#dev 2018-12-23

2018-12-23 UTC
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@mjmoriarity Starting to work on Webmention support for my blogging engine so I can get comments back on the site. (twitter.com/_/status/1076716550625939457)
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[tantek] nice
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/PaulAntWilliams/status/1076644712046579714
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@PaulAntWilliams @bentossell @indiewebcamp 😂 Could look something like the podcasts model, but built on existing more robust tech than RSS. Consumers interface on apps that don't care if you host on AWS or WP, with specialist hosts like @TransistorFM, or all-in-ones like @anchor (twitter.com/_/status/1076644712046579714)
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[tantek] "more robust tech than RSS." - exactly what we've been doing
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[tantek] Interesting idea: https://boffosocko.com/2018/12/22/newsrooms-take-the-comments-sections-back-from-platforms-nieman-journalism-lab/#comment-195866
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Loqi [Joseph Dickson] As someone who used to work for a couple local newspapers in the previous decade. I’d suggest not bothering with comments at all. Simply include a link to letters to the editor. They way they can receive feedback while creating a barrier of sorts. ...
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[tantek] "Only provide comments to paying customers. "
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[jgmac1106] if anyone wants to take a look at php this morning can't figure out where I went wron on my Known plugin: https://github.com/jgmac1106/Known-Listen
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Loqi [jgmac1106] Known-Listen: A Listen Plugin for Known
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GWG Good day
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[jgmac1106] Morning fine sir
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[jgmac1106] gwg++
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Loqi gwg has 42 karma in this channel over the last year (161 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] for simple locations
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[jgmac1106] I was so sick yesterday I forgot to send the Karma
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GWG jgmac1106, you tried it or just saw the note?
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GWG Also, feel better
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Zegnat !tell kisik21 Interesting reading about your h-card storing adventure. Did you set it to some max size? What happens when you feed it mine?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kisik21 !tell Zegnat if your h-card JSON is less than 64k you're good
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi kisik21: Zegnat left you a message 1 hour, 10 minutes ago: Interesting reading about your h-card storing adventure. Did you set it to some max size? What happens when you feed it mine?
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Zegnat Hmm. That sounds like a challenge
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Loqi Zegnat: kisik21 left you a message 1 minute ago: if your h-card JSON is less than 64k you're good
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kisik21 You want to break my cache?
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Zegnat Hmm. I am only at ~6000 characters on my mf2 JSON, looks like
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Zegnat So even at 1 byte per character, I need to up my h-card by a factor 10. Sounds like 64k is plenty for you
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kisik21 Zegnat, do you really want to break my cache?
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Zegnat Nope. I was just checking how your cache compared to my h-card.
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kisik21 I can put a single word in my uwsgi config and this 64k limit is as good as gone
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kisik21 the cache should become a little bit slower though
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Zegnat I just do not like hearing about arbitrary limites, makes me want to break the limites ;)
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kisik21 If you ever construct an h-card so large it could break my cache, ping me :3
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Zegnat Why did I decide to spell limits as limites? Ugh
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sknebel as long as the site doesn't break but just e.g. refuses the show info for that h-card limits are fine
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Zegnat Will do, haha
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kisik21 the cache itself can fit exactly 149 h-cards
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kisik21 why a number like this? because I heard that's how much people can a human fit in their head as friends
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kisik21 actually it should be 150, but the first cache entry is reserver
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Zegnat That’s interesting
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kisik21 s/r$/d/
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kisik21 cache keys are people's URLs
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kisik21 Zegnat: if you make me reply to a post with 150 different authors, you'll break my cache :3
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kisik21 the authors need to be urls
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Zegnat I have definitely mentioned companies on Twitter, looking for support. Not sure how that would be reflected in your system. Because those would be one-off mentions/replies. Wouldn’t be one of my 150-head-space-fitted-friends, but would still be authors I referenced.
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Zegnat So if you do that a lot, 150 might be limited
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GWG Every time you talk about nickname caches, I want to write one
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kisik21 it needs to be in .properties.author
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GWG Stop enticing me..
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kisik21 GWG: it's not a nickname cache sadly
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Zegnat lol @ GWG
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kisik21 it's just a thing that makes reply contexts show faster
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GWG Don't I have enough projects?
