#dev 2019-06-04

2019-06-04 UTC
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@ephes ↩️ Ganz interessant in dem Zusammenhang: https://mobile.twitter.com/benadida/status/1135716764174753798?s=12 - ich fände ja so etwas wie https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth noch schicker. (twitter.com/_/status/1135757403729870848)
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jamietanna[m] aaronpk: looking at the sign in with apple example, I see the comment `Save your private key from Apple in a file` does that mean they provide both the public and the private to a dev, rather than going through certificate signing process?
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[kevinmarks786] Did we see https://github.com/ceejbot/economics-of-package-management/blob/master/essay.md
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[kevinmarks786] One interesting thing in the stuff about entropic
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[kevinmarks786] “You sign in with your GitHub account, and any oauth provider is pluggable” - so could use indieauth?
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[tantek] aaronpk, I figure you already had this thought but wrote it down anyway: https://indieweb.org/Sign_in_with_Apple#handler_for_rel_me_to_email
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Zegnat [tantek]: note that aaronpk when testing did not get an email from the auth flow, but a unique ID instead, which could be awkward for rel-me: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-06-03/1559596452187400
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Loqi [aaronpk] it returns a unique ID for me, 001473.fe6f83bf4b8e4590aacbabdcb8598bd0.2039
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[tantek] Zegnat that's only if you initiate it without an email - I'm wondering if an app can pre-fill an email that the user wants to sign-in with
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[tantek] and that's the email that is discovered by rel=me link to email
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Zegnat Oh, interesting idea
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sebsel but then it requires publishing an email address again :(
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sebsel I guess there is no way around that for rel=me
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[tantek] sebsel, nothing requires publishing an email address
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[tantek] my point is if the user *chooses* to publish an email address (e.g. already does so, plenty of folks do), *then* it can be used for IndieAuth via Apple sign-in
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[grantcodes] Alrighty, pretty close to having my microsub middleware idea working. I got it to pull posts from channels, parse them and then create its own feed. Was a more complicated flow than I thought. Now I'll see if it actually works
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[jgmac1106] grantcodes++
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Loqi grantcodes has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (36 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] And at some point Grant Glitch has to monetize...hoping they allow others to monetize... Seems team subscriptions put on hold
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[jgmac1106] Grantcodes check with Eddie in #dev he was just talking about something similar
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aaronpk jamietanna[m]: yes it's not the same as an ssl cert, it's just a private key and they use this same flow for most of their authentication and signing stuff elsewhere in the platform
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[eddie] Ohhhhh, Core ML (Machine Learning) 3 that Apple is rolling out, will be able to use on-device machine learning so you can have custom algorithms that stay on the device you control. One I have the basics built into Remark, I think i’m going to have to experiment with that and see if I can get Remark to help provide some on-device channel (in addition to a Microsubs regular channels) that helps surface stuff from your various channels that you
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jamietanna[m] aaronpk: Interesting, thanks, just wondering because that'll then mean they have access to the private key too
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aaronpk Sure but it doesn't really matter for this
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aaronpk I think they don't store it since they say you have to download it as soon as it's created and you can never go find it again later
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aaronpk so you're trusting that they're not storing it, but that seems like not a huge risk given that the only thing the key is good for is talking to Apple
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jamietanna[m] 👍🏽
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[grantcodes] Ok my microsub middleware *might* now work https://glitch.com/~microsub-middleware Feel free to try / remix
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[grantcodes] The daily publish time will definitely not be correct for now, but should happen once a day fingers crossed
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[tantek] I have a long delayed post about rel=me updates from the past year (now 1.5 yrs) that I clearly should have already posted since now there's a need to reference what's new with rel=me
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[tantek] Zegnat what have you heard besides Mastodon re: what's new with rel=me ?
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GWG I am interested in new things I might try with rel me
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[kevinmarks786] rel-me << https://help.micro.blog/2017/web-site-verification/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://help.micro.blog/2017/web-site-verification/" to the "See Also" section of /rel-me https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=62104&oldid=62102
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@jgmac1106 My #oext355 survival pack: paper and pencil....and then more...best tech ever...then my url and webmentions (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1HXwBf) (twitter.com/_/status/1135965985683451905)
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aaronpk [fluffy] part of the reason that Atom/RSS looks "easier" to parse than mf2 is because it's much more limited in what can be included in the feed. and even then, go look at any mature parsing library and you'll see it's full of quite a mess of stuff to handle all the variations
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[jgmac1106] [fluffy] as someone new to much of this stuff I was amazed that all I had to do was put mr2 in HTML and it just worked as a blog in my reader
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aaronpk and that's just to publish articles
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aaronpk now imagine trying to also include photos, videos, replies, likes, reposts, etc in Atom/RSS, and imagine how much more complicated it would get
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[fluffy] That’s fair, but I also find it easier to wrap my head around because I can just look at the file and see what does what.
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jacky the file being the feed?
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aaronpk you can do that with mf2 for the most part if you ignore the HTML of it and only look at the parsed result
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[fluffy] yeah
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jacky the same can be done for h-feed
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jacky in a more familiar (one less "format") layout too
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aaronpk when i'm looking at mf2 I don't look at HTML at all, i just run it through a parser and see what the JSON looks like
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[fluffy] That’s fair
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jacky like if you're already okay with HTML, then h-feed is no different
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[fluffy] but like, Atom also provides the concept of images/photos/etc. as “attachments”
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aaronpk only in very limited ways and with limited consumer support
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[fluffy] Fair.
