#dev 2018-12-09

2018-12-09 UTC
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GWG
Hi, [eddie]
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GWG
What are you up to dev plan wise?
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[eddie]
I’m currently trying to pull the swift IndieWeb code out of Indigenous and into a library (specifically the IndieAuth stuff) so I can get Indiepaper for iOS approved by Apple)
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GWG
[eddie]: How easy is it to release a new Indigenous version?
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[eddie]
Medium? What would you like to see released?
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GWG
[eddie]: I'm not an iOS user. Just curious
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[eddie]
Yeah, you’re one of them Android people 😉 I figured you’re hoping to roll out support for something, presumably with Wordpress compatibility? 🙂
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GWG
[eddie]: Well, the next query I was trying to talk swentel into was location. I already have the data, sharing it with the client is a few minutes of work.
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GWG
[eddie]: I was thinking about your snow indication though
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[eddie]
Ohhh interesting. I should add location info to indigenous posts
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[eddie]
Lol I added snow indication and now we haven’t gotten any more snow! Haha
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GWG
[eddie]: You saw my design for that, based on prior.
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GWG
[eddie]: I am thinking about getting snow, rain, etc on my site
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[eddie]
Very cool! That’d be awesome!
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GWG
Not sure if it will be like yours.
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[eddie]
Doesn’t need to be, just needs to be the way you want it 😁
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GWG
Not sure what my vision might be
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kisik21
Should I do stateful or stateless token endpoint? And if it's stateless, how should I handle token revocation?
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kisik21
yay, my new shiny IndieAuth login screen works!
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Loqi
😃
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Zegnat
kisik21, token revocation is always going to require some sort of state.
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Zegnat
You could keep track only of tokens that were revoked - instead of all tokens issued - but that is just storage space saving at the start and nothing else. Another option is to only support wholesale token revokation and store only a timestamp, invalidating all tokens before the timestamp. Less state (your server doesn’t need to remember any tokens) but still some state and may have usability issues
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Zegnat
If you have come up with other options, I’d love to hear them!
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Loqi
[rampatra] wedding-website: Our Wedding Website 👫
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[jgmac1106]
Nothing indie about weddings... The end of indie
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Zegnat
I meant more the fact that the wedding website is now open source and for anyone to use and remix
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jgmac1106
I know and i should avoid making wildly engendered jokes about loss of freedom when married…
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jgmac1106
and I still say if [aaronpk] made the h-card pixelated QR code photobooth we could fund IndieWeb development for decades….be huge hit at uber rich nerd weddings
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jgmac1106
…and I updated exactly zero lines of code onmy podcasr page…the easiest tasks the hardest to finish
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Zegnat
I have very little to say on the “institution of marriage”. I have attended a total of 1 wedding and I can think of very few friends my age that are in any stage towards getting married.
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jgmac1106
cjwillcock++
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Loqi
cjwillcock has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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cjwillcock
jgmac1106: re: citation builder, I'm interested in continuing my independent work on this
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jgmac1106
good channel redirection…when I I finish my finals I will pull all the relevant templates
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cjwillcock
can you tell me more about your workflow in capturing citations where this would fit in?
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cjwillcock
I saw from your work with Zegnat that it seemed to be a standalone website type of approach, maybe a PHP module
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cjwillcock
I was thinking more of an in browser thing to snip/store/format what you are looking at as a a6a with microformats
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cjwillcock
so, I stopped as I'm not sure about the problem I'm solving. I would love to read an article on your blog about this - or get a pointer to an existing article that covers the topic
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Zegnat
That one was build in PHP because that was the easiest for me to get a prototype available. What is actually meant to do was take BibTeX (copied from e.g. Google Scholar) and output it as HTML matching different citation styles.
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Loqi
[jgmac1106] #6 Would a citation selector-->blank mf2 approach be better
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[jgmac1106]
but after the garbage in and garbage out problem realized it needs manual input fields
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[jgmac1106]
I was working on one (while learning PHP) but [cjwillcock] let me know the coede I was using looked like a started project and really wasn't that good
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[jgmac1106]
but that tool is used in hundreds of libraries, a good update could have legs
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Zegnat
I know those links, that’s my own repo :P I was merely replying to cjwillcock saying he was thinking of using a different tech stack
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cjwillcock
and the citation maker you forked jgmac1106, is that the interface you feel would work best? a website you go to and fill in form fields?
