#dev 2019-05-09

2019-05-09 UTC
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@ChangelingMx ↩️ You can run http://micro.blog through it. I did that when I was having trouble with my microsub endpoint and wanted to know if it was worth fixing. I personally prefer Indiginous or http://alltogethernow.io. Only thing I can do right now is follow Twitter folks. (twitter.com/_/status/1126280065308930048)
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GWG !tell swentel Are you going to follow the iOS Indigenous shift or stay the course?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] GWG Indigenous for Android is staying on course. Swentel and I had a conversation before I went public lol
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[eddie] So with this transition it will also allow less confusion between platform and app names
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GWG [eddie]: Good to know.
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GWG [eddie]: No chance I can talk you into the things I talked swentel into, is there?
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aaronpk [eddie]: maybe consider calling it something other than Abode Suite because that definitely looks like Adobe Suite :-)
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[eddie] Lol yeah, that was pointed out. I’m gonna think through options haha
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[eddie] GWG: some of those things are definitely on the list. If there are any specific high priorities be sure to flag them for me. But I’d like to get most of the Micropub extensions into Chronicler
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[eddie] That’s one of the main reasons I wanted to separate things was so I have breathing room in the apps to add more features around posting/editing/etc
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Loqi Countdown set by cweiske on 2019-03-28 at 12:27pm CET
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Loqi cweiske gives Loqi a cookie
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aaronpk lol
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GWG [eddie]: I'll let you go at it for a bit.
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GWG Although location is big for me
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[Rose] I wonder if anyone has insight on video hosting, as in do you just throw video at your media endpoint and use that? Or is anyone using a video hosting service?
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[Rose] !tell [eddie] I would love to see shortcuts support in Chronicler 😉
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat You could just throw it at your endpoint. It depends on your requirements. If you need automated reencoding and the likes, you might be better off letting someone else handle it
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Zegnat I think jgmac1106 started uploading to the Internet Archive a bunch, which may be a solution if your licence is compatible with that
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[Rose] That's what I was wondering, as much as I'm not really a fan of YouTube and the like, I see the advantages in letting them do the video hosting.
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Zegnat I have put backups of streams (Twitch, Mixer) I have been on online through YouTube, I felt no inclination at all to try and handle that stuff myself.
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Zegnat Though I do keep a backup of the file of course, in case YouTube would start acting up
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[tantek] or acting down (time) as it were 😛
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[jgmac1106] so I am copying and pasting images from instagram using source code and accidentally tried to open this link, check out the warning: SECURITY WARNING: Please treat the URL above as you would your password and do not share it with anyone. See the Facebook Help Center for more information.
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[jgmac1106] ...but I am not logged on to instagram and this link is just available on anyone's page
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[jgmac1106] it is the facebookcross domain communication frame
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[tantek] weird
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[tantek] didn't see a link in your message [jgmac1106]
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GWG This fatwigoo problem is frustrating me
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[tantek] fatwigoo << [[Category:jargon]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Category:jargon]]" to the "See Also" section of /Fatwigoo https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60849&oldid=46944
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GWG I just learned that term
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GWG Styling inline SVG so that when it's pulled by a feed reader it doesn't end up gigantic when rendered
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GWG I keep looking for a good way to address it
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GWG The likely solution is to set a width property inside the svg and override it with CSS
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GWG But I was trying to read up on other solutions
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GWG Wondering if anyone here has thoughts
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GWG I still 'blame' kevinmarks for talking up SVG every time I was using icon fonts
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[Rose] What are the advantages in using SVGs in your case?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "advantages in using SVGs in your case" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "advantages in using SVGs in your case is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG Right now, I am using them and don't want to switch back
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GWG They do look better
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GWG I may go to a fallback in the feed only
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GWG But that doesn't solve h-feed
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Zegnat Any reason why you do not just use a width and height property, as on img elements?
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GWG Zegnat, I would have to modify the svg files themselves. I think I could find a tool to do that during my build process
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[Rose] The inline styling on the element wouldn't need building into the svg
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[Rose] That's the workaround I built into simple location (which will be overridden when it gets updated)
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Zegnat Is that something special with the way you inline them or something?