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[fluffy] One specific thing I dislike about h-feed is that it doesn’t really lend itself well to a template where there’s a “cut” though.
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[fluffy] if you subscribe to the h-feed on the summary page you only get the summaries. In my atom feed I can provide full content and also have a feed-specific layout for things like images etc.
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jacky that's dependent on the markup of one's h-feed, no?
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[fluffy] and I also feel like the atom answer of “just include your images/video/etc. as inline content to the HTML” works fine for the cases I’ve considered.
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[fluffy] Well, sure, I could provide a full-content h-feed that formats the same as my atom feed. :)
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[fluffy] But I already have the atom feed and it’s already supported by all the feed readers I know.
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[fluffy] That said I would liket o add h-feed support into feedparser.py at some point
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[fluffy] or, you know, see it added
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[fluffy] I guess I’m not *opposed* to mf2, I just feel like it’s another layer of complexity and confusion in an already complex and confused space.
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[fluffy] I do try to support it wherever I can of course.
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[fluffy] I wonder how hard it’d be to add into SimplePie.
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aaronpk most of the hard part of consuming microformats isn't actually related to HTML at all. it's handling the variations in where things like the author appear in the data structure.
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aaronpk i've dealt with this a *lot* while writing Aperture
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aaronpk for example, here are the instructions on how to determine the author of a post https://indieweb.org/authorship#How_to_determine
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aaronpk this is a double edged sword, because while it makes it a little harder for consumers, it offers much more flexibility for publishers. and since there are far more publishers than consuming code, it makes sense to optimize for that.
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[fluffy] yeah, and having the validator helps a lot.
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[fluffy] One of my long-term projects is to add authentication/friends-only stuff into feeds and while I think I have an okay idea of how to go forward (which we’ve talked about a bunch in the past, actually your responses to my original E2EE proposal are how I started following the whole indieweb scene in the first place!) I’ve definitely focused on the Atom side of things, and I’m not entirely sure how it might work in an mf2 world.
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[fluffy] I guess the mf2 approach would be to have the authentication stub be visible in the HTML, maybe hide it using CSS.
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[fluffy] or in the case of just doing a single thing to indicate that there’s potential auth content, that would just be a stub entry that appears at the top of the screen and does double-duty.
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@jackyalcine ↩️ Not going to lie; it’s a bit convoluted but it’s been getting better. I use software that the IndieWeb built around things like Micropub and Microsub - namely Quill, Monocle and Bridgy. Those three together help me reply to silos and what not pretty… https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/d2f3e518-e74c-4e88-9633-6c41a8fd4467 (twitter.com/_/status/1135982197842894849)
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[kevinmarks786] Atom is superficially easier to parse but in practice feedparser covers a multitude of sins. But h-feed does have the summary/content distinction that atom has already. You could hide the full content part with css (or details/summary)
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gRegorLove_ jacky, Do you have a notes stream with the full content? Subscribed to https://v2.jacky.wtf/stream?type=note
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gRegorLove_ currently
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jacky I've been leaning on consumers to fetch content from the individual u-url posts
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jacky was also under the assumption that clients would do that
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jacky I can patch it to provide the full bit of content tho
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gRegorLove_ Gotcha
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gRegorLove_ That sounds like a tough problem, like how does the consumer know they're only getting a truncated post?
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jacky I think if I remove `name` and only provide `url`; that could be a signal?
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gRegorLove_ mf2 parsers will always imply `name`
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jacky TIL
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jacky hmm
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jacky what is h-feed
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Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft specification with a top level feed object to contain h-entry posts and optionally a common author https://indieweb.org/h-feed
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jacky nothing there about partial content
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gRegorLove_ `u-url u-uid` (canonical url) being different than the feed URL could be a signal, but even then, some h-feeds (mine) include full content, so the extra fetch isn't necessary
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gRegorLove_ finds https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/70
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Loqi [aaronpk] #70 Expand content of posts from post permalink
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jacky interesting
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gRegorLove You don't need to change your feed for me, though, I was just wondering if another already existed. :)
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gRegorLove Looks like I can subscribe to the Atom for that
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jacky yeah
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jacky but I _will_ make a few changes tho
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jacky was working near this at the moment anyhow
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jacky going to patch to show full notes but truncate for articles
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jacky is definitely going to retroactively add summaries to a lot of his longer posts
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[kevinmarks786] Summary versus content is how you clarify
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[kevinmarks786] If the entry has summary but no content that implies the url has more, but maybe we should state that.
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[kevinmarks786] It's a little tricky as summary can be there for a media entry.
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@grantcodes ↩️ Hey David, it's not too well documented but you need IndieAuth setup on your site to login. See https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth for details (twitter.com/_/status/1136025311441772544)
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[tantek] Wait David has been to IWS last year! He knows this! 🙂 [dave]
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GWG Re the earlier feed issue, I prefer h-feed
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snarfed following up from yesterday....it does seem possible to do bare bones backfeed with just ifttt/zapier + granary. kind of interesting.
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snarfed could be a good way to try out backfeed for new silos that i have no plans to add to bridgy
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22new+silo%22
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snarfed may also need telegraph in some cases...but no code!
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GWG Was it KartikPrabhu who only supports an atom feed
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KartikPrabhu yes