#dev 2019-05-23

2019-05-23 UTC
[jjdelc], snarfed, gRegorLove_, miklb, gRegorLove, [tantek], [frank], [jeremycherfas], [Rose], [tonz], [calumryan] and GWG joined the channel
#
[calumryan] Considering adding a dark theme option at some point although I’m part way there with my post archives
jeremych_ joined the channel
#
[calumryan] Anyone else had differences in how CSS variables load since Firefox 67 update?
#
petermolnar [calumryan]: for theme switching https://gist.github.com/petermolnar/d7ccaffadb92bf6c3d3615ed92832669
#
petermolnar I don't use css variables
[Rose], [tonz], [calumryan], [grantcodes] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
GWG Rethinking my first Indieweb project. Facepiles
#
[jgmac1106] Anyone else playing with Fenix on Android?
#
GWG I am not, but that's because I didn't bother to sign up
#
[jgmac1106] I like the UI of url barvat bottom and the one button push to save to collections.. Just thinking a Micropub bookmark extension be cool..
#
[jgmac1106] Check it out. Need beta testers... The Google Group too noisy...
#
GWG I may when I get a chance
#
GWG Also trying to figure out caching websub, and polling for Microsub still
eli_oat joined the channel
#
Zegnat What is Fenix?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Fenix" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Fenix is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[eddie] joined the channel
#
GWG Fenix is the experimental beta of Firefox for Android
#
Loqi ok
#
Zegnat Ah, OK, any reason why I would want to play with that specifically? Re micropub bookmark extension?
#
Zegnat [jgmac1106]: have you tried if omnibear works on Firefox on Android?
#
[jgmac1106] no I haven't zegnat, mainly bc it is a really good bookmark and collection UI
#
[jgmac1106] interesting take on an age old practice of bookmarking...if it hooked into Omnibear be neat, haven't tried any extensions with Fenix yet...good idea
[keithjgrant] joined the channel
#
[keithjgrant] Omnibear works pretty well on FF Android, considering I didn’t dev/test for that specifically
[calumryan] joined the channel
#
[calumryan] Remy live coding his setup of Webmentions https://www.twitch.tv/videos/428257110
#
Zegnat That’s cool! Might even be main channel worthy :D
snarfed joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106] @kiethjgrant I will test. Zegnat FF for Android no longer being developed. Will get some security patches but that is it. Fenix (isn't 100% the final branding will replace)
#
Zegnat Oh, no more updates? That’s news to me
[grantcodes] joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] Yeah, not sure on that. Pretty sure fenix is just the beta that will become the next firefox build
#
[grantcodes] Think they are doing the same thing as they did with "quantum", giving it a cool name for a bit more hype 😛
#
aaronpk Is Fenix a word or just a "clever" misspelling of phoenix?
#
Zegnat Firefox is called Fennec on FDroid anyway, so I am used to different names for the same thing
[tonz] joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas Fennec foxes are delightful little foxes of the desert, with oversized ears that act as radiators to help them keep cool.
#
aaronpk wow this looks cool https://github.com/sponsors
KartikPrabhu and [tonz] joined the channel
#
jeremycherfas I believe I have solved the weirdness on my front page regarding h-card discovery. At least it looks right in https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://www.jeremycherfas.net/
#
Loqi Jeremy Cherfas
[grantcodes] joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] aaronpk: I filled out a form already, let's see what happens...
#
[grantcodes] I wonder how they will prevent free money from the matched funding 😄
eli_oat joined the channel
#
GWG So, no one has implemented websub in an easy to install package?
#
aaronpk what do you mean?
#
aaronpk there's a wordpress plugin i thought
#
GWG https://github.com/pubsubhubbub/wordpress-pubsubhubbub
#
Loqi [pubsubhubbub] wordpress-pubsubhubbub: WebSub/PubSubHubbub for WordPress
#
GWG It's a client
#
GWG Not a hub
#
aaronpk weird i could have sworn it was a hub
#
GWG aaronpk, either way, pfefferle ripped out the relevant code. He's going to put it back
#
GWG I was thinking about running something externally for Yarns
#
GWG But there doesn't seem to be anything clearly installable
#
GWG Maybe I should try Watchtower. Isn't quite websub but same idea
#
aaronpk now i'm confused
#
aaronpk what does this have to do with yarns?
#
GWG Yarns is constantly polling sites for new content
#
GWG Trying to reduce load
#
aaronpk ah
#
aaronpk websub technically only helps you if the site you're subscribing to supports websub
#
aaronpk watchtower and superfeedr are basically APIs that let you pretend every website supports websub
#
GWG But if every site supports websub through the wordpress plugin...then it would get many of them
#
GWG I was hoping to help jackjamieson get to a early release for Summit
#
GWG So, one of the things is that some of the Functionality is slow.