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[jgmac1106]
but what I need to do is find all the different APA citations where I mapped the correct the mf2...or just steal them from @kartik
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[jgmac1106]
[cjwillcock] we tried the snip and store, the data you get is SOOO bad you have to manually edit 95% of all citations...so manualy input fields make sense
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cjwillcock
did you document those challenges you encountered?
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[jgmac1106]
PHP was only chosen because @zegnat was only person silly enough to try this journey...and I figured be a good place for me to start learning something beyond just marking up html/css
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cjwillcock
i am language agnostic -- whatever tool fits the use case works for me :)
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[jgmac1106]
I am partial to dirty language when trying to learn code
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cjwillcock
MicroFormats does that for me
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[jgmac1106]
really to me that is pure simplicty...to the poihtn I just wish I had a blank text editor where all the endpoints work....when I see how much work goes into making "u-reply-of" go from form field>storage>html...I get queasy and wonder why....
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sknebel
bibtex is odd and IMHO just way to optimized for display. Just looked at the suggested bibtex for one of my papers at ACM: it puts the authors in one long string instead of having them separately, for ... reasons?
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[jgmac1106]
literally spent forever trying to build a listen plugin for Known...just gave up and spent two minutes writing a template file...
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[jgmac1106]
[sknebel] yes...and the metadata that bibtex scrapes is juts bad, flawed from beginning, no matter the format I use to retrieve necessary fields it is wrong
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sknebel
not even talking about scraping scenaries
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Zegnat
sknebel, yeah, that is one of the things we ran into. Author fiels on BibTeX is a bit of a mess, and the standard itself doesn’t seem to make any final decisions on what they should be like either
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[jgmac1106]
manual entry only way to ensure accuracy....@cjwillcock this is a known and well documented problem in the information sciences world
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cjwillcock
new thinger: manual entry !== typing
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cjwillcock
select in browser with mouse, then click the form to copy/paste into that field
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cjwillcock
that's what I'm going for
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[jgmac1106]
ahhh.. very interesting
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cjwillcock
'cite happy'
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cjwillcock
so, do you do lots of in-browser citing? is that helpful?
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cjwillcock
it's a neat ui/ux idea, but maybe doesn't fit the workflow? this is the part that lands outside my experience
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[jgmac1106]
we are talking 95% PDFs
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[jgmac1106]
https://jgregorymcverry.com/continuing-to-build-indieweb-citation-machine-h-cite-markup-for-apa/ here is single author book and single author chapter in a book with single editor...I have to work...I will pull all the formats...
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[jgmac1106]
someone did just share a new interesting citation tool....highlighting though is an interesting design paradigm
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cjwillcock
okay, very helpful --- it's a big death threat but maybe I can pull it out of the fire here. backup is going back to citation builder website in php or similar
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sknebel
hm, for ACM the EndNote format has somewhat nicer data actually, interesting
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[jgmac1106]
Could easily work on pdf using..yeah Endnote does well
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[jgmac1106]
the other thing I wonder if there would be way to query the database who often make a correct citation available
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Zegnat
Do browser extensions have access to text selected in PDFs that they themselves render? Hmmm....
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[jgmac1106]
other option and maybe this makes sense is it just wrap each citation in h-cite and be done with it all
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sknebel
yeah, the question of "what exactly consumes this" is important
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Zegnat
h-cite is already not made to markup all the details academic citations hold. And the question is whether they should. Adding h-cite isn’t really the problem here. Automagically generating HTML from some citation format (e.g. BibTeX) is the challenge.
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[jgmac1106]
long term I want a builder as part of this: https://indiewebcoursetemplate.glitch.me/ and https://syllabus.glitch.me/ if there were mf2 we could cosume and see which paper most often cited, author in network
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Zegnat
Best to forget about microformats entirely in this, and solve the actual markup problem first, imo
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[jgmac1106]
yeah...why i am leaning towards manual entry like the form I shared..100% correct more important than magic
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Loqi
Kartik Prabhu
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[jgmac1106]
this just looks so wonderfully nice and consumable..could thinkl of a bunch of ways to play: https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkartikprabhu.com%2Fcv
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[jgmac1106]
...but manualy till it hurts happens after one citation....literally I gnaw my arm off
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Zegnat
Sure. But that is 1 person publishing and 0 people consuming, probably? See if people even want to use an HTML list and use <cite> elements first, that feels like the first hurdle. Adding microformats once people are used to writing HTML citations seems easier.
