#dev 2019-04-29

2019-04-29 UTC
#
GWG Why can't I get the wiki's avatar of me to change?
#
GWG Where is that one coming from?
BenLubar, KartikPrabhu, chrisaldrich, cweiske and ingoogni joined the channel
#
Zegnat GWG, do you mean the one on https://indieweb.org/Template:GWG ?
kants_, ben_thatmustbeme, swentel, [audioundergroun, sebsel, [jgmac1106] and iasai joined the channel
#
GWG Morning all
#
GWG Zegnat, didn't work
#
Zegnat That one looks fixed to me? Where are you seeing broken images?
#
Zegnat Note that /chat-names is separate from your template and all other pages on the wiki. So that might require fixing by itself
#
GWG I fixed both
#
GWG The organizers page for Berlin still has the old link
[Rose] joined the channel
#
Zegnat Let me check
#
Zegnat GWG: Fixed
#
GWG I had more than one?
#
GWG I never even set up one
#
Zegnat Hahahaha, it happens rather quickly.
#
Loqi hehe
#
Zegnat Sometimes just people trying to be helpful when non-existing templates got used in writing
#
Zegnat I have both {{zegnat}} and {{Zegnat}} linked to my canonical {{martijnvdven}} https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:martijnvdven&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1
#
GWG Wonder if I should add a redirect for dshanske
#
Zegnat I would only do so if you or someone else is using that to refer to you
#
Zegnat pre-emptive redirects for templates do not make a lot of sense to me
#
Zegnat This should’ve all been discussed in #meta probably, my apologies to everyone else here!
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG Dev question, there is rel=me. Is there a rel=notme?
#
Zegnat no, but XFN defined other relations I believe
#
Zegnat which, if used, should make clear it is a different person
swentie joined the channel
#
GWG I just am wondering how I solve my confused with my cousin problem.
#
GWG You are a useful person to ask Zegnat as you, like me, use a domain name that is your name
#
GWG Not everyone does
#
Zegnat rel="kin" would work for your cousin, if you really want to advertise a relation that should make it clear the person on the other end of the hyperlink is not you
#
Zegnat But I am not sure I would even use any markup at all
#
Zegnat AFAIK nobody in my extended family has the same first name. And I have met several Martijns but never with the same last name. Haven’t given the issue much thought.
swentel joined the channel
#
GWG Zegnat, different first name, same initial
#
Zegnat If you are in an SEO war, make sure to atleast put nofollow on any links you may include, GWG ;)
#
GWG I'm not really
#
GWG I joke about it a little, but he's a tax professor. We shouldn't overlap
#
[Rose] A simple solution might be to change your name 😛
#
[Rose] (I kid, but unfortunately I have nothing helpful to advise)
#
GWG [Rose]: The cousin in question did that already
[frank], eli_oat, [eddie], [grantcodes], [jgmac1106], [Zegnat], [cleverdevil], [Yulia], sonny, [Rose], [tantek], neoaboriginal1 and chrisaldrich joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich I seem to remember someone having built a CSS tool that would check for microformats accidentally included. Does anyone else recall it? Know where it can be found?
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich GWG, you've got an easier time of it compared with the "other" Chris Aldrich I know. Unfortunately he appeared as the lead contestant on season 2 of "Dating Naked" on VH1. It created some SEO problems for me and completely made my snapchat account NSFW or even general use.
#
[tantek] [chrisaldrich] I know you're not confusing CSS and class names right? 🙂 http://tantek.com/2012/353/b1/why-html-classes-css-class-selectors
#
Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Why you should say HTML classes, CSS class selectors, or CSS pseudo-classes, but not CSS classes
#
[tantek] for anyone considering implementing "quotation" posts especially if you plan on POSSEing them to e.g. Twitter, would appreciate your feedback! https://indieweb.org/quotation#plain_text_design
#
chrisaldrich Haven't had my coffee yet, but yes, I'm looking for something that will highlight when microformats classes are being (inadvertently or mis-)used for styling.
#
Zegnat I don’t think CSS by itself can detect whether any other rules have also been applied to a class
#
chrisaldrich I suppose the right way to say it is a parser that will find microformat class selectors in style files
#
chrisaldrich Something that would have found the dozens of .hentry styles hiding in WordPress' TwentyFourteen theme https://wordpress.org/themes/twentyfourteen/
#
sknebel chrisaldrich: anything that can do regex-search is a good start IMHO
#
sknebel that's how I did it when someone asked which of the themes available for free wp.com have mf1 in them
#
[tantek] [chrisaldrich] on the flip side, I'm still looking for input from WordPress (theme) experts on the potential use of additional class names in mf2 h-entry backcompat parsing specifically to get more information from widely deployed WordPress themes - would appreciate your analysis and insights on this issue: https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/7
#
Loqi [tantek] #7 Can we improve h-entry backcompat to handle common WordPress hentry streams?