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GWG Once I find a solution that I like...
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Zegnat I thought you would have the <svg> (or other) tag in a template somewhere, to which you should be able to just add a width and height?
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GWG I have it in a file and I inline the file
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GWG Simple Location hadn't gotten that change yet
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GWG So I need an inline solution
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[Rose] return '<img class="icon-location" aria-label="' . __( 'Location: ', 'simple-location' ) . '" aria-hidden="true" src="' . $sprite . '" style="max-height: 1rem; max-width:1rem;" />';
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[Rose] That's what I did, just added the style element
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GWG It isn't an img, it is an svg
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GWG In all other uses but that one
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GWG So I matched that to use svg over img
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[Rose] Hmm, I would personally have gone the other way and just used inline styles on everything for simplicity 😆
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Zegnat SVGs without width and height attributes are the big fatwigoo cause :(
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GWG So, I need some sort of auto width adding tool for svg
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GWG I'm sure there is one
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GWG jkphl has svg sprite
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Zegnat Even if there isn’t, it is easy to make one
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Zegnat PHP has XML parsing built in, trivial to parse, add attributes, and save again
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GWG I want to run it each time I update the dependency
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Zegnat So might be an idea to write it in PHP, which you know is going to be available on systems that need to run the code?
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GWG Only developers would need to
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[Rose] Still, you know they'll have PHP
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GWG Either way, will look for any build tool and if not, write one
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GWG The other option is to wrap the svg in a container and size the container
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[Rose] That might be easier 😛
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GWG Or omit the icon in the feed
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GWG I'll keep experimenting
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[kevinmarks] are they inside html in the feed?
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[kevinmarks] you could just put height="1em" in the svg files you include and then they'll be OK as inline icons by default
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[Rose] Personally for inline elements I would go for rem, even though em is usual for media, in this case because they're in line with the text rem makes more sense to me.
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[kevinmarks] I thought em was 'the text height locally' and rem 'the default text height for the page'
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[Rose] I don't know the ins and outs of it all, just that nested em gets messy quickly.
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[kevinmarks] so if you inline them in a bigger heading you want em or they'll be smaller
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[kevinmarks] nested em is relative, yes, so it takes the local height and multiplies
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[kevinmarks] which is what you want for icons
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[kevinmarks] if you're using them in img you can always override height
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] given that warning did not want to share not my account
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[tantek] ah - I figured you could prune anything that looked like a big unique string
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Zegnat [kevinmarks]: I am guessing it is specifically not an img because it is nice to have them CSS targetable
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[kevinmarks] ah, right. that makes sense
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[kevinmarks] Tantek may have more subtle css answers, but if they are meant as inline icons putting height="1em" in the svg file itself should stop them becoming a fatwigoo problem. That works for sparkline type things too, though you don't want to do it to all svg files in case you have bigger ones as diagrams.
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[tantek] I'm not sure it's best practice to put explicit heights inline in SVG files. I think the use-case here is many embedders of a single SVG file, at different sizes.
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Zegnat I think the problem is that the SVG files come from “somewhere” and GWG needs them to then get size limited. And not have to do it manually every time he updated the icons
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GWG Zegnat, correct
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GWG I have a script that refreshes them from the source
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Zegnat Do you have a link to that script? Which repo can I look in?
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[kevinmarks] You can override the height on an svg element with css though; the question is what happens in a situation where the html is separated from the CSS in a feed or webmention or something.
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[eddie] !tell [Rose] Definitely. I'm a huge fan of Shortcuts! Any specific shortcuts support you would like to see in Chronicler?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] bummer, the tweet at the top of this thread has been deleted 😞 https://twitter.com/ThatMightBePaul/status/1117654798944407553
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@ThatMightBePaul @exkuchme Apparently there's a p. cool movement dedicated to this idea https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1117654798944407553)
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] you replied https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/04/15/that-is-the-best-description-of-homebrew to that tweet, but it wasn't archived until just now (when I archived it manually)
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] That is the best description of homebrew website clubs ever @ThatMightBePaul ! We have a about 10-12 active going. @excuhme's living room would make lucky 13. Most of us too lazy to get off our couches anyway and already attend virtual European Union...
