#dev 2019-01-01

2019-01-01 UTC
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ This sounds a lot like the Microsub spec which abstracts and separates the parsing and displaying of content. There are already several separate server and reader implementations if you're interested in tinkering. https://indieweb.org/Microsub https://boffosocko.com/2018/12/31/55739705/ (twitter.com/_/status/1079891569291849728)
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[tantek] uh oh
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Loqi [tantek]: [schmarty] left you a message 5 hours, 58 minutes ago: looks like your 🕸 links are out of date. possibly you added them very early before I had the URL normalization and hashing down pat? either way: your site is not currently in the 🕸 database. you can log in again to get fresh links.
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@t #microformats2 parsing spec updated: http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=66969&oldid=66967 * always parse alt with img src for accessibility info by default https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2 Implemented in current version of: * mf2py - behind flag, in use by http://Brid.gy This is a ... http://tantek.com/t4yG5 (twitter.com/_/status/1079984280539942914)
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@wolfwitte Now testing: Indigenous. Eine Micropub/Microsub-App für Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.indieweb.indigenous&hl=en_US (twitter.com/_/status/1080040412574826497)
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[kevinmarks] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2019/i-updated-mentiontech-to-output-webmentionio-compatible
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] I updated mention.tech to output webmention.io compatible JSON for mentions eg https://mention.tech/listmentions?target=https%3A%2F%2Ftumblelog.xyz&json=on and modified fluffy's script to show them on https://tumblelog.xyz/ at https://tumblelog.xyz/...
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kisik21 does mf2util output jf2? and why does jf2 not support multiple authors? (a completely sensible setting for a collaborative document)
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kisik21 I wasted SO MUCH TIME on supporting multiple authors in pyindieblog templates and now it is kinda sad for me to see that nobody else supports this stuff
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[kevinmarks] Hm. Jf2 doesn't inherently not support multiple authors, but it will make a children thing if there are multiple
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kisik21 children?
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[kevinmarks] https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/#multiple-items
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[kevinmarks] That's the tradeoff for things not being lists
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kisik21 if I sort by published as string, am I guaranteed to get the correct ordering of posts?
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Zegnat Will it do that even with the strict restriction that, “If present, [author] MUST be an object and it MUST contain at least a name, url, or photo property.”, [kevinmarks]? https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/#jf2feed_required_fields
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Zegnat I seem to recall discussing this with sknebel
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[kevinmarks] Hm. That may have got tighter since I wrote my jf2 converter
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sknebel [kevinmarks]: what do multiple elements in a document have to do with multiple values for a property?
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sknebel and ugh, annoying that jf2 explicitly forbids that :/
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[kevinmarks] Because my converter is recursive
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Zegnat Outside of Microsub (and I guess XRay?), does anything use jf2?
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sknebel wm.io has a mode for it
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Zegnat Ah, I didn’t know that, cool
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Zegnat wonders what it will return for a webmention with multiple authors
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sknebel I'd guess it uses xray, so whatever that does
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sknebel which probably is "the first it finds"
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[kevinmarks] Do you have a multiple author post?
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Zegnat I barely have any normal posts
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Zegnat Hoping to change that this year
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kisik21 Zegnat: I can try to make a test post on my staging instance and send a webmention for it. Just so you know, it uses my deadname though... >< i tried to showcase it to my web design professor in college
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kisik21 (he was impressed)
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Zegnat I don’t use wm.io to receive webmentions. Not sure if there is something akin to a test endpoint
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[kevinmarks] If you use mention.tech to send it you can compare what it thinks to webmention.io
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kisik21 Zegnat: well, I use webmention.io
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GWG Good morning all
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aaronpk oh wow PHP 5.6 is officially EOL now
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aaronpk as is 7.0
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Zegnat Yep! <3
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Zegnat Moved to 7.3 locally about a week ago, going to look at upgrading my server
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aaronpk guess I should do the same
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Zegnat Once I got past the whole 5.6 to 7.0 move, I’ve found the relatively quick iterations from 7.0 through 7.1 and 7.2 to 7.3 pretty easy
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GWG I should upgrade too, but my site is still 5.3/5.4 compatible
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[tantek] feels like yak-shaving
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GWG Probably
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GWG I like to keep my yaks presentable
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aaronpk doing these small upgrades more often is a good way to avoid getting into the situation we're in with the microformats wiki
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Zegnat And if you are in charge of your own server updates, keeps you from ending up running EOL’d libraries that aren’t getting security patches anymore
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GWG I am considering what improvements writing 5.3/5.4 compatible code might get me
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GWG I have been sticking to 5.2 functionality
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[tantek] Zegnat, good reason to minimize # of external libraries you run
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Zegnat For sure. But I can’t get around the webserver passing requests over (Fast-)CGI to PHP. As long as my number one dependency is PHP itself, I like to keep it up to date ;)
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sknebel yeah, PHP is something where I wouldn't want to run something that's not being patched anymore
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sknebel + the 7.x line is quite a bit faster by now, so better performance for little effort
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Zegnat The 5.6 -> 7.0 step can be some effort. But after that I have found it pretty painless.
