmention, but not the content
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aleksip "PHP message: Uncaught PHP Exception Drupal\Core\Database\DatabaseExceptionWrapper: "Exception in Webmentions[webmentions]: SQLSTATE[42000]: Syntax error or access violation: 1064 You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'FROM webmention_entity webmention_entity LIMIT 30 OFFSET 0' at line 1: SELECT FROM {webmention_entity} webmention_en
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swentel hmm
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swentel that table doesn't exist anymore (I changed that recently)
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aleksip i had already done some experimentation with a beta version, and just upgraded to beta-1, maybe that might cause some issues?
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swentel hmm beta1 ? or rc1 ?
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aleksip sorry, rc1
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swentel so that table is now 'webmention_received' (I changed that in beta4, was quite breaking release that one :/)
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swentel I think
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swentel if you delete the view
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swentel and the reimport it (just do single import and copy paste the yml)
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swentel that it should work again
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swentel s/the/then
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swentel I also know why it didn't create the comment, you're missing one class on the content, but I'll let you check the view first :)
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swentel oooooh
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swentel snarfed, I got a follower
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swentel lol
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snarfed hey congrats! like, organically?
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snarfed everything work ok?
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swentel yep, got one through mastodon
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swentel came into my notification
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swentel A post didn't get through today though
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swentel but hard to debug
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swentel it's eaten by that stupid 202 from mastodon
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snarfed :(
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aleksip swentel: thanks the view works now!
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swentel snarfed, will try again, I had it with another post as well
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snarfed thanks! feel free to file issue(s), of course
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aleksip well if it is related to an upgrade from beta, maybe not super critical
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aleksip so what about that missing class? :)
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swentel snarfed, will do some experiments, my notes are fine, this is an article with summary etc
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swentel it worked before
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swentel so not sure why this is borking
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snarfed on all instances? or just some?
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swentel it sends it to mastodon.social only afaics
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swentel aleksip, ah yes
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swentel aleksip, can you go to /admin/config/services/indieweb/microformats
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[eddie] [manton] So the first way of including audio is in an h-feed. I mark up listen posts in an h-feed with an embedded h-cite on my site. I think that is fine because the h-cite is essentially saying this is not my content
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[eddie] However, with RSS and JSON Feeds there is no way to say "this is not my content"
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[eddie] and I think that is what [chrisaldrich] is doing in Micro.blog
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[eddie] that's tricky because there is no way to seperate the two
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aleksip swentel, have that open now
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swentel aleksip, then find the 'e-content on other textarea fields'. Because, if I'm right, your content is not stored in the 'body' field right ? You need to enter the machine name there of the field that holds that content (my guess is field_content)
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swentel snarfed, oh
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swentel not it's there
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swentel WEIRD
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swentel s/not/now
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swentel fediverse tsssss ;)
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swentel fedbridgy++
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Loqi fedbridgy has 1 karma over the last year
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[eddie] Because for example if h-feed was consumed by micro.blog and I were building a discover section, I would exclude anything that was within an h-cite
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aleksip swentel, you are correct :) that is set now.
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aleksip so should i try sending the webmention again now?
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swentel aleksip, ok I see the class now, I'm going to reprocess your webmention
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swentel and it will show up then
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snarfed huh so maybe mastodon just did some blocking async validation
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[manton] [eddie] I see. So, the issue is mostly that there's no good way to reference the MP3 file directly, since you're linking to a web page, not an audio file?
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aleksip ah, i see
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swentel aleksip, you could indeed send another one, but since I'm using the internal endpoint, I can tell it to reprocess it again
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swentel I just change the property field (will be an action soon in the view though heh)
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aleksip :)
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swentel snarfed, no idea, I don't see anything in the code for that matter, so oh well
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snarfed heh, np. sorry for the trouble
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swentel oh, no worries
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swentel this is not your fault
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swentel but mastodon being just annoying
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[manton] [eddie] Looking at [chrisaldrich]'s feed, looks like there is a "u-listen-of h-cite" in the content HTML.
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[eddie] ohhhh that makes sense. So he’s just putting his mf2 in the rss content
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[eddie] so you *COULD* parse mf2 from rss content and ignore any h-cites you see. I know that might be a lot of overhead but anyone in the IndieWeb doing listen posts should be using h-cites around their content like that
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[eddie] good job [chrisaldrich];)
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[manton] I'll consider making that change. It still feels a little wrong to me to include the audio tag, though. If I link to someone's photo, do I include an img tag? Not usually.
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[manton] A counter-example is maybe YouTube embeds, which are included inline often.