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[eddie] Let's encrypt admin tax 😞
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[eddie] Anyone else delay switching their Let's Encrypt from the old renewal method to the new http-01 one?
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[Rose] I have a script doing it on the command line, the one they recommended, I didn't know I needed to do anything?
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Zegnat Oh, uuh, I guess maybe I will need to change something then. I ran with aaronpk’s tutorial previously
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Zegnat I’d like to look into doing wildcard anyway, which I think requires a different method
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aaronpk I haven't heard about the new method yet
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[Rose] Eddie do you have a link to the new method stuff?
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aaronpk I did finally set up a wildcard cert for indieweb.org, it ends up working even tho Linode has a 15 minute delay on dns updates
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[eddie] Yeah, let me grab the link about it
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[Rose] Certbot does all the work for me, so I guess I would need to update certbot unless it does it itself?
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[eddie] Mine was automated too, but maybe because I had an older bot, it was using an older authentication method
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[eddie] that they have no depreciated
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[eddie] The ACME TLS-SNI-01 validation method was removed in March. https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/how-to-stop-using-tls-sni-01-with-certbot/83210
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[Rose] does the lazy thing and sends it to her personal Sysadmin
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[eddie] lol!
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Zegnat Ah, I don’t think I use TLS-SNI
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[Rose] Well, I'll try myself, but I needed to install something on my server yesterday too for Monica PRM but it didn't work
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[Rose] In good news I can tell you I shouldn't need to update my certbot though 😆
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[eddie] Zegnat Interesting. I don't really know the difference except for some reason the first tutorial I used had me do it that way
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[eddie] 😆
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[eddie] 👏
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[Rose] I'm not incapable of these things, just not experienced with them, running a command to get the version is something I am happy to do 😛
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[eddie] Yeah my linux skills are mostly following tutorials till things work right
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[Rose] Same, but I am getting better. I've even written bash scripts!
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Zegnat See challenge types here: https://letsencrypt.org/docs/challenge-types/
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Zegnat I use HTTP-01 per https://aaronparecki.com/2015/12/07/8/letsencrypt
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Setting up HTTPS with Letsencrypt.org
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Zegnat So no admin tax for me ... yet ;)
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Zegnat Sadly HTTP-01 does not let me get wildcards, so I want to change at some point.
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jeremycherfas Tearing my hair out over what seems like it ought to be a simple PHP problem.
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[Rose] What is it?
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Loqi It was a dark and stormy night https://indieweb.org/It
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jeremycherfas This, below, works
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jeremycherfas Cd /Applications/MAMP/htdocs/listens
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jeremycherfas Php script.php
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jeremycherfas But ...
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jeremycherfas Php /Applications/MAMP/htdocs/listens/script.php gives an error "Failed to open $newfile"
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aaronpk Oh I am using HTTP-01 and didn't even know it :-)
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[Rose] Does anything show up in the MAMP error logs?
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: from the command line it is actually important in what directory you are when you run a script
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Zegnat That directory is the working directory, and may be important for things like file paths
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[Rose] `cd /Applications/MAMP/htdocs/listens; php script.php` will work I suspect
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[Rose] *untested
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Zegnat The usual fix, if you need paths relative to script.php (no matter from where you call it) is to start all paths inside script.php with __DIR__
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Zegnat __DIR__ is a magic constant (https://www.php.net/manual/en/language.constants.predefined.php) containing the path to the current script file, rather than to the current directory you are in with the command line
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Zegnat Bit of an info dump for you there, so please lay down any questions for more specific answers!
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Zegnat has been reading documentation and emails all day and is eager to look at any code
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[Rose] sends Zegnat a small mess of JS, JQuery, HTML and PHP as a present
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jeremycherfas This is without any server. MAMP is not running. I am calling it direct from the command line.
