#dev 2019-01-02

2019-01-02 UTC
[tantek], neil, bradenslen, [davidmead] and Jookia joined the channel
#
[tantek] !tell aaronpk does OwnYourGram support retrieving the alt text from Instagram posts (https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/28/instagram-alt-text-visually-impaired/) and passing it along with the image to micropub?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[tantek] Instagram << Feature: alt text for photos since 2018-11-28! https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/28/instagram-alt-text-visually-impaired/
#
Loqi ok, I added "Feature: alt text for photos since 2018-11-28! https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/28/instagram-alt-text-visually-impaired/" to the "See Also" section of /Instagram https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=55208&oldid=55084
#
Jookia o/ So are the fundamentals I need for indieweb compatbility just microformats and webmention?
#
[tantek] what are building blocks?
#
Loqi Building blocks are key design-patterns, technologies, and methods for building and improving your independent website https://indieweb.org/building-blocks
#
Jookia I see, thanks
#
[tantek] No problem! And welcome!
#
Jookia For Facebook I imagine I'd do copy paste posting and scrape my account notifications for backwash
#
Jookia with some python to parse it
#
[tantek] Unfortunately yes, manual POSSE to FB is all we're left with, and yes some sort of hacky solution to extract the responses/reactions to your posts ever since the shutdown the necessary APIs last August.
[Serena] joined the channel
#
Jookia For actual open protocols I'd probably want to implement those. A single-user ActivityPub server comes to mind that publishes content and generates a feed of backwash events. Doesn't sound that hard since I won't be doing authentication or GUI work
#
Jookia The only activitypub/mastodon <-> webmention bridge I can find is bridgy-fed. Are there any others?
#
jacky you wouldn't have to produce a whole AP server
#
jacky but largely output ActivityStreams / JSON-LD on your site and emit the right bits of info via WebFinger
#
KartikPrabhu jacky: not sure why webfinger is relevant to new users trying to POSSE to FB
#
jacky I'm speaking re: ActivityPub server
#
KartikPrabhu sure, but why is it relevant
#
jacky this post lightly explains it https://gkbrk.com/2018/06/fetching-activitypub-feeds/
#
jacky webfinger is a component of discovery if one's building an AP server
#
jacky was just throwing that info out there
#
jacky since Jookia mentioned curiosity about other AP servers and is actively working on their own solutions
#
KartikPrabhu I think the main goal here is to POSSE to FB, yes Jookia?
#
jacky that was one
#
jacky but then https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-01-02/1546411932320400
#
Loqi [Jookia] For actual open protocols I'd probably want to implement those. A single-user ActivityPub server comes to mind that publishes content and generates a feed of backwash events. Doesn't sound that hard since I won't be doing authentication or GUI work
#
Jookia KartikPrabhu: I'm currently using a separate website, Facebook and Mastodon. It would be nice to POSSE to all, but it would be really nice to have backwash too
[tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] jacky, Webfinger is not relevant to ActivityPub, it's a bit of legacy from past (pre-AP) attempts. With Bridgy Fed you don't even need that (WF) to interop with Mastodon.
cweiske joined the channel
#
[tantek] Jookia - I think by backwash you mean what we refer to as backfeed?
#
[tantek] what is backfeed
#
Loqi Backfeed is the process of syndicating interactions on your POSSE copies back (AKA reverse syndicating) to your original posts https://indieweb.org/backfeed
#
Jookia Oops, yes. I don't know why I remembered it was backwash
jjuran and [Vincent] joined the channel
#
[Vincent] morning Indieweb
#
[Vincent] lol backwash 😆
#
Zegnat With Bridgy Fed you still need to setup redirects for webfinger from your own site to Bridgy, IIRC
#
[tantek] that's a far cry from having to deal with webfinger itself
#
[tantek] the redirects don't require any unique information
#
[tantek] just a bit of static copy/paste glue
tbbrown joined the channel
#
Zegnat Yep. And the documentation is pretty easy. Bridgy Fed even links to a WordPress plugin for redirects
barpthewire, swentel, swentie, [kevinmarks], [alexbayleaf], bradenslen and leg joined the channel; Jookia left the channel
#
@janboddez 'Crossplatform reageren.' https://seblog.nl/2018/05/09/5/de-magie-van-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1080440824679280640)
[davidmead] joined the channel
#
sknebel [davidmead]: and what does bridgy complain about if you try it with the home page?
[Vincent] joined the channel
#
Zegnat Also, to answer “and i thought they should be in the <head> of the page too”: it doesn’t matter where on the page the rel="me" links are
#
[davidmead] after using the IndieAuth on Brid.gy it gives me the message…“Please add https://davidjohnmead.com/profile/davidmead to your Instagram profile’s website or bio field and try again.”
