#dev 2019-05-10

2019-05-10 UTC
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@pierremartin J’aurai quelques questions liées à l’IndieWeb, notamment autour de la mise en place d’un provider IndieAuth pour gérer l’authentification à travers divers systèmes utilisés par une association. C’est où le meilleur endroit pour demander ? (ou qui) (twitter.com/_/status/1126716003289669634)
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Ruxton gwg SVG discussion - is the only issue here that SVG's come from external source and need a width/height set before including them into project?
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Ruxton GWG: try rsvg-convert (in librsvg) across the files - https://github.com/numixproject/numix-tools/blob/master/numix-tools/svgscale -- i've used things like this in the past to generate sprite sheets+css for SVG+png/png2x fallback for web and create android/ios icons at the same time
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Zegnat AutoAuth means it becomes slightly harder for receivers of e.g. bridgy private posts to accidentally publish them. Because they will need to support autoauth and authorise to bridgy before the posts can even be fetched. Meaning existing webmention receivers cannot accidentally start to also publish private posts
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GWG !tell Ruxton If that is the best way to address the icon size going out of control when loaded without the style sheet in a feed reader
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Ruxton nods
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Loqi Ruxton: GWG left you a message 1 minute ago: If that is the best way to address the icon size going out of control when loaded without the style sheet in a feed reader
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GWG So, looking at inline styling as well
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GWG There's a surprising lack of discussion about this despite it having a name
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Zegnat People care surprisingly little for the non-css cases. Lots of sites get real weird without styling applied. (And this will of course apply to both fringe browsers *and* feed readers.)
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Ruxton I'm not sure they SHOULD display in the feed. In whch case I'd do them as backgrounds in the style and they wouldnt show, but that's a whole nother discussion
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Ruxton GWG: lack of discussion is because until 5? years ago SVG in browser was a nightmare
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Ruxton maybe a bit longer than 5
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GWG Ruxton, I can hide them in RSS feeds, but not h-feeds
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GWG I am playing around with solutions
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GWG I just realized why this styling won't work. I need to redo the weather display. Maybe I will add.d
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GWG add data elements for my measurements
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GWG Other than current conditions and temperature, what makes sense to display for weather?
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[Rose] Wind speed
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[tantek] UV levels, humidity %, precipitation % chance
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GWG I have it stored along with direction, cloudiness, pressure, humidity, etc
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[Rose] I'd love to turn on all of those
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GWG Just don't know what it would look like
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GWG I am in the display code trying to improve the css as part of the icon issue
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GWG I realized that I didn't finish adding part of the display generation arguments. So you can't customize
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[Rose] I can do a sketch at my gate if that might help
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GWG Happy to accept suggestions.
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GWG I want to add a short and full display option
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[kevinmarks] Dark Sky and https://www.metoffice.gov.uk are both worth a look for UI
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[tantek] what is weather
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Loqi Weather is the state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc https://indieweb.org/weather
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[tantek] weather << Good UI examples: Dark Sky, https://www.metoffice.gov.uk
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Loqi ok, I added "Good UI examples: Dark Sky, https://www.metoffice.gov.uk" to a new "See Also" section of /weather https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60947&oldid=55633
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@aaronpk ↩️ @TechLifeWeb Could be a number of things, but here's what we've seen before: https://indieweb.org/Wordpress_IndieAuth_Plugin#Troubleshooting (twitter.com/_/status/1126797184639295488)
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jeremycherfas GWG I'm not sure pricipation chance % is worth recording unless you go back and calculate some sort of prediction accuracy.
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GWG I didn't record it
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GWG It is accumulation
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GWG [Rose]: Any sketch inspiration?
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[Rose] I have a screenshot from the inflight information. Unfortunately I have no idea what it would look like in its current form on my site, because it breaks my sidebar.
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GWG That's my problem
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[Rose] I need to investigate that later. I have a few sketches, but I'm on a 150kb/s connection right now.
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GWG I need to have a few different versions for people's different themes
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GWG And people can always customize
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[Rose] In my case, the widget ticket seems to go over most of the screen
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[Rose] *title
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sknebel [Rose]: btw, did you get anywhere with hacking on bridgy, or did you end up doing something ele?
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[Rose] I started, got a bit lost with 3 repos but it's on my project list again this weekend.
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sknebel I've hacked on bridgy a bit in the past, so feel free to ping me about it
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[Rose] Thanks!
