#dev 2018-12-16

2018-12-16 UTC
iasai, eli_oat and [eddie] joined the channel
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[eddie]
Hmm known doesn’t seem to be following the Authorship algorithm
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[jgmac1106]
I was just about to say that
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[eddie]
I checked xray and it found it
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[jgmac1106]
Why are you blogging on Luke'sa ccount?
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[eddie]
Lol typo
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[eddie]
Luke was supposed to be like
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[eddie]
My phone autocorrected because I type Luke a lot
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[jgmac1106]
I thought the "my Luke" was sweet
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[eddie]
Lol! 😁
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[eddie]
My post has u-author with the url pointing to my homepage, and my h-Card on the homepage
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[jgmac1106]
it should grab your h-card..does everyone else's
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[eddie]
So it seems like Known doesn’t parse an h-Card from an external url
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[jgmac1106]
.aahhh I think those rules newer than Known
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[eddie]
I don’t think that rule is that new is it? Follow the url of u-author and grab the h-Card?
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[jgmac1106]
I wouldn't know
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[eddie]
Maybe but that seems pretty simple 🤔 well I guess to GitHub I go
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[jgmac1106]
...not sure WordPress would do that, be worth testing
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[jgmac1106]
send something to any post on https"//jgregorymcverry.com
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[jgmac1106]
super ecited that I am getting closer on the webmention badge...maybe it doesn't matter that the u-photo on a comment doesn't display the way I linked the img url back to the baddge file...with the webmention as proof below...and this is done from the wiki..
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[jgmac1106]
well....manually sending the webmention
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[eddie]
That is awesome how close you are getting!
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Loqi
[Greg McVerry] test
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[eddie]
:crossed_fingers:hopefully my author is found
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[eddie]
I think that badge image should show on other sites
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[eddie]
Maybe that’s a known issue maybe they don’t accept photo replies?
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[jgmac1106]
@zegnat noted best practice suggests not putting an image in a reply post... Wonder if plugin written with hard rule
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[jgmac1106]
Will miss that about WordPress. "I want to do X on my website" Ohh there are 37 plugins that do that
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[jgmac1106]
... Granted it is an ebb and flow... A binge and purge plugin diet
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GWG
That is best practice?
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GWG
Good to know
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GWG
We need a best practice list somewhere
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[jgmac1106]
I may have misunderstood... Not the sharpest crayon...
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[jgmac1106]
Not in the reply post @gwg in content of the reply
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[jgmac1106]
@gwg and [pfefferle] are on point [eddie] that worked
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[jgmac1106]
file an issue on the Known repo
iasai joined the channel
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[jgmac1106]
[eddie] one issue I need to think about is third party endorsements. What if indieweb.org wanted to endorse a badge issued by eddidehinkle.com there is no xfn for a relationship... Could an endorsement by a syndicated note?
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[jgmac1106]
I need it to be so there is two way verification between endorser and issuer
eli_oat, [tantek], iasai and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie]
Hmmm, so eddiehinkle.com posts a badge
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[eddie]
To jgregorymcverry.com
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[eddie]
And we want indieweb to endorse the badge I have created
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[eddie]
If I don’t necessarily have access to indieweb.org, it wouldn’t be syndication
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[tantek]
awards a badge right? (rather than posts a badge)
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[eddie]
Correct
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[eddie]
Maybe something like a repost?
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[tantek]
I'm still confused by the "endorse a badge" verbage/action
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[tantek]
is that like +1ing a badge?
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[tantek]
or disputing it?
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[eddie]
They are essentially providing their authority to say the badge is legitimate
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[eddie]
It’s tough neither liking nor reposting is correct but I feel like it should be something like that
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[eddie]
tantek, what do you think?
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[tantek]
I dislike it TBH
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[tantek]
the fact that there's a permalink is sufficient to "prove" that A awarded a badge to B
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[tantek]
whether you treat A with any authority is a different question
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[tantek]
and frankly not resolved by any kind of "endorsement"
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[tantek]
because you can just get a bunch of buddies to endorse
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[tantek]
or worse, a bunch of trolls to disendorse
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[tantek]
so I think the "endorse" action is not very well thought through nor actually solving a real problem / use-case
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[tantek]
if you have another party with more authority, it ought to actually award the badge, rather than "endorse" someone else's
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[tantek]
and if the other party does not have more authority, what's the point of having them "endorse"?
