#dev 2019-05-31
2019-05-31 UTC
jgmac1106 and infominer[m] joined the channel
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infominer[m] tada
# infominer[m] i just had to sign in via browser and it worked fine.
# infominer[m] the problem was trying to join a new channel via app, mobile or desktop
# infominer[m] Zegnat: re: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Join_Discussions
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# infominer[m] the pain is worth the independence
# infominer[m] but they go hand in hand
# infominer[m] just the pain we choose
# infominer[m] but I will bow out for now :)
# infominer[m] way over my head in this channel, so my contributions would be largely deviation from actual dev
# infominer[m] idk rlly but I chatter sometimes, and you are having some deep discussion
# infominer[m] but yeah, i'm an operator... css is the first on my list of languages to learn, and some liquid whatever I pickup w jekyll
# infominer[m] tbh, its a bit culture shock... since I had an acer back a year or so before AOL popped off.. and did some BBS, and a local freenet... and barely remember how but just really basic html website..
# infominer[m] but drifted away from the tech scene for a long time living off grid on the land sorta thing
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# infominer[m] so now I'm super hyped to be back to my roots... and have to try and reign myself in somheow
# infominer[m] tbh, I mostly hang out w developers tho
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# infominer[m] btw, @gwg
# infominer[m] oh, hehe
# infominer[m] I'm stil in edit world over here...
# infominer[m] was going to say, while I'm here, and since you asked why I was leaving... that I'm really stoked on all the cool integrations around
# infominer[m] I find my way to indieweb via the Bitcoin space, and now I'm learning more about the historical movements towards a decentralized web...
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# infominer[m] and where they've come
# infominer[m] especially in the case of self sovereign identity which is the subject i'm most knowledgable in tech wise
# infominer[m] or development wise
# infominer[m] I like to write high level introduction to developers for those.
# infominer[m] <https://infominer.id/DIDecentralized/history/>
# infominer[m] I'm meta, its hard to know wat channels to rollw
# infominer[m] I do realize that I have not gone deep into scuttlebot, which is necessary.. and I'm only just learning of indieauth
# infominer[m] https://indieweb.org/2014-05-06-iiw-indieauth
# infominer[m] thats interesting to me... and just looking for intersections w more familiar turf
# infominer[m] RWoT I'm the most familiar with, but clearly indieweb is more connected w IIW, which i'm working my way over to
# infominer[m] i <3 DID is what I can say.
# infominer[m] I will require an Indieweb integrated DID, as soon as that's figured out
# infominer[m] I let the devs dev... n just keep track of everything I remember to on the fly
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# [xavierroy] [Rose] Check out https://github.com/beaulebens/keyring-social-importers/blob/master/importers/keyring-importer-tripit.php for some tripit ideas... I don't use tripit.. but would like to have a micropub option for trips
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DID" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "DID is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# infominer[m] I have something for this, if you like
# infominer[m] >The essence of Decentralized-ID is in creating open standards for a privacy preserving internet-wide identity layer — not owned by any one particular organization, but interoperable between all.
# infominer[m] that text is public domain
# infominer[m] from: https://infominer.id/DIDecentralized/
# infominer[m] everything i do is public domain, and all the images should have a source, if you care to re-use them... tho that logo I own, and is also public domain
# infominer[m] well, thats kind of the point, because you can't pin that statement down to any one, but it broadly categorizes many... I forgot the actual technical did part tho, srry
# infominer[m] which I notice now that I didn't write a one sentence of it for the front page, yet
# infominer[m] yes I will leave better information for when you get back
# infominer[m] and I think I can !tell you
# infominer[m] New decentralized technologies, such as blockchains, hash tables and semantic data graphs can enable the design and deployment of a decentralized identity architecture that can vastly improve security and privacy of individuals and entities in the digital world. This will lead to users on the internet becoming individuals with sovereign rights and ownership and control over their digital selves in similar ways that
# infominer[m] we have control over our physical selves.
# infominer[m] and there is a w3c spec under development, and many many organizations around this DID decentralized identifier
# infominer[m] many of the people involved have been so since the early days: like when Kim Cameron first published the Laws of Identity, and maybe a little before that, the standards community grew from the Planetworks conference
# infominer[m] 2005 was laws of identity, and 2000ish for the planetwork conference
# infominer[m] recently microsoft released code that people can use as a component to creating decentralized identifiers with the bitcoin blockchain
# infominer[m] and I expect they will contribute to more mainstream applications as well, their intersection with DID is significant, and platform agnostic,
# infominer[m] besides that there are too many competing networks that have competing implementations, but all using the same identifier
# infominer[m] so there will be many in the beginning, and a few will gain dominance, but you will be forced to use none of them
# infominer[m] well, more accurately you can choose whichever platform you prefer, since the identifiers are universally resolvable, and in the future will support a lot more than that
# infominer[m] https://w3c-ccg.github.io/did-spec/
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# Loqi Secure Scuttlebutt is a P2P system to sync message feeds, used to build (among others) social applications that work in off-grid/sneakernet scenarios https://indieweb.org/SSB
# infominer[m] aaah, well, I see an intersection, here. also:
# infominer[m] https://github.com/ssbc/ssb-server/issues/487
# infominer[m] how hard is it to get started w scuttle bot\butt?
# infominer[m] I will find out soon enough
# infominer[m] hehe.. blogging is new to me tbh, for a couple months I was building everything w pages like scaffolding :rof
# infominer[m] but now that I've started I can see a number of technical advantages that it offers
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# [Ana_R] is it just me or ownyourgram.com isn’t opening?