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@sebastiangreger Sendmention & Commention: a pair of #Indieweb webmention plugins for @getkirby - personal, opinionated and VERY beta https://sebastiangreger.net/2019/05/sendmention-commention-webmentions-for-kirby-3/ (twitter.com/_/status/1126838073004834816)
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sknebel (Commention somehow makes me think "Commotion" :D)
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sknebel sgreger++
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Loqi sgreger has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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kisik21 Good morning IndieWeb! Let's play a game! What do you think this Python code snippet does? Is it weird-looking enough for you?
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kisik21 target_post["properties"]["comment"].index(list(filter(lambda i: target in i["properties"]["url"], target_post["properties"]["comment"]))[0])
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kisik21 I totally need to comment the heck out of it if someone here won't understand here
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kisik21 s/here$/it/
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KartikPrabhu seems to be getting the url of comments to some post. I usually stick to list comprehension. I dont understand lambda expressions very much
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snarfed KartikPrabhu++ agreed! kisik21: list comprehensions are generally a lot more readable
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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snarfed eg your inner expression would become [t for t in target_post["properties"]["comment"] if t in i["properties"]["url"]]
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snarfed i often write code like what you posted at first, then if it's too big or awkward, i pull some of it out into variable(s) or simple loop(s) for readability. comments are good, but readable code is better.
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snarfed [Rose]++ good luck! definitely start with just oauth-dropins and ignore the other two
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Loqi [Rose] has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (36 in all channels)
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[Rose] Thanks! I'll work on it
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aaronpk i wonder if i can bug adactio to fix his HTTP Accept header handling this weekend
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kisik21 KartikPrabhu: snarfed: Actually that stuff is: Find a post with certain URL in the comments of h-entry and get its number in the array so I can update it. This snippet will become a part of Salmention support in the new rewrite of pyindieblog
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kisik21 OH WAIT
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kisik21 I made a mistake in the code
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kisik21 it should be `source in i["properties"]["url"]` not `target`
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kisik21 So that's how it should work: `target_post["properties"]["comment"][target_post["properties"]["comment"].index(list(filter(lambda i: source in i["properties"]["url"], target_post["properties"]["comment"]))[0])] = mf2py.parse(source)["items"][0]` and then dump the post back in the DB/filesystem/whatever I'll end up using as persistent storage
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kisik21 basically get a comment number by its url, then rewrite the comment including the updated information
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kisik21 I included a note in my org-mode file right next to this snippet so I won't forget what does it do
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sknebel I'd split that up in multiple lines, maybe even local functions for sure. Also, not sure what role that plays exactly, but salmentions need checks if data actually changed, and you can't entirely rely on the the main post on a page being the first mf2 item on the page
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GWG aaronpk, what is wrong with his headers?
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aaronpk his site returns http 406 when i try to fetch it
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GWG Oh
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GWG Another one
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GWG I am still trying to figure out weather markup
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GWG I display in Fahrenheit. I wonder if that is an issue.
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GWG Do I need p-unit?
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GWG Zegnat, what do you do... your site isn't loading for me to check
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sknebel GWG: copy-paste from his site: <span class="p-height h-measure"><data class="dt-measured" value="2015-07"><span class="p-num">1.84</span>&nbsp;<abbr title="metres"><span class="p-unit">m</span></abbr></data></span>
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GWG Interesting
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GWG I guess I should consider data for temperature
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sebsel which, if I recall correctly, is taken from aaronpk's site
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sebsel as in: I remember Zegnat saying "oh if Aaron does it...!"
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GWG I always say that
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sebsel https://aaronparecki.com/rides <- these have p-unit too
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GWG He is usually ahead of all us
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Zegnat It is taken from the microformats wiki
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GWG I just figured it was time to fix my markup
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GWG I spent time trying to style a class that wasn't there
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Zegnat I thought it was from there, at least. Will need to check.
