#dev 2018-12-15

2018-12-15 UTC
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GWG Okay. I've gone SI in storing location data for my site. Yay
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[eddie] SI?
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GWG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units
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GWG Instead of having two options, I store in one and convert
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GWG I got complaints when I only stored in Fahrenheit
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kisik21 GWG: you store temperature in kelvins?
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GWG I went to celsius.
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GWG To do SI currently, I should do Kelvin
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GWG I switched to celsius, meters, and kilograms
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GWG Give me a minute. I'll see about Kelvin
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GWG Interesting
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GWG Dark Sky does SI but returns Celsius
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GWG Close enough
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GWG I'll make everyone but Americans happy.
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[tantek] eddie, why do you feel you need a PHP framework (rather than "just" using PHP)?
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[eddie] tantek: Frameworks help to balance a lot of complexity when balancing available time and effort. Reducer boilerplate as much as possible
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[eddie] GWG So what's the in progress project 😁
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GWG [eddie]: Our favorite topic to talk about. Weather
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[eddie] hahaha!
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[eddie] Gotta love the weather
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Loqi [eddie]: lol
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[eddie] more APIs closing on you?
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GWG [eddie]: Well, Weather Underground is gone
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GWG But, I arranged a json feed for my weather station without an external service.
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[eddie] oh that's very cool! So your website gets the weather from your actual weather station?
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GWG [eddie]: Well, I wouldn't mind some advice about that.
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GWG If you could help
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GWG See, there is an option to use station data, but only in the widget I created. The posts use the post location to find the weather.
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GWG Not sure how I would do it otherwise.
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GWG It's been getting it via an API where I uploaded it. It will soon get it directly.
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[tantek] Eddie, perhaps I’m too junior of a PHP developer to “get it” in terms of the value of PHP frameworks :)
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[tantek] Though libraries I’m a fan of
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[eddie] GWG hmmm, posts should definitely use post location to get the weather but it seems like the “get weather function” should be able to use any data source
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[eddie] I would think for a personal weather station maybe you can set a location within settings?
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[eddie] So if the posts location is within x meters it uses the station data
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GWG [eddie]: I have an idea for a zone feature.
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[eddie] tantek: that makes sense. Since I have limited time, I trust that frameworks can do a better job of setting up things like routing and templating better than I could.
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[eddie] It’s all trade-offs. I don’t think frameworks are the only way to go, but for my position I think they are definitely useful right now
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GWG [eddie]: The zone idea was for privacy originally.
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[eddie] GWG: yeah I definitely think some kind of zones would be helpful for setting up personal weather stations.
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[eddie] I think that is super helpful as well
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[eddie] Double duty!
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GWG Well, right now, I'm just smoothing edges. Not sure if I'll write zones today.
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[eddie] 👍
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GWG I got rain and snow data being stored as part of my weather package.
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[eddie] That’s awesome
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[eddie] We don’t have lightning storms enough around here, because I would love to add a special lightning feature to my website if in the middle of a lightning storm
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[eddie] And I realize that is like first world problems to extreme 😖
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GWG I didn't install a lightning detector
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[eddie] 🤣
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aaronpk Think of a framework as an opinionated collection of libraries
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[eddie] That’s a good way of phrasing it
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[relapse] Finally "finished" moving my blog from being Wordpress to being BitBucket + GitHook + MarkdownParser. Dumb fun static blog.
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[relapse] Found the daylerees/kurenai PHP library great for converting a MarkDown document with MetaData into HTML pages.
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[kevinmarks] In Soviet framework, library calls you.
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[jgmac1106] Ha hs
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[jgmac1106] Colin Morris++
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[jgmac1106] Oops
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[jgmac1106] Collin Morris++
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[jgmac1106] is it considered wrong to have more than one <main> tag on a page, realizing the cards tempalte I started for used <main> so I am using an article and main tag in each h-entry
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[jgmac1106] parses fine
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sknebel "The HTML <main> element represents the dominant content of the <body> of a document. [...] A document must not have more than one <main> element that does not have the hidden attribute specified" https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/main
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jgmac1106 figured it was wrong….now have some work to do to fix
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jgmac1106 that bumps the resume….grrrr
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Zegnat function inner() { … }; SomePromise.then(inner);
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: if your problem is with nesting functions you can totally chose to just define all the functions and just refer to them by name instead of nesting.
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Zegnat Is the same as
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Zegnat SomePromise.then(function(){ … });
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jeremycherfas I started to break things out, creating various objects spearately and only later adding them to the map. Along the way, though, I sometimes lose or add a } or a ) and it becomes a nightmare to find. I think BBedit has ways of identifying missing parentheses, and will investigate.
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jeremycherfas When I finsih this paid work.
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jeremycherfas That could help. Thanks.