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Zegnat Also happy I haven’t ran into any regex issues with the 7.3 upgrade (so far)
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[tantek] I like to keep my PHP use minimal (per CASSIS) so I shouldn't have any version # based dependencies
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[tantek] not really into all the fancy features
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GWG I want the null coalescing operator
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GWG Zegnat, what features were an effort from 5.6 to 7?
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Zegnat They changed chained variables ($a->$b[]) interpertation. I mostly stopped writing code that did that, because it isn’t clear when you read back, but it broke in some places with old code
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Zegnat And those were a little tricky to spot. Not hard to fix, just manual finding (or waiting for stuff to break in use).
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Zegnat If I had unit tests, I would have seen it fail immediately after running the tests after upgrading. But alas, I’ve only recently started doing testing for real
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Zegnat The migration code on php.net should tell you all you need to know though
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Zegnat https://secure.php.net/manual/en/migration70.php
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GWG I was reading that
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[kevinmarks] Json style array syntax is somewhere in there
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Zegnat Not sure what you mean by that, [kevinmarks]
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Zegnat For JSON in PHP, this is probably my favourite change in PHP 7.3: https://secure.php.net/manual/en/migration73.other-changes.php#migration73.other-changes.json
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[kevinmarks] I mean being able to do $v = {'a':2} instead of $v = array( a => 2)
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sknebel Zegnat: curious, did you look for tools to help with the variable order thing? that looks like something tooling could detect or even fix...
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[tantek] kevinmarks that's neat - sounds like it may expand the CASSIS subset!
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Zegnat That is not a supported syntax anywhere in PHP, AFAIK
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Zegnat PHP has $v = ['a'=>2]; which has been there since 5.4
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Zegnat sknebel, I didn’t look for tools, no. Nowadays I almost always run some sort of syntax checker so I’d think they might catch it for me. Does sound possible
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[kevinmarks] Ah, maybe I was doing it with lists
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[kevinmarks] So $v =[1,2,[3, 4]] works, but still need => rather than : for dicts?
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[kevinmarks] I am writing php, python and js so having common syntax is nice.
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[tantek] kevinmarks, would appreciate your shared snippets when you find such common syntax 🙂
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Zegnat [kevinmarks], that is correct
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Zegnat The colon rather than fat arrow was proposed way back, but PHP chose to go with the arrows
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Zegnat I don’t think they ever brought up switching again after that, but not sure. I think it was discussed somewhere around the time of the short array syntax (without array()) was discussed, so PHP 5.4
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[kevinmarks] I suppose I could call JSON to init arrays
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aaronpk wtf why is it so hard to get a systemd script for nginx working
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sknebel aaronpk: ?
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[tantek] what is systemd
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "systemd" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "systemd is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel (first question: what's wrong with the one the distro provided?)
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aaronpk i'm compiling nginx from source
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aaronpk so there isn't one provided
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[tantek] whoa
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sknebel why that? (although you probably can still use any ready-made one)
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aaronpk the one from the docs doesn't work, the systemctl command hangs even though nginx is started
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aaronpk I need to include some custom modules
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sknebel share the unit file somewhere and I can take a look
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aaronpk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/353a5cd52519b66a294e9d1abd3a44cd
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aaronpk i've tried both with and without the -g 'daemon on; master_process on;' part
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[tantek] what is systemctl
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "systemctl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "systemctl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel does it start if you run it manually?
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aaronpk yeah
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sknebel and create the pidfile in that location?