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[eddie]
Fair question. Looking forward to hearing more about it jgmac1106 😁
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[jgmac1106]
Yeah makes sense. And there is p-org in an h-card in for my university
iasai, eduardm and mblaney joined the channel
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mblaney
I think that endorsement pattern could be simplified: eddiehinkle.com issues a badge for jgregorymcverry.com, then all that's required for endorsement by indieweb.org is that eddiehinkle.com is listed as an issuer on indieweb.org, ie chain of trust.
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mblaney
I was thinking something like that might work for indiepay.me, so when you log in and try to collect a badge you need to pick someone to issue it for you. So then I was trying to work out where to get the issuers list from...
snarfed, iasai, jjuran, eduardm and [relapse] joined the channel
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[relapse]
I feel like here is where I mention that some badge providers are moving to Blockchain for authoritative proof of issuer, but I left by asbestos suit at the office.
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Zegnat
Re photo property within content property, best to ask aaronpk. He may even have something written up on why it was making photo posts harder to parse and handle in readerd
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Zegnat
s/readerd/readers/
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[kevinmarks]
I do like the idea of HTML templates, but I end up writing templates with conditionals and iterators and includes a lot in practice.
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[kevinmarks]
I like that jinja2 and nunjucks are almost compatible (though the embedded conditionals are python and js respectively)
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Zegnat
I like PHP and dislike that people forget it does templating just give :D
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Zegnat
s/give/fine/
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Zegnat
needs to switch from phone to laptop
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[kevinmarks]
I end up writing html in PHP using echo() inside loops.
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[kevinmarks]
can abuse templates in any language
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Zegnat
I end up writing <? foreach(): ?> inside my html.
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Zegnat
Short opening tags and colon syntax are a thing in PHP, because it is a templating system just like twig etc.
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Zegnat
People just tend to forget it and drag in extra templating engines instead.
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[kevinmarks]
But you need to put the $variables inside the <? to get them evaluated,
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Zegnat
Yes. Same as with most templating systems I know in html.
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Zegnat
<?=$title?> vs e.g. twig's {{title}}. Plain PHP is only 2 characters more
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sknebel
Zegnat: devils advocate: you are ignoring escaping here
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Zegnat
sknebel, true, templating engines that escape by default will win that fight
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Zegnat
<?=$title?> is actually {{title|raw}}, I guess
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sknebel
If I remember right twig doesn't escape by default, but you can turn it on with one statement for the entire doc
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Zegnat
For people looking at “plain” PHP foor templating, http://platesphp.com/ might be interesting :)
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[jgmac1106]
[relapse] @mblaney the ledger and trusted issuer is interesting. Yeah Colin been following badges from the get go....think webmention badges takes the overly complicated 2.0 spec and gets it to two permalinks
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[jgmac1106]
@zegnat would that be a good PHP 101 lesson..
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Zegnat
[jgmac1106], that depends completely on what sort of PHP you are trying to teach, haha
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Zegnat
But showing people that you can start with an HTML file and then inline some PHP as if it were template tags can be valuable to some
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[jgmac1106]
I mean for me.. I can build the way I want HTML to look (template) can build the HTML forms to collect the data.... I need to learn the PHP steps in between
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[jgmac1106]
... Be some tine before I can dedicate time but I should spend time learning some language beyond javascript... That I usually use with forms
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[jgmac1106]
... Or ai build forms and templates and say here @zegnat finish this.... Cool with that approach too... Way more efficient
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Zegnat
Ah. I am not sure PHP short tags mixed in with HTML will help you with that usecase at all
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[jgmac1106]
Thx... Debating a crash course in something over break... If I finish my book... PHP, node.js, or Ruby... with express goal of build form, take data, render HTML page
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[jgmac1106]
Not even sure I need the storage if an HTML page gets created
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[jgmac1106]
And get @zegnat to do it works in every use case I have discovered to date
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Zegnat
Well, these days Zegnat does have an actual job :P
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[jgmac1106]
Yeah... Really been screwing with my productivity
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[jgmac1106]
[tantek] @mblaney going to add your thoughts to #brainstorming session
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[relapse]
[jgmac1106] Reducing the trust/ ledger spec two permalinks makes it much more sensible.
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Zegnat
If the issuer is good for its word, you wouldn’t need a second party at all, imho. I agree with tantek there. The use I can see for having some type of ledger is incase the original issuer permalink goes down and you still want the badge to be verifiable. Then you would want to check a secondary trusted party
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GWG
Morning
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Loqi
morning!
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Zegnat
Good morning GWG! :D
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GWG
Zegnat, up to anything interesting?