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Zegnat Ha, somehow an issue of mine from 2013 got reopened yesterday. And it is about the `ch` unit, which was rediscovered at IWC this year :D https://github.com/mrcoles/markdown-css/issues/5
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Loqi [Zegnat] #5 Use CSS3’s ch unit for indenting text.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat++ for perseverance (by others)
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Loqi Zegnat has 60 karma in this channel over the last year (166 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas I also realised that I was getting myself in a right old mess with git by having an origin/dev branch. I really don't need it, unless I am moving from desktop to laptop, because I do it all myself and so only need to merge in master locally. That has simplified my life a bit.
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Zegnat I actually do push dev branches, sometimes even feature branches. See them more like an offsite backup by pushing them to e.g. GitHub than something that needs to be shared though
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jeremycherfas My problem had been pushing things in an unfinished state.
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Zegnat But that’s what git is for :D
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jeremycherfas But not necessarily github!
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jeremycherfas It was the difference between local and remote that confused me much of the time. And unless I am changing machines, I don't need the remote for anything except master.
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[tantek] eddie, routing and templating do sound like good use-cases for frameworks, and perhaps touch on my resistance to them (at least in PHP).
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[tantek] routing seems like something you either have to (or might as well - same/similar effort) do by hand the more picky you are about URL_design.
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[tantek] templating is definitely a weakpoint in my current code, and yet nearly all the template approaches I've seen are much uglier, or much bigger sources of ugliness
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[tantek] per all the documentation on https://indieweb.org/template
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[tantek] like I'd rather deal with some amount of copy/paste than an ugly template language and ugly templates
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GWG !tell [eddie]: New weather idea for you. Night mode.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jgmac1106 [tantek] kind of the reason I just added copy and paste tempalte rather than trying to get a read, listem and watch plugin for Known….will still build them for other peopel but for me seems like a ton of ork just to add -u-listen-of…..should take ten files to add one property to your HTML
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jgmac1106 work*
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[jgmac1106] shouldn't
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[tantek] Would appreciate any new insights on this: https://indieweb.org/template#HTML_based_template_formats
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[tantek] been a while since we've explored that here, and I figure someone somewhere else may have quietly made progress
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[jgmac1106] really all I want is a blank box where I can add HTML but all the IndieWeb building blocks are there, would need system for displaying comments...I couldn't build that either
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[eddie] GWG: what specifics are you thinking of?
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] at sunset do to a gradient, at dark go to dark
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[eddie] GWG: I’m also tempted to recreate the moon in a night mode, because with my weather I store the moon’s current phase
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[jgmac1106] sunrise gradient in other direction
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GWG [eddie]: When it is night, your website theme goes from light to dark?
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[jgmac1106] oooh stages of the moon and where it would be in sky
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[eddie] I have thought of that. I think that needs to be for the visitor
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GWG [eddie]: You can detect timezone on a site.
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[jgmac1106] ahh good point
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[eddie] I don’t think night theme should activate at MY night time 🙂
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[eddie] Yeah, exactly. I actually have an itch listed for that
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GWG [eddie]: For timezone detection?
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] that is a but over my head to help
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GWG I have a JS library for that
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GWG https://github.com/iansinnott/jstz
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Loqi [iansinnott] jstz: 🌐Timezone detection for JavaScript
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[eddie] For night mode when visitors night time
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GWG [eddie]: That is what I was thinking, using GeoIP and such
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[tantek] what is routing
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "routing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "routing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Eddie ^^^ perhaps you could define by the benefit you get from frameworks that do routing for you?
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[jgmac1106] Is there rule a for embedding h-feeds in an h-entry....should it never be done? Can they be nested?
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Zegnat You can nest anything in mf2, no rules. I think people may have experimented with nested feeds of comments within an h-entry, though I wouldn’t have any links at the ready.
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Zegnat But what do you imagine the consuming use-case to be, [jgmac1106]?
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[tantek] ^^^ this
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[eddie] tantek sure, happy to!
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[jgmac1106] so in a badging system each badge would have a page..but each issuance needs to be its own url....but on the badge page i want to list everyone as a recipient...my thinking is this would be an h-feed, and each issuance listed as an h-entry
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], to paraphrase you from #indieweb: publish now, worry about microformats when you are done, the consumers will tell you what they need ;)
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[jgmac1106] ha ha touche
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[jgmac1106] I am doing it now actually
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] perhaps get the issuance permalinks figured out and working first before you try to aggregate them into a feed on the badge page.
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Zegnat I am still not sure why you need a separate page per “issueance”
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[tantek] Zegnat, for each person to cite as the permalink evidence that they achieved the badge
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[tantek] without confusing it with other stuff that doesn't apply to them (other people getting it etc.)
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[jgmac1106] because when I add more -u-reply-of in content, every person who gets it will be displayed
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[jgmac1106] pust what t said
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Zegnat But surely that works even if there is only one post for the badge? You just need to check if you are one of the in-reply-to people.