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[Rose] What Zegnat said is most important
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[Rose] (Though more detailed error messages will still be somewhere)
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jeremycherfas OK. I had been hoping to have a simple one-line script that would do the needful, manually. I don't want a cron job. Just getting tired of typing it out. So, TextExpander to the rescue, eh [Rose]?
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Zegnat Can you put your little script in a gist, jeremycherfas?
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jeremycherfas It is literally not worth it. The script is not the problem. It is running it from the terminal that is the problem.
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Zegnat Yes, but that can probably be fixed with a single __DIR__ addition ;)
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jeremycherfas UNLESS ... The file it cannot actually open is one called by the script!
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jeremycherfas Now I understand what you'\ve been saying. Maybe.
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jeremycherfas Creating the gist now.
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Zegnat Yes, so $newfile is likely accessible from the path when you are in the right directory in the terminal. But not from other terminals.
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Zegnat *from other directories
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Zegnat So instead you have to make sure that the $newfile path is relative to script.php, by using __DIR__. (__DIR__ is always the directory script.php is in)
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jeremycherfas https://gist.github.com/jeremycherfas/696b54f73e9637e4fbe42b1f56c37e86
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jeremycherfas I am using __DIR__ to set the files I am writing T
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jeremycherfas O, but not for the file I am reading FROM, as that is in the same directory. Line 23
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Zegnat yep!
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Zegnat should be __DIR__ . '/shiny.txt' on line 23
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Zegnat (assuming shiny.txt is in the same folder as the PHP script)
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jeremycherfas Let me try that.
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jeremycherfas Zegnat++[Rose]++
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Loqi Zegnat has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (146 in all channels)
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[tantek] need a space between for Loqi to see those
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jeremycherfas In general, then, I peresume it never hurts to put __DIR__ in front of any filename?
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jeremycherfas [Rose]++
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Loqi [Rose] has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (34 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas (if it is in the same directory as the script)
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Zegnat jeremycherfas, no harm, no.
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jeremycherfas Cool.
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[Rose] Glad it's working!
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jeremycherfas One of the things I would really hope to have time for in Utrecht is to learn more about PHP error handling. Not IndieWeb specific, but very useful to me.
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jeremycherfas This exercise is also showing me why I should use variable for filenames instead of hard coding them. :(
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[jgmac1106] This seems interesting https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/developer-creates-a-two-way-chat-using-only-css-and-html/
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[manton] [tantek] Copying the Micro.blog icon is definitely okay! Thanks for linking to it. There's also a help page here with some info about using the SVG version, but whatever you want to use is totally fine: https://help.micro.blog/2018/resources/
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Loqi [manton]: [tantek] left you a message 16 hours, 55 minutes ago: I found the SVG mini icon for micro.blog here https://help.micro.blog/2017/mac-version/, and copy/pasted the inline SVG to use on my home page for linking to my micro.blog profile. Hoping that bit of view source, copy, paste is ok! 😂
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aaronpk sknebel: i need to look at autoauth again in the context of some recent developments in the oauth community
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[tantek] micro.blog << Info about using micro.blog SVG icon: https://help.micro.blog/2018/resources/
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Loqi ok, I added "Info about using micro.blog SVG icon: https://help.micro.blog/2018/resources/" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Micro.blog https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60863&oldid=57383
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sknebel aaronpk: oh? details?
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aaronpk take this with a grain of salt right now, but https://oauth.xyz
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[Rose] I clicked on the draft specification and immediately got dizzy
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aaronpk it's a bit of a mouthful right now
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aaronpk but has some good ideas
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[Rose] That page sounds intriguing
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[Rose] Though I'm pretty much lacking in Auth knowledge, to the point where I would rather leave the working on it to others instead of accidentally building some massive security holes in 😕
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aaronpk yep haha
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[Rose] (Though at least I know I'm lacking in knowledge, and what impact that might have!)
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sknebel interesting. does it look like people are interested in that to the point that it might become a thing?
