#dev 2019-02-06
2019-02-06 UTC
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@jackyalcine ↩️ We can do better now though. We have the know-how and experience too. Personally, opting for something like http://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ via https://indielogin.com would be a BIG sell (twitter.com/_/status/1092946592879931394)
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eddiehinkle I don't know why I've been ignoring what jgmac1106 has been saying about glitch ... I've been trying to figure out the best way to help get one-stop IndieWeb software more available. My site is currently in Node.js and I was thinking rebuilding everything in PHP to work on standard web hosts might be the answer...
# eddiehinkle You can export to GitHub
# eddiehinkle since everything is stored in flat files, it would always be accessible from your GitHub repo
# eddiehinkle the biggest issue is yes, it's the only simple node.js host
# eddiehinkle It's great though that it has custom domains, most of my CMS should already work there, and it is relatively simple for people to get started if I had it all built
# eddiehinkle Definitely a potentially better solution than rebuilding my entire CMS lol!
# eddiehinkle Because I want to eat my cooking so, whatever I build I still want to use for my main CMS
# eddiehinkle 😆
# eddiehinkle Trying it out as the new phrase to see how it feels
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jacky https://mutant.tech/ checking this out as a icon set for my site
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@vincentlistens Last night I finished implementing the latest updates to the website design.
Micropub content is far better integrated. I also took the time to fix my Microformats implementation. Webmentions should display correctly \o/
#Indieweb #HTML #Micropub #css
https://vincentp.me/notes/2019/02/06/07-31/ (twitter.com/_/status/1093051245349273600)
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petermolnar I can nearly completely represent the data of my article in json-ld, but there is one exception: links to ping for syndication. 'sameAs' works for the end result, but not for links like fed.brid.gy
# petermolnar anyone has thoughts about this?
# petermolnar oh, schema.org
# petermolnar I might need another vocabulary to represent this, though I'd really like to avoid starting mixing them
# petermolnar found one: potentialAction -> InteractAction, with a single URL
# petermolnar (context: yesterday I caved in and decided to drop microdata/rdfa in favour of json-ld, but if I do this, I really want to find a way to represent everything in json-ld and then use that as source of truth instead of multiple levels of templating)
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# petermolnar if it's unique (eg. one-off), it's in the post meta, in yaml, as syndicate: []
# petermolnar otherwise it gets populated on build: if the photo is a post, the brid.gy/flickr link needs to be there, plus fed.brid.gy all the time
# petermolnar is the post is a photo
# petermolnar not photo is post
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jeremycherfas Cannot understand why my h-card photo is not showing up at https://indieweb.org/User:Jeremycherfas.net All suggestions gratefully received.
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sknebel jeremycherfas: https://www.jeremycherfas.net/user/plugins/aboutme/assets/avatars/zoot.jpg is 404 for me?
# sknebel the url on your homepage is https://www.jeremycherfas.net/user/themes/mytheme/images/zoot.jpg
# jeremycherfas Yes, but where its it picking that up? I've changed the image, I know, but I cannot remember where in the wiki I insert the location of the avatar.
# jeremycherfas sknebel++
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[jgmac1106] yes, he is the current head of DCMI, so I didn't want to pull a "well, actually" card from the deck after the intro
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# [jgmac1106] many of the things I was checking out last night parse HTML or look to OG for docuemnt details
# [jgmac1106] some of the DC tools really old and broken, he admitted in the tweet that DC is falling out of favor and they are trying to decide what to do
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@paulwalk @jgmac1106 Yes - completely agree! By the way - we have reimplemented Dublin Core website with Hugo, re-launching imminently, also looking to embed tech metadata about the vocabs in the pages (twitter.com/_/status/1093125701681770496)
# petermolnar hm. my 2014 photo archive page HTML is 700KB (73KB gzipped). For me, it looks horrible, but in the world of MBs of JS, it's not that bad, is it?
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# [Vincent] obviously the smaller the better. But anything under 1mb is probably ok in most circumstances
# [Vincent] I say that in a pragmatic way rather than advocating that file size of course!
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[kevinmarks] 73KB gzipped is good
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# [kevinmarks] yes, and also we realised that spaces meant there was no collision with id's
# [kevinmarks] it was worse than that - a second # crashed some url parsers
# [kevinmarks] sure, which is why I said 'fallback'
# [kevinmarks] also, the other syntaxes are very unlikely to cause a fragmention match
# [kevinmarks] unless it is a document about fragment syntaxes
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# [kevinmarks] right, it still works
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# treora Hmm.. I wonder if there is an alternative to the double ## that would make fragmentions distinguishable. It is a little weird if you cannot link to words that happen to also be used as an id somewhere; and if you cannot from seeing a url tell what type of fragid it has without getting the content; and upon content change (in case a new id is added) the fragid type may change and point to that instead (though changing documents can of course break links
# treora anyway, not sure we should worry about that).
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# treora I also would love the ability to shorten long quotes, so you can quote a paragraph using its first and last couple of words. I thought of treating an three-dot ellipsis specially, letting it match any text. E.g. #Lorem ipsum...blabla qed.
