#dev 2018-12-09
2018-12-09 UTC
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# 
GWG https://make.wordpress.org/core/2018/12/08/updating-the-minimum-php-version/ - This is big if they do it
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# 
kisik21 Should I do stateful or stateless token endpoint? And if it's stateless, how should I handle token revocation?
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# kisik21 yay, my new shiny IndieAuth login screen works!
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# 
Zegnat You could keep track only of tokens that were revoked - instead of all tokens issued - but that is just storage space saving at the start and nothing else. Another option is to only support wholesale token revokation and store only a timestamp, invalidating all tokens before the timestamp. Less state (your server doesn’t need to remember any tokens) but still some state and may have usability issues
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# Zegnat This looks very indie: https://github.com/rampatra/wedding-website :D
# 
[jgmac1106] Nothing indie about weddings... The end of indie
# jgmac1106 my friend Hannah made this: http://www.scrumyourwedding.com/about-the-authors/
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# cjwillcock jgmac1106: re: citation builder, I'm interested in continuing my independent work on this
# cjwillcock can you tell me more about your workflow in capturing citations where this would fit in?
# cjwillcock I saw from your work with Zegnat that it seemed to be a standalone website type of approach, maybe a PHP module
# cjwillcock I was thinking more of an in browser thing to snip/store/format what you are looking at as a a6a with microformats
# cjwillcock so, I stopped as I'm not sure about the problem I'm solving. I would love to read an article on your blog about this - or get a pointer to an existing article that covers the topic
# [jgmac1106] yes @zegnat here: https://github.com/Zegnat/php-greg-cites/issues/6
# [jgmac1106] but after the garbage in and garbage out problem realized it needs manual input fields
# [jgmac1106] I was working on one (while learning PHP) but [cjwillcock] let me know the coede I was using looked like a started project and really wasn't that good
# [jgmac1106] but that tool is used in hundreds of libraries, a good update could have legs
# cjwillcock and the citation maker you forked jgmac1106, is that the interface you feel would work best? a website you go to and fill in form fields?
# [jgmac1106] but what I need to do is find all the different APA citations where I mapped the correct the mf2...or just steal them from @kartik
# [jgmac1106] [cjwillcock] we tried the snip and store, the data you get is SOOO bad you have to manually edit 95% of all citations...so manualy input fields make sense
# cjwillcock did you document those challenges you encountered?
# [jgmac1106] PHP was only chosen because @zegnat was only person silly enough to try this journey...and I figured be a good place for me to start learning something beyond just marking up html/css
# cjwillcock i am language agnostic -- whatever tool fits the use case works for me :)
# [jgmac1106] I am partial to dirty language when trying to learn code
# cjwillcock MicroFormats does that for me
# [jgmac1106] really to me that is pure simplicty...to the poihtn I just wish I had a blank text editor where all the endpoints work....when I see how much work goes into making "u-reply-of" go from form field>storage>html...I get queasy and wonder why....
# [jgmac1106] literally spent forever trying to build a listen plugin for Known...just gave up and spent two minutes writing a template file...
# [jgmac1106] [sknebel] yes...and the metadata that bibtex scrapes is juts bad, flawed from beginning, no matter the format I use to retrieve necessary fields it is wrong
# [jgmac1106] manual entry only way to ensure accuracy....@cjwillcock this is a known and well documented problem in the information sciences world
# cjwillcock new thinger: manual entry !== typing
# cjwillcock select in browser with mouse, then click the form to copy/paste into that field
# cjwillcock that's what I'm going for
# [jgmac1106] ahhh.. very interesting
# cjwillcock 'cite happy'
# cjwillcock so, do you do lots of in-browser citing? is that helpful?
# cjwillcock it's a neat ui/ux idea, but maybe doesn't fit the workflow? this is the part that lands outside my experience
# [jgmac1106] never
# [jgmac1106] we are talking 95% PDFs
# [jgmac1106] https://jgregorymcverry.com/continuing-to-build-indieweb-citation-machine-h-cite-markup-for-apa/ here is single author book and single author chapter in a book with single editor...I have to work...I will pull all the formats...
# [jgmac1106] someone did just share a new interesting citation tool....highlighting though is an interesting design paradigm
# cjwillcock okay, very helpful --- it's a big death threat but maybe I can pull it out of the fire here. backup is going back to citation builder website in php or similar
# [jgmac1106] Could easily work on pdf using..yeah Endnote does well
# [jgmac1106] the other thing I wonder if there would be way to query the database who often make a correct citation available
# [jgmac1106] other option and maybe this makes sense is it just wrap each citation in h-cite and be done with it all
# [jgmac1106] long term I want a builder as part of this: https://indiewebcoursetemplate.glitch.me/ and https://syllabus.glitch.me/ if there were mf2 we could cosume and see which paper most often cited, author in network
# [jgmac1106] yeah...why i am leaning towards manual entry like the form I shared..100% correct more important than magic
# [jgmac1106] view-source:https://kartikprabhu.com/cvis the goal
# [jgmac1106] this just looks so wonderfully nice and consumable..could thinkl of a bunch of ways to play: https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkartikprabhu.com%2Fcv
# [jgmac1106] ...but manualy till it hurts happens after one citation....literally I gnaw my arm off
# [jgmac1106] okay get logic...will follow.....until...I get reminder again...just figured if I need a form to build the the html citations anyways why not stick in the mf2 while there, but your and @snkebel approach to make sure there is a consuming case first always makes sense