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[jgmac1106] pluss
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[jgmac1106] yeah but say wikipedioa gave a badge out to each new contributor...do you want a list of every wikipedia contributor on your badge
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Zegnat Sounds more like the problem is putting the in-reply-to inside the content.
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Zegnat So the question is, why put that inside the content at all?
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Zegnat There are plenty properties we recommend against including within the content. photo is one of them, and the badges seem to want to rely on that too
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[jgmac1106] didn';t try that, will keep playing
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[jgmac1106] I am putting photo in content to see what happens
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[tantek] Zegnat so when someone else tries to quickly verify you achieved a badge they can do so without being burdened with wading through pages of content or long lists of other people etc.
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[tantek] it's not just for you yourself to "check if you are one of the in-reply-to people"
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[tantek] These motivations/use-cases are probably worth capturing somewhere like /badge#Permalink or something. [jgmac1106] WDYT?
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[jgmac1106] will do, let me try this prototype and I will add it
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Zegnat Ah, [tantek], you are thinking of the case where someone sees the badge on your page and then clicking it to go to the badge page, and then manualy checking whether you really did get the badge? Rather than a programmatic check? That makes sense then!
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[tantek] Yes
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[jgmac1106] https://jgregorymcverry.com/badges/ my comments are not set up to show photos would need to figure that out, think bulleted list is fine for recipients on badge page...unless something like indienews wanted to have a feed of every issuance
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Loqi [IndieWeb.org] To earn the tool builder badge you had tolaunch code with documentation for the community to use. jgmac1106 earned this badge as evidenced by IndieWeb Learning Networks
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jgmac1106 the other idea [zegnat] is that a badge uses webmentions but is published from a micropub client to both the issuer and the reciever site..I am using comments now as that is the only way I know how
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GWG What should a current weather widget look like? I am trying to enhance mine
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GWG It's just displaying the same data I pull for posts
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], using an in-reply-to seems valid almost in any case. The badge is in reaction to something on the URL it points at, so that seems fine
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[jgmac1106] yeah and I like it being a webmention badge
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[tantek] 15 year anniversary of XFN: http://tantek.com/2018/028/t3/xfn-14-indieauth-spec-published
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] 2017-12-15 was XFN’s 14th. While #IndieAuth / Web Signin #decentralized identity via XFN rel=me continues to grow, in 2017 @aaronpk wrote IndieAuth into a proper spec, published just last week by @W3C @SocialWebWG https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/NOTE-in...
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[tantek] sorry that URL is from the 14th anniversary, I haven't written a 15th anniversary post yet
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Zegnat What is XFN?
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Loqi XFN (XHTML Friends Network) is the network of visible links across blogs that claim various XFN relationships with/to each other https://indieweb.org/XFN
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Zegnat Aww, first URL there is still broken :(
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Zegnat Did anyone ever figure out who admins gmpg.org?
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[tantek] I need to ask Matt
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[tantek] somewhere I have admin access but with keys I've likely lost
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[tantek] so far the only big news I have for this past year of XFN is: 1. launch of indielogin.com which implements RelmeAuth, 2. rel=me support added to Mastodon and Pixelfed as the way to get a verified checkmark
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[tantek] anyone else think of anything else new?
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Zegnat Not directly. There might be more luck next year, if we see more development around follow lists and the like
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[tantek] we did see some activity around friends and follow-of but those did not use (nor need) XFN
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[tantek] rel-me << XFN
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Loqi ok, I added "[[XFN]]" to the "See Also" section of /rel-me https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54742&oldid=54736
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[jgmac1106] here is how I am displaying my badges, I figure I could use h-items and these could be in collections using p-category
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[jgmac1106] http://jgregorymcverry.com/badges/
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Loqi Chat Participant https://indieweb.org/images/9/93/Chat-NameBadge.png
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jgmac1106 not bad parsing: https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fbadges%2F
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Loqi Chat Participant https://indieweb.org/images/9/93/Chat-NameBadge.png
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jgmac1106 the p-criteria and p-evidence obviously get’s ignored, should use p-note for now
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aaronpk does anyone know if there is an actual github issue for tracking indieauth support in mastodon? nothing linked from here: https://indieweb.org/Mastodon#Requests
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aaronpk or if there has been any discussion about that somewhere?
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[jgmac1106] I find nothing with these search terms: @gargon indieauth usually anything taken serious is aired in public..but I also have no idea how good search is
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[tantek] aaronpk, I think everyone was waiting for you to file a github issue on Mastodon for IndieAuth support 🙂
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jacky lmfao
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jacky finishing up some work for categories in koype
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jacky realizing that I want to save the word "tag" specifically for mentioning other forms of content
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jacky I see (truly lol) the difference between categories and tags
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