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GWG Looking at wrong function instead of code
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Zegnat I thought I put HTML comments everywhere in my HTML for experimental properties taken from mf wiki, but apparently not for measurement :/
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GWG So I want to add some styling classes, started noticing that I didn't mark up the units
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GWG I am also trying to make it look nicer
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GWG [Rose] also mentioned she would, like me, appreciate additional weather data that I store but couldn't figure out how to display
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GWG I have a lot of things like that
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GWG I need a Designer
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Zegnat GWG, for the markup ideas: http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-brainstorming
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[Rose] https://rosemaryorchard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/note-10-may-2019-1.jpg
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[Rose] Design ideas, dodgy handwriting and frames optional
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[jgmac1106] Graphic only with more data on toggle
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GWG I don't think I have uv
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GWG I will look into my APIs
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GWG Nice layout though
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@mauricehh ↩️ Cool thing! I am currently working on a comment system and wanted to add webmentions to that, too (sometimes in the future) maybe I can leave away that part, then. How do you handle spam? I don't have a good solution for that yet. (twitter.com/_/status/1126907317834932225)
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[jgarber] aaronpk I noticed a thing recently with adactio.com and tantek.com. Their servers are returning `Upgrade: h2` and `Connection: Upgrade` response headers. This was causing an issue with an HTTP library I was using that hadn’t updated to handle this behavior.
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[jgarber] Maybe that’s related to what you’re observing?
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aaronpk no i've talked with adactio about this before. he has some parsing of the http accept header, but it's doing exact match instead of letting me request things at different priority
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[jgarber] Ahh, okay. Got it!
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aaronpk so i say i accept a bunch of different formats, one of which is HTML, but HTML is not the first in the list so his site rejects it
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snarfed conneg--
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Loqi conneg has -4 karma over the last year
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[jgarber] Gotcha. Using the q-factor weighting bits in the request?
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Zegnat [jgarber]: the upgrade shouldn’t really give you an issue, surely? Just means you MAY upgrade to using http/2
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Zegnat That q thing is annoying though, multiple lines of selfauth only exist to support that
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[jgarber] Zegnat The bug in the particular library: https://github.com/httprb/http/issues/514
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Loqi [cognita] #514 Empty string instead of page content
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/master/lib/XRay/Fetcher.php#L74
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[jgarber] Goodness that’s a lotta kinda of JSON. 😂
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aaronpk i had to prioritize activity+json over html because otherwise mastodon returns HTML but their json is usually more accurate
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[jgarber] * kinds of JSON
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snarfed unpopular opinion: i naively suspect conneg has been a net negative for web development at large for decades now. nice idea in theory, but more painful than useful in practice. if each URL only served a single content type (with maybe narrow support for compression etc), our lives would be easier overall.
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[jgarber] What is conneg?
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Loqi conneg is short for HTTP Content Negotiation, a method by which a browser or other web client can request content of various types from a web server, and depending on what is requested, and what the server supports, it tries to provide the best it can https://indieweb.org/conneg
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[jgarber] Should’ve known there’d be a page.
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aaronpk considering literally most of the web doesn't use conneg i think that's probably an accurate statement
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snarfed so easy to change file extension, add query params, use rel-alternate, etc for a different content type if necessary
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snarfed i literally have rhiaro's domain hard-coded into granary and bridgy due to this
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[jgarber] I wouldn’t know anything about that… << glares at his own website >>
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Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "I wouldn’t know anything about that…" or similar
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aaronpk haha
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Zegnat I go back and forth on it. I kinda like having multiple variants of the same resource at the same resource address. But in practice it is almost never actually practical
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[jgarber] Maybe the site’s next iteration will be _super orthodox_…
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aaronpk Zegnat: i think that's exactly the problem. it has a nice appeal *in theory*
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Zegnat Also, most sites do not seem to set the Vary header, so how would you even find out conneg can be used?
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aaronpk hardcoding :)
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sknebel well, the theory is that you don't need to find out: you ask for everything you understand and get the best match
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snarfed it's worse than not practical, it's actively surprising and harmful and error prone
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snarfed and notoriously difficult to handle correctly, as we're seeing here
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snarfed ok i'll stop ranting now :P
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sknebel it's also used rarely enough that libraries/frameworks don't support it well
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Zegnat That’s the real bad one. It isn’t really super hard: given you have read enough about the HTTP spec to know what is expected.
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aaronpk heh
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Zegnat But if your framework developers haven’t read it, and you haven’t read it, and both of those things are likely to be true … you get issues
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snarfed i submit as evidence this conversation ^ and tons of others in previous chat as evidence that in practice it is hard to implement
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sknebel it's more expensive, but I also feel like "one type url and include rel-alternate Link headers if you want to point to other variants" would probably be more reliable
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snarfed both when you don't know it and it surprises you, *and* when you know it and you're trying to get fiddly q details right
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aaronpk also interesting that i'm not even using q values in here and it's still failing
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aaronpk IIRC the q value isn't required? it means i accept all format equally?