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[jgmac1106]
okay get logic...will follow.....until...I get reminder again...just figured if I need a form to build the the html citations anyways why not stick in the mf2 while there, but your and @snkebel approach to make sure there is a consuming case first always makes sense
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[jgmac1106]
I mean forget..and then try again ...and need reminder to be beaten over head....
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sknebel
if you're using Zotero or something like that, also worth checking if there's a useful export plugin/format from that
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[jgmac1106]
didn't think about export, spoke to team about native mf2 support...weren't hearing it..use a type of metadata librarians love...forget what it is called
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[jgmac1106]
will investigate converting after export....though Mendely and Zotero...do better I would say it is about a 60% edit rate rather than a 95%
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[jgmac1106]
the first open class I taught was in 2007 it was on Vygotsky and used Zotero
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sknebel
(probably actually rather: https://www.zotero.org/support/plugins :D, no clue why ddg sent me to "korean")
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[jgmac1106]
first citation I try in zotero
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[jgmac1106]
I hate apa...maybe I just need a new career path....
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Zegnat
Just cite however you want to cite. Especially for stuff you are publishing ypurself
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Zegnat
No reason to stick to a specific styleguide ;) own itch scratching and all that.
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jeremycherfas
For citations I would definitely be tempted to round trip from RIS into Bookends (OS X) and build my own export template. Fortunately, the academic journals to which I submit are perfectly happy without any microformats, and I almost never do full cites on my site.
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Zegnat
jeremycherfas, yeah, I’d be interested to see more “full cites” or even just partial cites, on actual blog post and the likes. Before going to theorise over how h-cite needs to be applied.
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jeremycherfas
There used to be a really nice cite-site-as-service called researchblogging.org which gave you a nicely formatted thing that you could insert in a post and use for discovery too, but it died, alas.
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jeremycherfas
Well, it isn't totally dead, but it isn't what it used to be.
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[jgmac1106]
I am also thinking as consuming as a teacher...be cool too be able to quickly scan across 100 hundred papers and see what authros used the most, which perspectives dominate....but I don;t ever want to make astudent write an APA citation in HTML let alone an APA citation in HTML with microformats
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[jgmac1106]
In other news I am never using YouTube again, archive.org is the YouTube replacement
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swentel
GWG, new release of indigenous pushed
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swentel
original image is possible now
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GWG
swentel++
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Loqi
swentel has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (34 in all channels)
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swentel
and debugging of microsub responses is in too
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swentel
well debugging, basically viewing the json
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swentel
but it helped me a lot already
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swentel
but now a bit into holiday modus until 2019 :)
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swentel
(unless ridiculous bugs pop up)
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swentel
been an interesting 9 months so far
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[jgmac1106]
hit those keys hard, when is performance? soon correct?
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GWG
swentel: I have a problem now
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GWG
It won't let me upload anything
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swentel
scaling turned off?
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GWG
Both
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GWG
When I tell it to upload and set a file, it gives me a blank white box and says Please Select an Image
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GWG
Found the bug.
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GWG
If you set Image Upload Size too high, it does that
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GWG
Even if you disable the scaling.
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GWG
I tried that when I was fiddling with it before you added the setting
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swentel
what did you set it too ?
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GWG
8000
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swentel
ah yes
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swentel
it even crashes here then
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swentel
good catch :)
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GWG
I originally thought of that as a possible way to eliminate the scaling
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swentel
hmm it will probably even make the image better
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swentel
I haven't even tested that
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swentel
I set my default scaling to 1200
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GWG
swentel: Expect some things ready for you by the time your modus is over
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swentel
that's perfect
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GWG
swentel: I'm in the middle of bug fixes for Location and I'll be adding in the location query for you to test in the coming year
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cjwillcock
zegnat: the browser extension can not receive events from the pdf viewer -- chrome tested only -- the plugin takes over from the usual DOM I guess. Spent quite some time trying. But, context-menu option to capture selection text still works however, and can send selection to content script. So this development is still ongoing.