#
GWG The code I wrote to determine if a page is an h-feed for one
#
aaronpk now i'm double confused
#
GWG Yes?
#
aaronpk if you're subscribing to a site that supports websub, you don't need to build a hub
#
GWG Yes
#
GWG I am burning the candle at both ends
#
GWG To cover supporting and non supporting sites
#
aaronpk the easy way to offload all the polling work is to use the superfeedr API and have it watch the site for changes instead of having your wordpress poll sites
#
GWG aaronpk, I thought they charged for that
#
aaronpk i believe they do yes
#
GWG A lot more than most people can justify
#
aaronpk $1 for 500 subscriptions
#
aaronpk wait, $1 for 10
#
aaronpk http://superfeedr.com/subscriber
#
GWG Yes, that means a lot for obsessive readers
#
aaronpk that's why i wrote watchtower
#
GWG Yes
#
GWG May try it
#
aaronpk but there are still some bugs with it and it also is not something you can install on shared hosting
#
GWG In the meantime, can I assume, different subject, that if someone marked up rel=feed on HTML documents that I don't have to try to find an h-feed
#
GWG aaronpk, polling will be for basic users. Advanced users can handle installing code
#
GWG The code that figures out h-feeds on pages takes a lot of time because it is trying to find h-feeds that are not top level items.
#
GWG Trying to optimize
#
GWG And implied feeds
#
GWG And whatever you call tantek's uniqueness
#
aaronpk difficult
#
sknebel data on what parts of the algorithms are especially expensive would be interesting
#
sknebel e.g. I'd assume that compared to mf2 parsing all post-processing of the mf2 data that doesn't require further network requests is cheap
#
sknebel - but maybe full mf2 parsing can be avoided in some cases
[chrisaldrich], [eddie], snarfed, gxt, wolfbane, leg and [tantek] joined the channel
#
wolfbane hello everyone
#
wolfbane is this a good IRC channel for web developers?
#
snarfed wolfbane: indieweb specifically, yes! not web dev in general though
#
wolfbane oh ok
#
wolfbane anyone know of a good web hosting company?
#
gRegorLove what is hosting?
#
Loqi Web hosting can be the primary regular cost in maintaining an IndieWeb site; this page lists several options from free on up depending on your publishing needs, like a static, shared, private, or dedicated server https://indieweb.org/hosting
#
gRegorLove Some ideas on that page from the indieweb community's experience ^
chrisaldrich, [chrisaldrich], [tonz] and [jackjamieson] joined the channel
#
sknebel sebsel: neo4j?
#
sebsel sknebel: neo4j.
#
sknebel out of curiosity, have you looked at GraphQL at all?
#
sebsel GraphQL and Neo4j (and it's query language Cypher) are unrelated.
#
sknebel I know
#
sknebel is it helpful for expressing your kinds of queries?
#
sebsel I did look into GraphQL, yes.
#
sknebel GraphQL tooling for all kinds of things exist, so that might be easier for some
#
sknebel although I guess as long as "VPS" is the requirement, it doesn't matter that much
#
sebsel well, despite the name, GraphQL does not really provide a graph database.
#
sebsel so the query syntax might be different, but it's not giving me a graph database to do all the hard work for me.
#
sebsel And the part I'm rethinking is: what hard work is there to do?
#
sebsel And could that be done in, say, MySQL?
#
snarfed it's not a database at all, to be fair :P
#
sebsel GraphQL? No, not a DB at all :P
#
sknebel that was kinda the background of my question: if(!) graphQL is useful to express the kind of query, and if(!) there's useful tooling to use graphql with e.g. MySQL, is that a route?
#
sknebel you're typically better informed than me when it comes to fancy new webtech :D
#
sebsel hm, it's just solving a different problem, I think
#
sknebel ok
#
sebsel in Neo4j, I saw a way to surface connections between posts
#
sebsel in GraphQL, you can request data in an organized way
#
sebsel so it's algoritm vs presentation
#
sknebel I think I get what you mean
#
sknebel I'm also not sure how a "proper" graphDB compares with doing it through SQL at different problem sizes
#
sebsel yea, basicly my thinking now is: the GraphDB really shines when talking about figuring out long paths.
#
sknebel (I remember Neo4j being of the "I'll eat all your RAM, and if that's gone lets hope your patterns work out" family too. did some benchmarking around it in uni a few years back)
#
sebsel the "give me posts liked by people I follow" is a very easy query for SQL too
#
sknebel yes, agreed
#
sknebel and a degree deeper should also be ok
#
Zegnat If you really want to continue the whole surfacing of data through a database, maybe ping Djoerd from IRC Utrecht and see if he has any tips on recommended reading?