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kisik21 I built it because aaronpk's p3k was timing out trying to check my post for a link to his post for a reply
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kisik21 but if I make it not use uwsgi's internal cache (i can't iterate over uwsgi cache) it could be a nickname cache
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kisik21 And yes, you can't use pyindieblog without uwsgi because it uses uwsgi module
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GWG I got rid of reply context caching per se. I render them from cached properties on the fly
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kisik21 Well, I could archive an h-card
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kisik21 but then
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kisik21 avatars would not update
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kisik21 and if someone breaks the link to an avatar it would break!
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GWG That is my problem now
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@KempfCreative ↩️ Fair point but also extremely fatalistic thinking. Once/if WebMentions become permeated enough, the social web will make platforms like this obsolete. (twitter.com/_/status/1076873220161261569)
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Zegnat touching Micropub code again for the first time in at least a month. Hmm
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vasilakisfil hi I have a couple of questions: do I have to have my h-card in the index/root page of my domain or can it be in a separate page like /about? also if I have my blog in a different domain (blog.example.com), is that a problem ?
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Zegnat Loqi, noooo~
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vasilakisfil why was I kicked ?
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Zegnat Spam filter
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vasilakisfil needs better tuning :P
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Zegnat Freenode had terrible spam a while back. So e.g. posting links within x-seconds of joining can get you kicked.
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Zegnat Though I thought it was tuned down.
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Zegnat The fact Loqi gave you +v and then went on to kick you also surprised me
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Zegnat To answer the questions: you can put the h-card anywhere you want, same with your blog. Although it isn’t always clear for consumers of the h-card how to find the one for example.com if it lives at example.com/about
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vasilakisfil ok I see
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Zegnat I am one example of someone who publishes stuff on different domains from the h-card. And I think lots of indieweb infrastructure already supports that. No reason the author information needs to be on the same (sub)domain as a post.
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vasilakisfil ok but is the only way of pointing that your blog is under a given (different) domain the html link ?
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vasilakisfil or is it another (indieweb) way ?
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vasilakisfil I feel like the root domain of an entity (person or machine) is like the webfinger which sits in a well-known location (I am not huge fan of webfinger). So a machine/bot looking information for a given domain/person would first look in the root domain
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vasilakisfil but in order to figure out that there is some social content in another domain, that also belongs/is relevant to this root domain that indexes, we need a way to point that out
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Zegnat Some people have been playing with adding rel="feed" links pointing to blogs on their homepages/h-card, I believe
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Zegnat To communicate that, for a feed of posts, UAs have to go elsewhere
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vasilakisfil yeah I was thinking something similar, a link relation is a standardized way of pinpointing such things
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Zegnat Yep. And the feed relation is defined already
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vasilakisfil ah cool didn't know that
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Zegnat I think the majority of the indieweb is still running their main feed and (minimal) h-card on their root domain, however, so this issue doesn’t come up a whole lot. Though it has been getting more and more discussion lately.
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Zegnat As with everything indieweb, it is your website, just built it the way you want it to work :D
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vasilakisfil I went through indieweb this weekend, I liked many things but above all the value it gives to domains, like it's your little house
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vasilakisfil and if you think about it dns is one of the few distributed protocols (with smtp) that have not been substituted by a centralized proprietary protocol from the giants
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vasilakisfil I have a lot of work to do though, atm my site is completely static, I want to add webmention and micropub (I think I prefer it over activitypub)
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Zegnat Several people in the community use static sites
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vasilakisfil Zegnat static sites + webmention + comments ? I guess it's possible if you use external services for these ?
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sknebel or run them yourself, but at least something breaking there doesn't bring your main site down then
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kisik21 Zegnat: I ran a static site before I switched to my flask-based cms
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kisik21 and I turned my old static site in as web design homework lol
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@janboddez Been adding incoming Webmention support to my blog, a bit like so: https://github.com/janboddez/webmention-comments. (Mind you, I'd rather just use https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/, but right now I can't, thanks to the site's weird setup.) (twitter.com/_/status/1076909444989112322)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Yes webmentions works best when your theme handles microformats well. Getting a plugin to inject classes into HTMl without a theme or other plugin getting in the way has been elusive. Connecting to other #IndieWeb sites on WP requires use of… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/23/janboddez-yes-webmentions-works-best-when-your (twitter.com/_/status/1076910795206901760)
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GWG Little confused about what the weird setup is. Oh well
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KartikPrabhu GWG: you can reach out on twitter and ask
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GWG I may do that.
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@pfefferle ↩️ @janboddez Hey Jan, let me know if I can help you with your setup, or feel free to add some issues to https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues (twitter.com/_/status/1076932825599959041)
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