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aleksip swentel, i had left the standard body e-content checkbox on, so there were two e-content classes in the page (did the indieweb module create the div?). unchecked it now.
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[eddie] That’s true. Although if you “reposted” a social media post with an image, it would repost the image
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[eddie] It just makes sure to attribute the person correctly
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[eddie] so I think the biggest danger is the UX around ownership and making sure we show it is not produced by us
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[eddie] easier on our own website, trickier when we syndicate into something like Micro.blog
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swentel aleksip, oh, yeah, I see the field
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swentel is that a node field ?
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[eddie] I personally have no chosen to syndicate any listen posts into Micro.blog. I’ve occasionally done a watch post (which is really just the cover art of the tv show or movie and the name of the piece)
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swentel aleksip, your comment is there: https://realize.be/blog/send-me-webmention-drupal :)
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Loqi [swentel] Send me a webmention with Drupal!
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aleksip swentel :)
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swentel ok, let me reply now
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aleksip swente, yes it is a node entity reference revisions field
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swentel hmm interesting that the class is on there, that probably shouldn't happen
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swentel it's outside the h-entry class, so it's not /that/ problematic
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swentel but it's weird
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swentel ok, you should have a webmention if all went fine
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swentel it will be unpulished though, so it needs to be processed
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swentel s/so/and
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swentel which either happens with cron or drush
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swentel whether it creates a comment or not depends on the configuration though
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aleksip swentel, hmm, i ran cron but don't see it
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swentel aleksip, is there an entry ?
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swentel at admin/content/webmention ?
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aleksip swentel, yes that is where i looked but "No webmentions received yet."
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swentel oh
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swentel hmmm
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swentel hmm is there anything in the logs ?
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aleksip admin/reports/dblog just says that indieweb_webmention_cron() was started
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swentel hmm there should have been an entry already
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swentel thinks
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swentel aleksip, my guess, but not 100% sure, is that the header tag for webmention is non https
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swentel it says http://www.aleksip.net/webmention/receive, but you go to it rewrites to https
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swentel so I'm guessing sending trips on that
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aleksip ah
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aleksip is there an easy way to change the protocol
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swentel well, I'm not sure why it says http, proxy thing or so ?
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swentel I guess you toggled the 'Expose webmention link tag' checkbox
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aleksip yes :)
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swentel very interesting
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swentel hmm
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aleksip so maybe i'll just add it manually?
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swentel yeah, if you could try that
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sknebel rel=canonical etc also point to http://
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swentel url is the same, protocol should be https though
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sknebel does drupal have a global base_url setting or something?
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swentel yep
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sknebel that might need to be set to https then
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aleksip swentel, manually set in html.html.twig now
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swentel ok I see it
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swentel will send another one
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swentel processing ..
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swentel and should be there (fingers crossed)
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swentel ah yes, response is better now
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swentel got a 202 now
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aleksip received! :)
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swentel ok cool
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swentel now
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swentel before you process it
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swentel have you configured /admin/config/services/indieweb/comments ?
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aleksip not yet... and i think i configured processing on cron run, so it seems it is already processed...
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swentel aah hehe
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aleksip oops!
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swentel no problem
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swentel if you click on edit
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swentel do you see my content ?
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swentel let's first check that
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aleksip i do!
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swentel awesome
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swentel now, let's configure comments
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aleksip rsvp and html comment were empty
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swentel that's normal
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swentel text should be there
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swentel something like 'No problem, thanks for testing it out! :)'
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aleksip it was there yes!
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swentel ok, now, to get comments working (if you want that of course)
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swentel there's 2 steps for that
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aleksip so i just enable comments? does not seem to be other things i can change?
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swentel 1. you need to add a webmention reference field on comments. The module comes with a storage field for it (indieweb_webmention)
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swentel (although, that might depend on the version you started with maybe)
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swentel (good material for my second article hehe)
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aleksip done!
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swentel ok, step 2
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swentel got to /admin/config/services/indieweb/comments
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swentel s/got/go
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swentel and there enable it, select the right fields (they will probably be ok by default)
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swentel and whether you want the comment to be moderated or not
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swentel I always moderate
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swentel that's safer for now :)
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aleksip yes :) done!
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swentel edit the webmention
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swentel ok, step 3
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aleksip edit form open
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swentel change 'Type' to 'webmention' and at the bottom, toggle the publishing status so it's unpublished again
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swentel type will now say 'entry'
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swentel that needs to become 'webmention' again
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swentel and together with unpublished is the trigger to (re)process
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swentel oooh
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swentel wait and
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swentel in 'Target'
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swentel that needs to be the full canonical url
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swentel it will now say /trying-out-the-indieweb-module
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swentel but that needs to be https://www.aleksip.net/trying-out-the-indieweb-module
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swentel (will streamline that better in the future with a view bulk action)
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aleksip it was the full canonical already!