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GWG
RIght now though, updating the firmware on my lightbulbs.
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[jgmac1106]
a sentence I hope I never have to write. Long live the dumbhouse
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[jgmac1106]
hypothes.is has clearly learned how to turn a highlight into data on a pdf.
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GWG
[jgmac1106]: Someday I'll have to write up a tour
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cjwillcock
jgmac1106: thanks for the pointer to hypothes.is
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[jgmac1106]
[cjwillcock] you might even be able to use their api to pull the data, the content of the highlight easily, can transform it any which way you want....heck forget citations play with bridge between hypothes.is, microformats and WordPress and people will build you a shrine
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cjwillcock
jgmac1106: have been reading the API docs :)
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cjwillcock
do you have the hypothes.is browser extension on all the time? that may be the better place for citation functions if you have it open anyway
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[jgmac1106]
If you put in the a bit of work and show promise John Udell will usually hop on tho help if he has capacity, and more often than not when he doesn't
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[jgmac1106]
I mean the idea...super nice guy
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[jgmac1106]
Most people have a plug-in
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[jgmac1106]
it might already exist I should ask around
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cjwillcock
their browser plugin replaces chrome's pdf viewer with the pdf.js version from mozilla, that's why they can grab the highlights from PDF etc.
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[jgmac1106]
the citation stuff
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cjwillcock
but with their extension running, it blocks other plugins from doing anything with the PDF (it locks me out)
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cjwillcock
join in maybe? add this stuff to hypothes.is? thinking about it. But that's a lot of new
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[jgmac1106]
There is an always on WP button. I had it on my Known site but just remioved it since noone ever used it
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cjwillcock
we may have two different use-cases in mind here. There is the one where you include hypothes.is javascript on your own site. The other one is having it installed in the browser and available everywhere. Just to be clear, the latter is the one I am working with.
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[jgmac1106]
ohh okay, its not default on but could be, I usually toggle it off
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[jgmac1106]
there is no FF option then
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[jgmac1106]
that uses the wrapper
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cjwillcock
i think it just works in FF
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[jgmac1106]
fine by me then
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[jgmac1106]
Judell shared an html/json/markdown export tool but it comes with a ton of their scripts embedded that make it hard to style and work with
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cjwillcock
right. If each of those annotations included an icon at bottom right (arrow, share, flag _cite_) that would be cool
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cjwillcock
to add the cite piece in there -- crowd source the formatting perhaps
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[jgmac1106]
I will ask and see if there is previous work.
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cjwillcock
great
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swentel
[eddie], how do you handle marking items as read in iOS ?
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[eddie]
swentel: if you interact with it (tap on it, open it, reply to it, etc)
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swentel
and when just open a timeline, then nothing ?
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[eddie]
Also you can turn on a per channel setting to mark as read when a post leaves the screen
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[eddie]
There is also a “mark all as read” button
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[jgmac1106]
great approach
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swentel
I'm currently sending with last_read_entry
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swentel
as soon as you hit a timeline
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swentel
need to optimize that better
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swentel
(and fix the drupal microsub endpoint too, it's too greedy marking items as read)
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[eddie]
Ohhhh yeah I have to be able to see a timeline and have things not be read
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[eddie]
Monocle just does the “automark when interacted or when it scrolls off the screen”
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[eddie]
That works for me in almost all cases
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[eddie]
Except there is a channel or two that I essentially never want marked as read unless I interact with it
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swentel
yeah, I'm thinking something like that too
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swentel
although I don't want to send to many requests in a way
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swentel
but having a setting is a good idea, time to start adding configuration there
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swentel
oh well, that's all for 2019 anyway, taking a break now ;)
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[eddie]
Lol that’s a good idea 😁
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[eddie]
swentel: you should write a note or blog post about the Indigenous for Android release and use it for today’s challenge
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[eddie]
What is IndieWeb Challenge?
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Loqi
The IndieWeb Challenge is to collectively ship something IndieWeb-related that benefits the community, people in addition to yourself, every day of December! https://indieweb.org/IndieWeb_Challenge
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GWG
Playing with the National Weather Service API on my phone
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