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aaronpk Quite possibly, but also OAuth 2 isn't going anywhere any time soon either, so we're talking about this on a time scale of 10 years out
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aaronpk In October Justin was talking about a version of this that was a minor addition to OAuth 2, and I built a prototype of it real quick
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aaronpk I'm wondering if there's anything in here that would make things significantly easier for IndieAuth
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sknebel the dynamic stuff could be kind of neat for more complex policies
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sknebel maybe
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sknebel e.g. one side saying "please hold, a human needs to be involved"
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aaronpk There's a whole discussion around more complex transaction based stuff to replace scopes. Think like you want to allow a specific payment and then not let that app have any more access
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sknebel (e.g. "my feedreader can ask for read scopes, but for each domain, the first time it's accessed my authorization endpoint should require a flow involving me"
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sknebel otherwise, not sure
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aaronpk one thing I like about this is it builds in sidestepping client preregistration which is something we had to make explicit in IndieAuth
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sknebel (if it only includes known exchange/auth methods ours might be missing anyways, not sure if any of the included can replace things we had to add)
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[eddie] from IndieWeb channel talking about AutoAuth, I think it doesn't really overlap with the primary functions
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[eddie] so I don't think it would cause any issues introducing it into the Wordpress plugin.
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sknebel Right. And getting autoauth enabled private posts into WP would be a big and kinda risky thing
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sknebel But supporting the authorization endpoint bits would not be
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[eddie] Yeah, correct
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[eddie] The actual post reading is the riskier part
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sknebel A token endpoint supporting it can potentially be standalone, since for everything that's not the homepage it can be different from the main one a user uses
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snarfed re private posts, when we launched bridgy backfeed, it seemed to add a lot of positive pressure on implementors. i'd be happy to add private posts if we think that pressure would help
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aaronpk ooo
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snarfed i don't know that many/any of us have protected twitter accounts, though, so it probably wouldn't have much volume in our community
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aaronpk oops where'd he go
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aaronpk snarfed i was hoping bridgy would be able to send me private backfeed from private twitter accounts
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aaronpk even tho mine is public
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[eddie] That's a good usecase
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aaronpk (Of course my site would need to know the response is private and not show it in the comments)
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snarfed aaronpk: huh. interesting idea. i don't know how the twitter API handles that. ie if you follow a private twitter acct, can i read its tweets w/the twitter API with token for you?
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snarfed looking
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aaronpk I would assume so
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snarfed haven't found anything in the docs yet
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snarfed i can try
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snarfed yup, works
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snarfed ...but sheesh, not sure i'd even know where to begin
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aaronpk heh
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sknebel Effectivly bridgy as a sender of private webmentions, interesting
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sknebel Guess private GitHub repos too
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snarfed and flickr...accounts? photos?
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snarfed doesn't use flickr
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snarfed heh, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/11
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Loqi [snarfed] #11 detect and handle non-public posts and responses
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snarfed i'd worry that some receiving sites would mishandle private data and bridgy would get blamed though
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aaronpk yeah that's definitely a trick
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aaronpk at least bridgy wouldn't be making the proxy URLs public tho
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snarfed true
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aaronpk but we definitely need some solid way for a receiver to know a post is private to make it really easy for them to not share it publicly accidentally
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[tantek] Needs a tight (like conservative, lots of MUSTS) spec for how to handle the information, a very deliberate Security & Privacy concerns section, and test cases that attempt to trick / exploit the receiver into revealing private information
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aaronpk +1
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GWG Re WordPress and autoauth...Does this mean that I should bump that project up on my list
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GWG Hoped, by the way, someone would have advice to magically solve my svg problem by the time I got to lunch
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GWG I need to solve the auth part though
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aaronpk Maybe autoauth will be my hack day project this weekend
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GWG aaronpk, document please
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GWG I am interested
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GWG Missed answering Zegnat. All of them.
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GWG Trying to search for inline svg styling options without css
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KartikPrabhu https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/SVG/Element/style
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KartikPrabhu you can put the CSS in the SVG
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GWG Yes, but I am looking for an automated way to do that
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GWG I get my icons from a set and they add new ones all the time, as well as fix old ones
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GWG I took out the css so I can play with solutions before putting it back
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