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swentel ah hmm
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swentel and which protocal ?
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swentel because this can matter
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aleksip https
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swentel interesting
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swentel you have a good setup for testing :-)
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swentel anyway
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swentel it should now create a comment normally
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aleksip ok so i ran cron and now it changed back to a published entry
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aleksip but no new comment?
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swentel and is there a comment in the queue ?
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aleksip no...
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swentel hmmm
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swentel I think I know why
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swentel can you edit again
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swentel and the canonical url you have
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swentel change the protocal to http://
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swentel (why do I keep mistyping that word)
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swentel so: protocol to http, type to 'webmention' and unpublish it again
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aleksip swentel, now the type and property changed to no_link_found
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swentel ugh
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swentel of course :(
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swentel one second
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swentel need to change it on my end
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swentel hmm it's on non http://
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swentel s/non//
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swentel oh man, this is tricky
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aleksip i'm afraid i'll have to leave now for about 30-45 min but will be back
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aleksip anyway, huge thanks for all the help and of course the module itself!!!
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swentel yeah, thanks for testing as well :)
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swentel your setup has an interesting challenge which I need to think about whether I can fix that or not ;)
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swentel internally, drupal thinks it's on http:// which is why the matching doesn't work right now for creating a comment
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aleksip ah, so how do i configure drupal to think it is on https? :)
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swentel good question
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swentel I swear there was a base_url in D7
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swentel but not anymore in D8 it seems
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swentel which you can set in settings.php
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sknebel this seems somewhat relevant https://alvinalexander.com/drupal/getting-drupal-8-metatags-module-show-canonical-https-url
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sknebel also https://www.drupal.org/project/metatag/issues/2842049 and https://medium.com/@lmakarov/drupal-8-and-reverse-proxies-the-base-url-drama-c5553cbc9a3e
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swentel it does indeed sound like a proxy thing
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[jgmac1106] [manton] [eddie] is this correct h-feed for a podcast: view-source:http://stuffedworld.dogzone.jgregorymcverry.com/
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[eddie] almost
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[eddie] http://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstuffedworld.dogzone.jgregorymcverry.com%2F&pretty=true
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[eddie] There is an h-entry at the top of the page that shouldnt be an h-entry
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[eddie] then the author and name would be on the feed
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[jgmac1106] and I agree I would link to the page of the photo and the page of the podcast or podcast episode rather than the media file...unless a repost...but that is different
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[eddie] the rest is looking good
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[jgmac1106] perfedt will make change after class, thx
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[eddie] oh and for the episodes the content “Meet my dolphin friend” is marked up as a summary but is not in the content
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[eddie] content would be show notes, description, etc. So what is marked up as p-summary should actually just be in the content
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[jgmac1106] Ahh I see thank you.....really only built the page to apply to Itunes and PocketCast but then realized could end up being a fun thing others want
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aleksip swentel, ok so i'm back and looks like i've lost the log as i'm using a web gateway... :/
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sknebel aleksip: chat log? we have them :) https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/
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swentel aleksip, so yeah, we need to figure out how we can tell your drupal install that everything is https, this is the reason why the comment creation currently fails
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swentel but it's tricky in D8 :/
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aleksip ouch
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aleksip but your site is on https too? :)
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aleksip you have http working too?
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aleksip hmm, this nice web interface keeps telling me it is connecting to the chat room...
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aleksip ...but seems to work anyway
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sknebel huh, I totally hadn't realized that WebSub *only* knows fat pings. thats of course a potential issue for private feeds etc
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swentel aleksip, well, remember the webmention url. the protocol was http:// so internally, somehow when building the request, drupal has no idea it's on https
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swentel if you look at property="og:url", you also see that the protocal is http
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swentel protocOl
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swentel my god, I don't know why I keep mistyping that one
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swentel there might be one ugly hack though
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swentel tricking symfony
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swentel by setting following line in settings.php
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swentel $server['HTTPS'] = 'on';
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swentel that shouldn't result in any problems, I think ...
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aleksip :) ok i'll try that!
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swentel if you turn it on, I quickly see it in the source for that canonical url if it works
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aleksip ok, i have now added that to my site's settings.php
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aleksip copypasted from here
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swentel hmm, could you clear the cache
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aleksip but the /webmention/receive url is now hardcoded in my html.html.twig...