# [jgmac1106] I mean forget..and then try again ...and need reminder to be beaten over head....
# [jgmac1106] didn't think about export, spoke to team about native mf2 support...weren't hearing it..use a type of metadata librarians love...forget what it is called
# sknebel apparently there's even wordpress plugins: https://www.zotero.org/support/ko/plugins#website_integration
# [jgmac1106] will investigate converting after export....though Mendely and Zotero...do better I would say it is about a 60% edit rate rather than a 95%
# [jgmac1106] the first open class I taught was in 2007 it was on Vygotsky and used Zotero
# sknebel (probably actually rather: https://www.zotero.org/support/plugins :D, no clue why ddg sent me to "korean")
# [jgmac1106] first citation I try in zotero
# [jgmac1106] I hate apa...maybe I just need a new career path....
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# 
jeremycherfas For citations I would definitely be tempted to round trip from RIS into Bookends (OS X) and build my own export template. Fortunately, the academic journals to which I submit are perfectly happy without any microformats, and I almost never do full cites on my site.
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# jeremycherfas There used to be a really nice cite-site-as-service called researchblogging.org which gave you a nicely formatted thing that you could insert in a post and use for discovery too, but it died, alas.
# jeremycherfas Well, it isn't totally dead, but it isn't what it used to be.
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# [jgmac1106] I am also thinking as consuming as a teacher...be cool too be able to quickly scan across 100 hundred papers and see what authros used the most, which perspectives dominate....but I don;t ever want to make astudent write an APA citation in HTML let alone an APA citation in HTML with microformats
# [jgmac1106] In other news I am never using YouTube again, archive.org is the YouTube replacement
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# [jgmac1106] hit those keys hard, when is performance? soon correct?
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# cjwillcock zegnat: the browser extension can not receive events from the pdf viewer -- chrome tested only -- the plugin takes over from the usual DOM I guess. Spent quite some time trying. But, context-menu option to capture selection text still works however, and can send selection to content script. So this development is still ongoing.
# [jgmac1106] a sentence I hope I never have to write. Long live the dumbhouse
# [jgmac1106] hypothes.is has clearly learned how to turn a highlight into data on a pdf.
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# cjwillcock jgmac1106: thanks for the pointer to hypothes.is
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# [jgmac1106] [cjwillcock] you might even be able to use their api to pull the data, the content of the highlight easily, can transform it any which way you want....heck forget citations play with bridge between hypothes.is, microformats and WordPress and people will build you a shrine
# cjwillcock jgmac1106: have been reading the API docs :)
# cjwillcock do you have the hypothes.is browser extension on all the time? that may be the better place for citation functions if you have it open anyway
# [jgmac1106] If you put in the a bit of work and show promise John Udell will usually hop on tho help if he has capacity, and more often than not when he doesn't
# [jgmac1106] I mean the idea...super nice guy
# [jgmac1106] Most people have a plug-in
# [jgmac1106] it might already exist I should ask around
# cjwillcock their browser plugin replaces chrome's pdf viewer with the pdf.js version from mozilla, that's why they can grab the highlights from PDF etc.
# [jgmac1106] the citation stuff
# cjwillcock but with their extension running, it blocks other plugins from doing anything with the PDF (it locks me out)
# cjwillcock join in maybe? add this stuff to hypothes.is? thinking about it. But that's a lot of new
# [jgmac1106] There is an always on WP button. I had it on my Known site but just remioved it since noone ever used it
# cjwillcock we may have two different use-cases in mind here. There is the one where you include hypothes.is javascript on your own site. The other one is having it installed in the browser and available everywhere. Just to be clear, the latter is the one I am working with.
# [jgmac1106] ohh okay, its not default on but could be, I usually toggle it off
# [jgmac1106] there is no FF option then
# [jgmac1106] that uses the wrapper
# cjwillcock i think it just works in FF
# [jgmac1106] fine by me then
# [jgmac1106] write now I stick in a big I frame: https://jgregorymcverry.com/web-annotations/
# [jgmac1106] Judell shared an html/json/markdown export tool but it comes with a ton of their scripts embedded that make it hard to style and work with
# cjwillcock right. If each of those annotations included an icon at bottom right (arrow, share, flag _cite_) that would be cool
# cjwillcock to add the cite piece in there -- crowd source the formatting perhaps
# [jgmac1106] I will ask and see if there is previous work.
# cjwillcock great
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# [jgmac1106] great approach
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# 
Loqi The IndieWeb Challenge is to collectively ship something IndieWeb-related that benefits the community, people in addition to yourself, every day of December! https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb_Challenge
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