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[calumryan] Yep indieweb.org is down again
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# [Ana_R] i changed stuff on my micropub because of my instagram and i thought i destroyed all my work 😂 i will try again later 🙃
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j4y_funabashi morning all
# j4y_funabashi what is trip
# j4y_funabashi what is a trip?
# j4y_funabashi :(
# j4y_funabashi what is geo?
# j4y_funabashi oh looks like indieweb.org is down
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# j4y_funabashi does anyone here collect gpx data? I have around 2 years worth from my phone and am thinking about building a server to parse out trips
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petermolnar j4y_funabashi: https://github.com/bfabiszewski/ulogger-server can import gpx
# j4y_funabashi I use GPSLogger for android and it saves gpx files to my phone and I am thinking of ways I can parse that for 'interesting' trips
# petermolnar I ended up using ulogger by manually turning it on whenever I'm on a trip
# petermolnar so each trip can be exported as one gpx file
# j4y_funabashi ah ok, I am not that organized so I just leave it running all the time :)
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# j4y_funabashi I think that if I can figure out when I am not moving and when I am moving I can split out trips and maybe checkins automagically
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jeremycherfas I was collecting data with Tracks and dislaying selected trips on my site with leaflet.js but I discovered yesterday !) that is is not longer working. I installed Compass at IWC Utrecht a couple of weeks ago and am still working on displaying the data it collects.
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# j4y_funabashi jeremycherfas: does compass track continuously or do you have to start/stop it?
# jeremycherfas Compass tracks continuously. IOS only. https://github.com/aaronpk/Compass
# jeremycherfas It also has a facility for specifically recording trips and the mode of transport.
# jeremycherfas Is there a right/wrong answer to when an external script should be in HAED and when it should be towards the end of BODY?
# jeremycherfas HEAD
# jeremycherfas Apologies; yes. I was mixing the two up. Thanks GWG++
# j4y_funabashi jeremycherfas: I think the idea is that if the script is in HEAD and it errors or fails to load then the whole page stops being parsed
# j4y_funabashi but you can add 'async' which tells the browser to continue parsing the html while loading the script, like this:
# jeremycherfas So if it is not in HEAD you could Alert with an error messge? That seems sensible.
# j4y_funabashi <script type="text/javascript" src="path/to/script1.js" async></script>
# j4y_funabashi jeremycherfas: there is a more detailed answer here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/436411/where-should-i-put-script-tags-in-html-markup
# jeremycherfas OK. Thanks. I guess I should always check SO first.
# j4y_funabashi eh, sometimes it is full of red herrings
# jeremycherfas Yeah. But that infor about async and defer is useful, I think.
# j4y_funabashi petermolnar: do you use your gps data to create posts?
# petermolnar j4y_funabashi: not directly, I use it to backfill exif geo on my dslr images
[tantek], Loqi, zoglesby, romangeeko, NinjaTrappeur, jeremycherfas, blueyed, jgmac1106, eli_oat, gxt and jeremych_ joined the channel
# sknebel Medium << Medium to [[Gatsby]] converter: https://github.com/mathieudutour/medium-to-own-blog
# Loqi ok, I added "Medium to [[Gatsby]] converter: https://github.com/mathieudutour/medium-to-own-blog" to the "See Also" section of /Medium https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=61887&oldid=61368
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[jgmac1106] I need an h-event from someone to parse for the mdn wiki, don't want them all coming from my site anyone have a short and sweet event I can parse?
# Loqi IndieWeb Summit https://aaronparecki.com/2019/06/29/1/map.png
# [jgmac1106] thx
# jgmac1106 aaronpk I hope you don’t mind I removed a ton, nobody will see the actual post: https://spot-sundae.glitch.me/
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# j4y_funabashi is it inside a top level h-* object?
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106] it's mentioned in /authorship
# j4y_funabashi jgmac1106: if the author property is not inside a h-* object then I dont think the parser will know what to do with it
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# jgmac1106 would love an eye on here to make sure I did not royally mess anything up: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/microformats
# infominer[m] the most attractive feature of a wiki is active community engagement
# infominer[m] which this community has in spades
# infominer[m] +1
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# snarfed !tell grantcodes,ChrisAldrich,aaronpk hey everyone on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/854 , if you're not currently receiving facebook email notifications for comments, likes, etc, you might want to turn them on. i'll be ready for you to test soon!
# infominer[m] how many sign up to social media for the sole purpose of integrating with indieweb tech?
# infominer[m] content is so much work, you must create it for free, otherwise just bitter :rof
# infominer[m] but I think soon the industry $value of content will increase, as will demand on painstaking quality
# infominer[m] demand for, rather
# infominer[m] good morning!
# infominer[m] better realize it's morning before noon and gone
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# [schmarty] what is UGT?