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aleksip is that what you expected to change?
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aleksip should i remove that and check the box in the module settings again?
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aleksip or is it something else?
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aleksip have now cleared the cache
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aleksip have now cleared the cache
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aleksip have now cleared the cache
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aleksip have now cleared the cache
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aleksip oh yes the og:url...
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aleksip does not seem to have changed... :(
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aleksip i use the metatag module, maybe i could set it hardcoded with that?
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swentel well, that's not the problem there
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swentel so my 'hack' doesn't work
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swentel damn :)
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swentel maybe we can set trusted hosts / proxy
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aleksip how have you set up your own site?
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aleksip i'll remove the hack from settings then
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swentel well, there's no proxy or so for me
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aleksip ah yes
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swentel I think that's the thing here
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aleksip yes i use a tls termination proxy in nginx
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swentel I know settings.php has a lot of options for setting (reverse)proxy
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swentel but not sure exactly where to change, or if that's the possible fix
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sknebel the pages I posted above looked like you can correct it through setting the right headers in the proxy
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aleksip ok, thanks, i'll have a look soon, thanks again for all the help. i could also stop using the proxy for my site if nothing else helps!
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swentel feel free to ping me in case it's working
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swentel then we can do a reprocess of the mention
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kisik21 It feels kinda weird that the function to render my h-feeds has more Flask @app.route(<...>) decorators than actual code
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[kevinmarks] [eddie] there is a way to express that you're quoting another feed in Atom - the source stuff. You could import that into rss with a namespace
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snarfed also https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/137 might help. i gladly accept contributions and PRs!
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Loqi [snarfed] #137 RSS input
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kisik21 Today I learned that mf2py can find webmention endpoints for you: mf2py.parse(url=url)["rels"]["webmention"]
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kisik21 That is amazing
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KartikPrabhu rel-parsing is included in the mf2 parsing
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aaronpk do the mf2 libraries also find the endpoint advertised in an http header?
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KartikPrabhu no mf2py afaik
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Zegnat The parser spec only runs on the document contents, so they don’t look at transport headers
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Zegnat As far as I know, that is. PHP also doesn’t keep any headers around even if it was used for the fetch
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snarfed but libraries easily could (and arguably should). extracting endpoints from headers is just as well specified as parsing.
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Zegnat Only libraries that handle fetching could do that. Do all of them do that? (I specifically do not know about the node and go once)
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snarfed no, they could easily accept and inspect headers given to them by the client
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kisik21 Zegnat: mf2py handles fetching if you pass an URL.
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Zegnat snarfed, that is true, that feels outside of the mf2 parsing spec scope though. Parsing things that aren’t part of the document
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snarfed again, yes, outside the spec, but well worth doing by *libraries*
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aaronpk it's like how the spec for an electrical outlet says how big the prongs are and how far apart, and then a manufacturer building a component that is just the prongs and you have to connect your own electrical wire to it. nobody wants that, people want a complete electrical cord
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snarfed wow that's quite an analogy
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aaronpk haha
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[kevinmarks] it is how plugs work in the UK though
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snarfed or, "batteries included" :P
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[kevinmarks] https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/wiring-plugs.php
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aaronpk that's maybe a simpler one :)
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: i seriously doubt most people who use electrical devices do that
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[kevinmarks] you do get moulded power cables with plugs on, yes, but they still need fuses in, so have moving parts.
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Zegnat My problem with adding this to libraries without adding it to the spec is that not all libraries that offer to fetch the data would result in the same output. While when all of them just fetch and then parse the document body according to spec result in compatible output
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aaronpk Zegnat: i don't think it's terrible if a library in one language happens to implement multiple specs
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Zegnat So it would have to be some sort of opt-in toggle
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aaronpk this is still specced behavior, it's just not the microformats spec, it's the link rel parsing spec
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[kevinmarks] making mf2py inspect headers if it is fetching is a reasonable feature request, but I'm not sure putting the rels in that structure would be ideal
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Zegnat I agree aaronpk. But if it means library1::fetch($url) may report a different URL as the first value for a specific rel than library2::fetch($url) things might become hard to explain
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snarfed i don't think anyone proposed injecting header endpoints into rels
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Zegnat Ah, that was what I was thinking was being proposed!
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Zegnat My apologies then
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snarfed libraries' top obligation by far is to do the best, most useful things for their clients. there's little to no obligation to behave the exact same way as other libs in other languages. they should ideally follow specs, yes, but they can and should do other things too, when that's useful
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snarfed heh ok
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[kevinmarks] mf2py preserving (and potentially parsing) headers seems reasonable
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Zegnat Preserving and parsing: yes!