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aaronpk oh let me check that
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aaronpk aha it does not
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sknebel then set it in config or look up what default location you compiled it with and change the path
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sknebel (curious, what extra modules does the indieweb server need?)
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aaronpk sknebel++ that was it!
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Loqi sknebel has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (88 in all channels)
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aaronpk the nginx-push-stream module which is how all the realtime stuff works like for chat.indieweb.org
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sknebel ah
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Zegnat Isn’t the auth thing LASSO depends on also non-default?
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sknebel no
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Zegnat Hmm, thought that needed a separate flag during building to enable. But I might be misremembering
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aaronpk it's built into nginx but it does need a compile-time flag to enable it
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aaronpk not sure how to do that with a distro install either
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sknebel (side note, lasso helpfully decided to rebrand to "vouch", which isn't confusing at all in our context :D)
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aaronpk oh yeah lol
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[tantek] what is lasso
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Loqi Lasso is a Single-Sign On OAuth client that works with the Nginx auth_request module and supports IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/Lasso
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sknebel aaronpk: did you add full IndieAuth support to it or should that read IndieLogin?
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aaronpk yeah I guess that's using indielogin's API which also happens to look a lot like IndieAuth/OAuth
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aaronpk here's an example config https://github.com/LassoProject/lasso/blob/master/config/config.yml_example_indieauth
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[tantek] If you made a commitment in https://indieweb.org/2019-01-01-commitments, and haven't quite finished it, you still have today to do so! (y.t. included 😂) And if you finished yours, mark it done! [jgmac1106] [eddie] [gRegorLove] [sknebel] Jacky [schmarty]
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[schmarty] haha oops i should document my finished commitment.
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[tantek] yes yes! it helps inspire the rest of us to finish 😄
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[schmarty] i have been avoiding writing about it because it feels like a pyrrhic victory. 😂
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[schmarty] avoiding writing got my some procrastination energy to work on 🕸, so that's nice, lol
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[schmarty] *me
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[tantek] what is indiewebring
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Loqi Indiewebring is part of the great rebirth of of webrings powered by #IndieWeb technology that made 2018 the year of the webring and not the year of the microsub reader https://indieweb.org/indiewebring
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KartikPrabhu wow! that is some hype^ :)
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[tantek] 😂
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106] is all about the webrings lol
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[tantek] (shade thrown)
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[tantek] [schmarty] now that you've finished your commitment, any plans to start a 100 days project today? https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb
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[schmarty] [tantek] no plans for a 100 days challenge at the moment. i am too in flux! it is nice to feel un-blocked, though.
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[tantek] hey when did we lose the emoji-pairs and have to go to emoji-triples in indiewebring?
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sknebel oh right, I didn't finish the second half of it
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[schmarty] tantek: i moved from single-emoji to emoji-pairs after i implemented URL normalization (e.g. it was initially possible to log in as both http://tantek.com and http://tantek.com/). from emoji-pairs to emoji-triples when i removed flags from the emoji hash set.
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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[schmarty] currently thinking about yet another pass of emoji removal 😒. not sure what schema i'll choose after that. maybe i'll lock one emoji in place and go back to assigning pairs.
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[tantek] ah that makes sense
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[tantek] hmm so far I've clicked "right arrow" then back 5 times and not found a site with the indieweb ring nav links 😞
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[tantek] the first 3 had zero webring links. the 4th had a microcast or blog webring link pair, but no "indieweb webring" links. the 5th was a dead site
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[tantek] http://andynicolaides.com/
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[schmarty] dang, so many ring breakers.
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[tantek] ah number 6 finally
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[schmarty] i am refactoring stuff just now to make it easier to re-crawl for ring breakers and disable them.
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[tantek] great
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sknebel [schmarty]: did you ever remove ringbreakers?
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[tantek] would also be good if people could report them
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[schmarty] haha, i am totally gonna make a report page that will check up on them. :}
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sknebel (cause I know I logged in when the link first appeared just to see what was going on and was kind of surprised it immediately stored me)
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[schmarty] sknebel: my IWC hack day projects often assume extreme good faith 😂
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sknebel sure, to be expected, but cases like that might explain why there's relatively many breakers, if the DB was never cleaned
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jacky ooh I totally hit my committments!
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jacky lemme write about them
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[schmarty] watches 🕸 garden itself for the first time
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[schmarty] 82 sites active out of 171!
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