#
sebsel yes and if done with care, I think one could dig even one degree after that? And my question is: do I need more than that to give value already?
#
sknebel probably not?
#
sknebel although the nice visualizations and query language is nice for initial experimentation
#
sebsel So that's something to explore.
#
sebsel haha, that's the other thing about Neo4j
#
sebsel it comes with this desktop client with fancy graphs.
#
sknebel for prototype stage I think that's a fair consideration
#
sebsel but that's just visuals. you can get that with many JS libs.
#
Zegnat You could also explore what Fever does (did). If anyone still has a copy of that source. It was all about surfacing the popular items from a bunch of feeds.
#
Zegnat What is Fever?
#
Loqi Fever was a self-hosted, proprietary feed reader that is no longer developed or sold as of 2016-12-24 [1] https://indieweb.org/fever
#
sknebel Now I wonder if I'd use an exposed Cypher interface in a reader
#
sebsel would you use a GraphQL interface in a reader?
#
sknebel you said that's not so good for the things Cypher is good at?
#
sebsel it's different
#
sebsel a good way to get a feel for GraphQL is looking at Github's: https://developer.github.com/v4/explorer/
#
sknebel I remember quite liking Cypher for what it is (compared to e.g. manually making SQL for the same)
#
sknebel but probably not in a normal reader, at least not with my current usage patterns
#
sebsel just be careful: it's an actual live API, so stay out of the mutations field ;)
#
GWG Reading websub protocol
[eddie], [chrisaldrich], [benatwork], [jgarber] and [Rose] joined the channel
#
aaronpk [jgarber] nice! https://indieweb-endpoints.cc/search?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronpk.com
#
Loqi IndieWeb Endpoints
#
aaronpk Suggestion: add the logic for following and resolving redirects according to IndieAuth and also include that url in the response
#
[jgarber] aaronpk: Thanks!
#
[jgarber] aaronpk: Ah, yeah, I should be displaying the resolved URL on the results page instead of the provided. Good call. Mind filing an issue on that? https://github.com/jgarber623/indieweb-endpoints.cc/issues
[calumryan] joined the channel
#
aaronpk Done
#
[jgarber] Thanks
#
[jgarber] !
#
[jgarber] Check the README on GitHub for how to hit the service from the command line, too. Bonus Feature™ 😀
benwerd and snarfed joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu [jgarber]: what's redirect_uri from?
snarfed joined the channel
#
Loqi [jgarber] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
#
doubleloop [jgarber]++ nice
#
doubleloop It seems to get tripped up by micropub_media endpoint - https://indieweb-endpoints.cc/search?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoubleloop.net
#
Loqi IndieWeb Endpoints
#
doubleloop micropub_media is missing, and micropub is reported as the media endpoint
#
sknebel KartikPrabhu: https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#redirect-url - not strictly an "endpoint"
#
KartikPrabhu aah
#
KartikPrabhu no wonder I don't have one :P
#
gRegorLove [jgarber]++ awesome!
#
Loqi [jgarber] has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
#
GWG Micropub_media is experimental
#
KartikPrabhu sure but it shouldn't pick that up as a micropub endpoint
benwerd joined the channel
#
GWG Yes, just saying that it might not have been anticip6
#
GWG anticipated
#
GWG KartikPrabhu, what are you up to, Indieweb wise?
#
KartikPrabhu nothing
#
KartikPrabhu my website seems to be running smoothly. Not sure I have any urgent itches
#
doubleloop grantcodes[m]: just in case you're not aware, https://photo.postrchild.com/ is getting an SSL error
Anchakor and eli_oat joined the channel
#
aaronpk had an idea for a helpful service for people building microsub apps
#
aaronpk a fake user account and fake microsub server which returns a set of placeholder content, kind of like a test suite
#
GWG Fub
#
GWG Fun
#
GWG aaronpk, trying to find the filter parameters you use to clean your HTML in xray
#
GWG Wondering if I can implement similar in wp_kses
#
aaronpk it's kinda buried
#
sknebel the test thing I made to show that clients got escaping of slashes wrong might actually still be running on some weird port of my server :D
#
aaronpk this is the part that removes all CSS classes except microformats classes https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/master/lib/XRay/Formats/HTMLPurifier_AttrDef_HTML_Microformats2.php
#
GWG Yes, wondering if I can get that into kses
#
GWG Have to read the code in WordPress
#
aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/a0f80593e9dea304371147e8f86359213ed11478/lib/XRay/Formats/Format.php#L37
benwerd and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG Should be easy to port
#
GWG Wonder how I test that
benwerd joined the channel