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Zegnat Inserting them in the rels object (which is otherwise specced by the mf2 parsing spec): only with very clear opt-in.
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Zegnat That’s basically my argument :)
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[eddie] Hmm yeah that confused me as well
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[kevinmarks] the rels part was originally for rel-based microformats like xfn, but it is very handy for endpoints too
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kisik21 please remind me where is the authorship algo tester on glitch? I forgot the url
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/authorship#Validate
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kisik21 thanks
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kisik21 Would most h-card implementations in the wild pick up a canonical h-card on my homepage if I markup authorship on a post like this? <a class="u-author h-card u-uid" href="https://fireburn.ru">Vika</a>
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kisik21 if u-uid property on h-card represents a canonical URL, it probably needs to be picked up by compliant consumers
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aaronpk u-uid doesn't do what you think it does there
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aaronpk that will turn your h-card into the uid of the thing it's inside
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kisik21 is this better? <span class="u-author h-card"><a class="u-uid u-url" href="https://fireburn.ru">Vika</a></span>
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aaronpk yeah, tho i'm not sure what the uid is trying to accomplish there anyway?
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kisik21 I want the implementations to grab a canonical h-card
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aaronpk does this describe what you're going for? https://indieweb.org/representative_h-card
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aaronpk it's subtly different than authorship
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kisik21 I think my second variant is authorship+representative h-card. If I understand correctly, consumers should go to the u-uid to get full data for an h-card... am I right?
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aaronpk that is described as one of the steps in /authorship
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aaronpk which is how to find the author of a post
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kisik21 but I am providing an h-card, which means that an implementation that doesn't process representative h-cards might or might not go to my homepage for an h-card (it depends on whether it will pick either author.value or author.properties.uid)
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kisik21 s/pick/pick up/
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kisik21 if it picks up one of these two, my avatar would be shown there. If it doesn't, my h-card would be the bare-bones one.
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kisik21 so the question boils down to: how frequent is representative h-card support on IndieWeb?
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aaronpk well i would say there are a fair number of people who are doing what you describe, having a minimal h-card on their posts but more info available on their home page
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kisik21 with exact same markup?
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kisik21 will p3k pick up an h-card like this when showing me in the comment section?
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aaronpk yep it uses XRay which has that logic built in
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aaronpk you can test by putting one of your post permalinks into https://xray.p3k.app
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kisik21 that exact markup is not used in production by me
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kisik21 but it will be soon
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kisik21 aaronpk: but the fact that XRay supports this probably means this is widespread. How many people use XRay?
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kisik21 probably almost every PHP project
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aaronpk the wordpress plugins do not, but IIRC the drupal one does?
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snarfed the vast majority of indieweb users are on wordpress or known, which generally don't use xray
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GWG Do you want me to investigate?
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GWG I am working on Parse This, the parser two out of three projects use on WordPress
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kisik21 does it use representative h-cards in authorship algorithm?
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GWG kisik21, it should
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kisik21 then we have roughly 66% support for WordPress
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GWG But whether I should improve the code is always a question
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GWG kisik21, the other implementation should also
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GWG I was talking about using the same code for both
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kisik21 I don't know! for me - it's good if it at least parses my u-author+h-card{u-uid} (like the one a dozen or two messages up)
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GWG What is the url I need to check?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "url I need to check" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "url I need to check is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG Hate when I trip Loqi
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kisik21 if you see an author property with an h-card which contains u-uid, retrieve my h-card from u-uid
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GWG If not, I will certainly fix it.
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kisik21 ok! thanks~
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GWG I was just fiddling with the code to optionally follow the author uid
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sknebel if multiple widely used projects do that, it should probaly be integrated into the authorship algorithm?
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] re: "not technically needed for webmentions" - I think you meant "not theoretically needed" - yes the spec has that option of doing / processing such "raw" webmentions but in practice, *technically* microformats *are* needed for user-meaningful webmention interactions
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[tantek] aaronpk had a good answer also about this too: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-12-05/1544015342644700
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Loqi [aaronpk] swentel: I made my WebMention intro post primarily about Microformats because that's how you get webmentions to look good, otherwise they aren't terribly interesting. I say stick with that. Helps focus on the user benefit.
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[tantek] manton, you are correct about the concerns / pushback about "listen" posts including attachments in RSS or audio elements in HTML.
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[tantek] a plain "listen" post should not do anything like that