#
[davidmead] If I change it to that then OwnYourGram will break as that uses the root domain (already pulled in the last lot of photos successfully)
#
[davidmead] zegnat that’s what I thought
#
sknebel is your known configured as a single-user site?
#
sknebel it tells the site you log in to that your url is "https://davidjohnmead.com/profile/davidmead", so that's what bridgy thinks (and I'd guess ownyourgram too actually, unless that has some special case for that)
#
sknebel I think known changed that for single-user sites at some point
#
[davidmead] sknebel it is. should I change it to multi-user to overcome this?
#
sknebel no
#
sknebel hm, is your known install to old to include that fix? where did you install it from?
#
[davidmead] I installed it from withknown.com, but mapkyca suggested I pull from him to overcome a different issue
#
[davidmead] I’m on 0.9.9 but I think his latest package is 0.9.9a
#
sknebel yeah, they haven't done a release in ages...
#
sknebel that's probably the problem then
#
[davidmead] I’m reinstalling that tonight so hopefully that fix a lot of my ails 🙂
#
sknebel although ownyourgram should also work with the profile url
#
[davidmead] step zero - don’t install Known from official site 😜
#
sknebel so that shouldn't be a problem actually, "just" a bit ugly to have the profile url instead of the home page on the sites
#
sknebel did ownyourgram break for you with that changE?
#
[davidmead] I haven’t changed OwnYourGram as that’s where it was pointing from my old WP install
#
[davidmead] I didn’t want to change it just in case
#
sknebel ok, so it didn't actually break
#
sknebel so really the only thing the newer known would get you is being able to use the homepage url in the descriptions/links on silos, the functionality of bridgy and ownyourgram should work with the profile url
#
sknebel (still probably a good idea to use a newer one)
#
[davidmead] It was more the worry of “breaking” it by changing URLs in multiple places
#
[davidmead] thanks
#
[davidmead] i’ll see if I can get it running tonight
#
[davidmead] I’m writing up all the “issues” I’m running into, and the solutions
eli_oat, [smerrill], snarfed, callMeBaby, eli_oat1, [manton], [jgmac1106], [davidmead], [cleverdevil], KartikPrabhu, [adamprocter], [tantek], [stefp] and [eddie] joined the channel; KartikPrabhu left the channel
#
[cleverdevil] Definitely install from the latest Known GitHub
KartikPrabhu and callMeBaby joined the channel
#
[tantek] aaronpk, the user authoring design is pretty simple. Want to create a hashtag with spaces for POSSE or other syndication purposes? use two underscores __ for each space.
#
[tantek] am open to alternatives for hashtag syntax for spaces
KartikPrabhu, jjuran, snarfed, [adamprocter], [tantek] and Jookia joined the channel
#
Jookia Can I have multiple users on a single website? webmention seems like an interesting way to make a forum
#
[tantek] You can yes and Known supports that.
#
[tantek] The key here is rethinking what a "forum" means instead of assuming it means a centralized website
#
[tantek] E.g. individual members of the forum should be able to post to it from their own websites, and the forum turns into essentially an aggregator of sorts
#
Jookia like a mailing list or usenet
#
[tantek] indeed both are good analogies depending on how you want the forum to behave, if there is an admin and what role they play
#
Jookia broadcasting new threads might not scale that well
#
[tantek] how can you conclude that without a model of how it works underneath?
#
[tantek] s/conclude/assert
#
[tantek] The underlying challenge is this: create a forum that doesn't actually require yet another login, username, password etc.
#
Jookia Well, on a board with 5000 separate websites means at minimum a new thread needs to be broadcast from one node to each website. Unless some kind of multicast
#
[tantek] start with that assumption, that people already have an account / identity (their URL) and your forum should be ready to accept it as their identity, without creating any kind of new "account"
#
[tantek] presumably there are mailing lists with over 5000 members and those get broadcast to potentially 5000 nodes depending on where people have email addresses
#
Jookia I suppose relays and multi-user sites would really help here
#
KartikPrabhu what is webmention
#
Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
#
Jookia The only other protocol I've thought of for making a distributed forum has been NNTP which seems to be a similiar concept
#
KartikPrabhu not sure why all this speculation before trying out a model
#
Jookia Looking for prior work
#
KartikPrabhu what is forum?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "forum" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "forum is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
KartikPrabhu Jookia: feel free to start that page and collect examples of prior work
#
Jookia i don't know any, that's why i was asking ;)
#
KartikPrabhu there are many personal websites which use webmention, not sure why a "forum" is especially different
#
KartikPrabhu like [tantek] said a forum seems like an aggregator sort of like a reader
snarfed and tomasparks joined the channel
#
jacky so at https://indieweb.org/like#receive_and_markup_incoming_likes, I'm a bit torn
#
jacky I want to link to the liker's h-card and point to the URL of their like
#
jacky but it doesn't seem like I can do both?
#
jacky at least within a `h-cite`