#
[tantek] I think there may be ways (with a little bit of specification/parser work) to support lots of those free wp themes that have mf1 in them
#
chrisaldrich tantek, my question is actually moving somewhat towards that very direction...
#
[tantek] since we know they're fairly "stable" at this point since they depend on the markup!
#
chrisaldrich I was looking at GWG's current theme which has both mf1 and mf2 and I'm somewhat curious if there's really a use case for having both other than potentially working with older parsers that don't have mf2. I'm sort of curious how many legacy ones there might be in active use outside of the IndieWeb community?
#
chrisaldrich I spent some time over the weekend discussing the upgrade march from php 5.X to 7.X and where CMSs, hosts, etc. draw the line for support, but haven't ever seen a similar discussion for microformats.
#
chrisaldrich In the upcoming WordPress 5.2 they're going to start doing some intelligent things for either showing/not showing themes and plugins that don't support particular versions or providing admin notifications to encourage people to upgrade and understand the relevant issues.
#
[tantek] [chrisaldrich] I wouldn't focus on the folks here or mixed mf1 mf2 setups because those are way in the minority/edge cases which we can work with directly.
#
[tantek] I'd rather see analysis of the most popular themes and which class names they use
#
[tantek] There's a ton of hentry out on the web due to WordPress and I feel like with a few small tweaks we should be able to parse post name, content, author, publish date from the majority
#
chrisaldrich definitely ^^ that, but I'm also more curious about the broader outside world in terms of broader adoption/spread.
#
[tantek] [chrisaldrich] I see two big "broader adoption/spread" groups, 1 the abovementioned existing popular theme users, and 2 folks adopting/switching to Gutenberg. Not sure it's worth even spending time on other edgecases until we feel like we understand (and handle!) those two
#
[tantek] Let's get the 95% before focusing on the 5% (or less)
#
chrisaldrich is a fan of J.M. Juran and Vilfredo Pareto too! ;)
[cleverdevil] and leg joined the channel
#
chrisaldrich In some sense, I was also asking for myself for something I'm building. I'd love to get away with only needing the cognitive load for mf2 and completely ignoring mf1, but are there awesome things out there that I'll feel remiss about it later?
#
chrisaldrich At present I'm unaware of any...
[chrisaldrich], leg, dgold and gxt joined the channel; dgold left the channel
#
GWG I don't understand Gutenberg
#
GWG I need to find someone to help put it in perspective for me
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] gwg start going to the wordpress meet ups in your area...though a fortune teller or soothsayer conference may work as well...we don't know what the next few phases will look like
[chrisaldrich] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG There isn't one in Queens or LI I know of
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
gRegorLove chrisaldrich: mf1 hReview being supported by Google search results is one use-case for publishing mf2 + mf1. I'm not aware of many others.
#
gRegorLove If you use h2vx.com, that only works with hCalendar, not h-event, so that might be another.
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] Chrisaldrich, gwg, Tantek, gRegorLove I think back compat with parsers would be awesome as then people do not need to do anything
#
gRegorLove mf2 parsers are backwards compatible
#
[jgmac1106] That said you can get real close with any theme just deleting mf and adding mf2 plugin... My parsing errors seem to be caused by a problem in the plugin
#
gRegorLove Talking about specific consumers that might require mf1
[tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] gregorlove please see the issue for context
#
[tantek] https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/7
#
Loqi [tantek] #7 Can we improve h-entry backcompat to handle common WordPress hentry streams?
#
gRegorLove I was mainly replying to https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-04-29#t1556560969464400
#
[tantek] This is about adding *more* backcompat to the existing backcompat that is specified for mf2 parsers / vocabs
#
Loqi [chrisaldrich] In some sense, I was also asking for myself for something I'm building. I'd love to get away with only needing the cognitive load for mf2 and completely ignoring mf1, but are there awesome things out there that I'll feel remiss about it later?
#
[jgmac1106] Sorry of I said wrong thing gRegorLove meant figuring out how to handle non indieweb themes to get largest impact with least user... Yes see issue
#
[jgmac1106] I will install a couple top free themes this weekend and test them out with and without mf2 plugins.
#
[tantek] Rather than “non indieweb” better to name specific themes with even vaguely understood levels of usage & deployment
#
[tantek] Right, “top free themes” is a more productive framing