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sknebel (well, no, I forgot that you can't expect stuff to understand the concept of "multiple Link: headers" either, but that's one where I firmly lay the blame at the feet of the implementer who missed that
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snarfed literal comment in the current bridgy code: "Only send Accept header to rhiaro.co.uk right now because it needs it, but Known breaks on it."
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/util.py#L51-L57
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[jgarber] aaronpk Looking at https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Accept
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[jgarber] q value is definitely optional based on the examples and can (apparently) even be mixed in the list of values:
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[jgarber] ```// Multiple types, weighted with the quality value syntax:
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[jgarber] Accept: text/html, application/xhtml+xml, application/xml;q=0.9, image/webp, */*;q=0.8```
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aaronpk it's not even clear if it's required from those docs
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sknebel yes, q is optional
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[jgarber] Maybe there’s something in the spec… https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-5.3.2
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[jgarber] …which isn’t loading for me at the moment. 🙃
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sknebel Each media-range MAY be followed by one or more accept-params, beginning with the "q" parameter for indicating a relative quality factor.
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aaronpk and this conversation continues to demonstrate this is hard to understand and implement
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sknebel it's funny how that's repeated despite nobody arguing against it :D
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aaronpk haha
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snarfed that's how much we all (ok almost all) hate it
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Zegnat I don’t actually hate it, but if there is any part of it that I hate, it is the fact that q is optional. It means you on the server end have to be tie-breaker.
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Zegnat And because the UA end doesn’t always get it right, you may still be sending the wrong data :(
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Zegnat I have actually had to swap the tie-breaker in selfauth (https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth/blob/master/index.php#L193-L206) a number of times
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Zegnat (Note that selfauth is CC0, and if anyone wants a short q-value parsing function you can rip it right out and I will not be mad)
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Zegnat points all handwavey at the regexes contained in there and mumbles something about how it just works
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doubleloop I made a sketch for wrapping my head round all the different bits of my site, any notes on it appreciated! https://doubleloop.net/2019/05/10/5392/
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Loqi [Neil Mather] A first attempt at a sketch of what’s going on with my Indieweb setup.
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Zegnat doubleloop: I’d be super interested in reading how you feel all those separate fiddly bits are performing with your site at its core. Because you use WordPress, and that is a huge common denominator to target.
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[schmarty] ooh, what's emupub?
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doubleloop [schmarty]: Oh heh, that's what I called the micropub layer for spacemacs
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doubleloop https://github.com/ngm/micropub-layer
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doubleloop Zegnat: hmm good question
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doubleloop I'd say the micropub/webmention endpoints all works pretty smoothly thanks to the plugins
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doubleloop But things display in a weird way on my site, or something I post displays weirdly elsewhere - so perhaps more a problem with the microformats
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doubleloop *sometimes they display in a weird way
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doubleloop Not all the time
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doubleloop I'd prefer not to have all my data going into Wordpress' database, which is a bit of a blackbox to me
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doubleloop I'd probably feel more comfortable having the content in flat files in some version control somewhere
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doubleloop I'd like to liberate the data some day. It would be cool if there was a service that could read through your feed, and pull out the MF2 for each post and put it into canonical json.
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doubleloop Like a generic Indieweb backup service
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Zegnat Oh, interesting idea
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kisik21 wait did someone here say Emacs?!!
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snarfed emacs++
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Loqi emacs has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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kisik21 emacs++
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Loqi emacs has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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kisik21 I use Emacs
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kisik21 and thought of Emacs-based Micropub client
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kisik21 but never implemented it because my elisp knowledge is... well... lacking
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kisik21 doubleloop: if only your implementation was capable of posting exported Org-mode files :3
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kisik21 I'd post my drafts for my new blog engine
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kisik21 oh wait
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kisik21 my blog is offline
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kisik21 I have nowhere to post!
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doubleloop kisik21: Check out arcology
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kisik21 Arcology, a portmanteau of "architecture" and "ecology", is a field of creating architectural design principles for very densely populated, ecologically low-impact human habitats.
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doubleloop http://doc.rix.si/projects/arcology.html
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kisik21 lol
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doubleloop Although that other definition does sound interesting :D
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kisik21 I can't access the source T__T
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