# [kevinmarks] It's very rare to link to a single word though
# [kevinmarks] if it has a space in, it's definitely not an id
# [jgmac1106] This is where I have been playing with <details>
# [kevinmarks] the idea of fragmention was that it matched the containing element (for scroll purposes) so you pick enough distinguishing text for that paragraph
# treora When designing a spec I would try not to assume too much about 'common' use cases.. I imagine it would be mysterious to users if they cannot link to some single words, but can link to others.
# [jgmac1106] Put s segment in summary and then nesting <details> for replies
# [kevinmarks] but using it for quotes is interesting as you can then get the quote just from the URL
# [kevinmarks] also, you get some extra resilience if the document does go away or change
# treora Yes having the full quote inside the url has its merit too.. which would in any case remain possible.
# [kevinmarks] any kind of soft matching can be applied to this too if you ae making a smarter plugin
# treora [kevinmarks]: did you have a solution to resolve ambiguity? If I want to point at a phrase that appears multiple times?
# treora [kevinmarks]: so you basically leave it up to the user to select a larger piece until it is unambiguous?
# [kevinmarks] yes, and ideally make that clear in the UI of the tool
# treora "While there have been proposals to link to the nth occurrence using more complex syntax, I don't think this is actually a natural choice, and likely to be more fragile."
# treora I agree with that; occurrence count seems a little awkward.
# treora I do see some merit in the approach of adding prefix and suffix text to disambiguate
# treora e.g. using paretheses or something more url-compatible: #(the selected )word( with context)
# [kevinmarks] My original post about it explains the motivation - I was always thinking of longer quotes rather than the minimal length URL http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html
# [kevinmarks] there is the challenge of dealing with quotes edited for clarity
# [kevinmarks] you could write a parser that handles common elisons like [he] and …
# [jgmac1106] Ohh because you can't use [] in a url?
# [kevinmarks] you can, yes
# [kevinmarks] if you think about the mention quote case, you often need to elide the quote, especially for twitter
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# [kevinmarks] (less so now it's twice as long, but I have often used '…' and changed 'and' to '&' or 'one' to '1'
# treora Yes I start seeing how your decisions followed from your intended use case.. I personally hope to make something that makes few assumptions about use cases, so that people can build tools upon it with different purposes. (e.g. a translator tool might want to highlight a single word in the source text, and could use fragmentions to link to them)
# treora [kevinmarks]: oh interesting idea to take square brackets into account; would be cool if the browser understands that "[he] left the building" should match any text for the [he] part.
# treora And treating three periods specially would not be necessary; you could just use [...] as ellipsis. :)
# treora I may try out that syntax in https://github.com/Treora/quoteurl
# [kevinmarks] hah, loqi is turning [name] into @name
# [kevinmarks] I use … on twitter to save chars ... is 3 … is 1 (used to be 2)
# treora yes unicode ellipsis might make sense too.. I just thought of using three periods to not need percent-encoding in a URL.
# treora Heh, yes. Difference in readability though.
# treora Anyhow, I may look into this again some time soon, when I allow my attention to turn to annotation stuff again.
# treora kthxbye
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Loqi A feed is a dynamic set of posts, typically listed in reverse-chronological order, often only the most recent n (like 10) of them https://indieweb.org/feed
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[tantek] it's not on /feed nor on /feed-file
# [tantek] dives into a bit of a rabbithole and finds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_Advisory_Board
# [tantek] their site hasn't been updated in ~5 years: http://www.rssboard.org/
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "link post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "link post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indieweb.org/bookmark
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aaronpk my linkblog https://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "qoute" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "qoute is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "quote post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "quote post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# snarfed here's an example of an atom reply. note the activity:object-type "comment" and thr:in-reply-to. https://granary.io/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsnarfed.org%2F2019-01-11_eddiehinkle-com-5
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# [tantek] aaronpk, however, I did some digging, your challenge "mf2 does not support an extension mechanism" has at least some surface merit - as in http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 nor microformats2-parsing describe an extension mechanism. It's buried here: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-origins#VENDOR_EXTENSIONS as a "Proposal" which means it "exists" but "supports" is debatable from a formal perspective
# [tantek] I had been treating that as a "done deal" and "assumed part of microformats2", however the documentation needs to be updated to reflect that, and when I moved content to microformats2-origins, I neglected to capture the formal extension mechanism in the microformats2 spec (it was there for a long time)
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# [kevinmarks] The json-lz approach is better than json feeds I think