# Loqi Universal Greeting Time is the convention of greeting people in online chat with "good morning" regardless of the local time of day of either person https://indieweb.org/UGT
# infominer[m] awesome! I've been on it for a while!
# infominer[m] not just 4 online
# infominer[m] I'm a build error or two away from my first hugo deploy :)
# [schmarty] [jgmac1106] are you interested in feedback for the MDN microformats page you've been working on?
# [schmarty] ok well here are Some Thoughts, feel free to ignore. 😄
# [schmarty] first up, drop "simple" (maybe replace with "minimal"?) and "quickly" from the opening sentence. next, i hate that search engines are listed as the first/primary consumer of microformats. search engines are mentioned twice in the first three sentences!
# [schmarty] next up, it feels odd to link to outdated mf1 hCard and hCalendar in the third paragraph, since the page hasn't mentioned any "modern" mf2 entities by name at that point.
# [schmarty] the microformats/microdata/rdfa bit should probably link out to some kind of landing pages for those specific technologies if possible.
# [schmarty] before listing prefixes, it probably makes sense to explain how mf2 works at a high level, with prefixes as parser instructions rather than a prescriptive vocabulary
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# [schmarty] there are some typos/bugs, like in the h-card example property explainer: "p-honorific-prefix The post office box number, if there is one." 🙃
# [schmarty] ... at that point i am down a rabbit hole wondering how to learn how properties like `p-sort-string` ended up being codified as part of h-card in http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Properties , so hopefully someone else can pick up for detailed feedback.
# [jgmac1106] thought I droopped all the adjectives good catch
# [jgmac1106] yeah i was following their previous template those comments make sense
# [schmarty] sknebel: some searching the mf wiki suggests that's exactly what happened. is there a reverse-adoption process to move "accepted" properties that might have been ushered in from mf1 back to "experimental"? ;}
# [schmarty] regardless of my snarky suggestion of a de-adoption process, i totally agree the MDN page should show only the most common properties and link to the spec. in fact, i'd limit the properties list to only explain what's in the examples on the page.
# [schmarty] (and include a link to the relevant properties spec section on the wiki at the bottom of each properties list)
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# [jgmac1106] all I have time for today but tried to fold in some suggestions: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/microformats
# [jgmac1106] got rid of the RDFa , microdata, microformats chart. it was a legacy from the old page that grouped them all together loosely under "semantic web" if folks fee it belongs will revert
# [schmarty] cool. i made an account and doing a proofreading pass now.
# [jgmac1106] schmarty++
# [schmarty] aw dang somebody stomped on it while i was editing
# [schmarty] that is very disheartening
# [schmarty] oh, it was [jgmac1106] fixing one of the typos. phew.
# [schmarty] ok! brought in some more detail from the mf wiki, reduced the property explainer tables to the properties in the example markup.
# [schmarty] it does not!
# [schmarty] it says something like "there was another edit while you were editing, please copy-paste your content somewhere safe"
# [schmarty] and then suggests you look over the revision history for the page to see what changed so you can understand and fix it.
# [schmarty] sorry 😞
# [schmarty] oh, thanks for checking that. i skipped the "parsed" JSON examples on this pass b/c it was taking so long just to get the "simple" examples and their tables minimized.
# [schmarty] oof, the example in h-feed is labeled "Example h-event" if you want to fix that up while you're in there :}
# [schmarty] ok running away from this wiki for now
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# [kevinmarks786] @schmarty there is a reverse adoption process in the specification model: http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Specifications
# [kevinmarks786] evaluate properties consumed by <2 consumers
# [kevinmarks786] or wait for more additional publisher(s)/consumer(s) to support them. up to editor's preference.
# [kevinmarks786] such properties block advancement from specification to standard.
# [kevinmarks786] drop such under-supported property(ies) - insufficient market support to keep them. properties which fail in the real world should be and get dropped (per the simplify principle). features may be reconsidered for future versions.
# [schmarty] oooo
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# [kevinmarks786] Interesting https://twitter.com/yfriedman/status/1134574538895843328?s=20
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[tantek] GWG, sknebel, aaronpk, part of the point of the explicit change control in parsing spec, and at least h-entry (more as we get consensus) is to enable adding/promoting/removing properties asynchronously, in such a way that you can cite evidence for each step, instead of having to "meet in person"
# [tantek] wonders if Quill or Indigenous has Web App Manifest and thus could register as a (default) share target per https://wicg.github.io/web-share-target/level-2/
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# 
gRegorLove Moved microformats parsing spec topic to #microformats
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[eddie] If I read the explainer correctly, it seems like if this ever makes its way to iOS, essentially a website with the Share ability will trigger the native sharing sheet. So odds are native apps shouldn’t need to do anything to support it? Just Web Apps from what I’m reading? I guess we’ll see as it comes around
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# [kevinmarks786] Which should make it easier to post a quote and a link
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