# [kevinmarks] (add an object to nest things that will clash)
# [kevinmarks] The fediverse has a lot of atom+as1+poco interop. Multiple implementations, not just forks.
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[cleverdevil] I did open an issue in JSON Feed shortly after it was introduced to ask about plans for representing microformats - https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/51
# [cleverdevil] Conversation sort of went sideways, as these things tend to.
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# [tantek] aaronpk, desktop web Slack UI, compare "dev" and "indieweb" channels. hover over the channel topic at the top (right next to the star people pin icons with numbers in grey text at the top), channel topic will display, and in "dev" the logs link is *not* blue, while in "indieweb", the logs link *is* blue and clickable.
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# [aaronpk] [aaronpk] set the channel topic: IndieWeb development-focused chat - logs at https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/today - bridged with #indieweb-dev
# [aaronpk] [aaronpk] set the channel topic: IndieWeb development-focused chat - logs at https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/today - bridged with #indieweb-dev in IRC
# [kevinmarks] thats 3 different codebases
# [kevinmarks] follow those from a gnusocial instance and they all show notes and poco h-card alikes
# [kevinmarks] OStatus is defined additively, not all or nothing, so it has fallback interop
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[pfefferle] Friendi.ca, gnu.social and mastodon are supporting the atom+as1+poco combination
# [kevinmarks] and pleroma
# [pfefferle] They use the poco stuff for profile display stuff
# [pfefferle] Und as1 for activity type
# snarfed oh wow here's an actual tested interop matrix btw implementations: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321419601_The_Current_State_of_Interoperability_in_Decentralized_Online_Social_Networking_Services#pf5
# [kevinmarks] thats the seconds site with an expired letsencrypt cert (after mastodon.social) 😞
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# [kevinmarks] plateia.org was expired
# [kevinmarks] status.net was sold
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "plateia" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "plateia is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [kevinmarks] Plateia is the postactiv lead dev's home-cooked instance
# [kevinmarks] Oops
# [kevinmarks] I didn't see loqi there
# [kevinmarks] It's still up, just with an expired cert
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# [jgmac1106] !tell schmarty something happened to your listen posts now just getting a shortened url? Though lastFM maybe different than overcast
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106]: are you looking in indigenous? where are you reading this?
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# [jgmac1106] Indigenous, only getting a shortened url, one sec
# [jgmac1106] And it is your overcast.fm
# [jgmac1106] Which is weird when you threw up all over my reader all the deets were there
# [schmarty] jgmac1106: yeah i have been meaning to poke [eddie] about those
# [jgmac1106] @swentel iOS is gross
# [schmarty] i include a `summary` for the post, so even though indigenous doesn't understand a listen-of post, it should show the summary.
# [schmarty] but it doesn't. 🤷
# [jgmac1106] It is weird looking at your source code it is the summary I see but on your website it is full url but in Indigenous it is overcast.fm short code
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@RosemaryOrchard ↩️ Curious: what's your opinion on @OAuth_io or IndieAuth? Equally annoying or ok? I'm on the fence with using other services or email. (twitter.com/_/status/1093267253129347077)
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# [jgmac1106] Hey will unmung take an mf2 feed and spit out the xml file I need for podcasts.... Need to finish migrating podcasts but writing the xml file is such a drag
# snarfed [jgmac1106]: feel free to upvote https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/124
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# [jgmac1106] Snarfed done, wish I could do more than ask others to do stuff
# [jgmac1106] Reminds me to add GitHub plugin tonight
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# [kevinmarks] I have a half assed attempt at that, but it is xoxo to podcast feed
# [jgmac1106] !tell Snarfed I may hVe messed up Bridgy for WordPress.com in my last PR... I can't get the link people need to add
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# [jgmac1106] Yes just took picture but it was existing user, setting up a dummy account to test freah
# [tantek] [manton] I would love to work with you to figure out how to get my photos to show up in my micro.blog feed https://micro.blog/t
# [tantek] e.g. my account https://micro.blog/account has Website: [ http://tantek.com/ ]
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# [jgmac1106] I am hoping by the end of the IWC Feb-Mar run there is a Micropub client so my hosted microblog site is the same so it isn't just my rss feed in my timeline but on my microblog site as well.
# [jgmac1106] I don't know how to do it do I figure to months is a perfect window of time to explain to people why they need this solution as well
# [jgmac1106] Two*
# [jgmac1106] The ActivityPub integration with Mastodon is so spot on... Want to try and take advantage of this feature more