#dev 2019-06-14

2019-06-14 UTC
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[jgmac1106] in my classes I put a third party chat app on my websites.. not sure if a microsub chat app between a group could or should be a thing, if it is best tech but if that had DMs or a delete after 24 hours thing could be neat
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[jgmac1106] aaronpk you have me addicted to the twitter threader app, once I get write access back and I tweet from Known I think I will still pull the thread from Twitter and put it on my website...getting in the mf2 was just a bit of find and replace, I lose the dt-published but I didn't look deep into the export features
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @OnlineCrsLady just wait until you try a social reader that gets feeds through microsub and writes through micropub it's such a wonderful experience as it finally unites reading and writing in one place. (twitter.com/_/status/1139352193847500800)
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[chrisaldrich] !tell jmac the idea of rel-nomention may have stemmed from this: https://boffosocko.com/2018/01/24/definition-of-submention/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jmac Ah, rad
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Loqi jmac: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 1 minute ago: the idea of rel-nomention may have stemmed from this: https://boffosocko.com/2018/01/24/definition-of-submention/
KartikPrabhu, [tantek], deathrow1, NinjaTrappeur, oodani, mblaney, treora, jgmac1106, [jgmac1106], gRegorLove, cweiske, [miklb] and swentel joined the channel
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mblaney I've been thinking about what remysharp1 said earlier about webmention source and target, maybe not quite his question but I had a moment thinking "oh yeah the receiver can discover targets from the source". But the bigger picture is that webmentions are already asymmetric and pushing back on the sender is a good thing.
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mblaney ie the sender needs to know the exact target for the receiver to do any more than the minimum processing.
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@swentel ↩️ Hmm, I guess the logic behind that lives on the (Microsub) server / framework. Indigenous (and the endpoint I'm using) just accepts push notifications, it doesn't care about the content at all. (twitter.com/_/status/1139432550634577920)
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[grantcodes] Woohoo this is pretty awesome! I have a base glitch site working really well! Just click the link, fill in the form and boom you have a site with; micropub, webmention (send & receive), microsub (via aperture), auth and token endpoints (indieauth.com) (rel=me email login)
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[grantcodes] If someone else would like to try it that would be great 🙂
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[grantcodes] https://glitch.com/edit/#!/remix/indieweb-starter
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[grantcodes] Click that, then visit the site and fill in the form 🙂
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swentel that is cool indeed
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swentel I've been contemplating to start a service too on top of the drupal modules I wrote, but still not sure
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cweiske I think that api services run by people are not really helping fulfilling the indieweb goal. just consider the bus factor of aaronpk. once webmention.io is down, 95% of the people cannot receive comments anymore
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cweiske that's not what I think "indie" means
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[grantcodes] That depends on the definition of a service
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[grantcodes] It's obviously not going to be possible for most people in the world to manage their own website with code and servers and dns etc etc. So a "service" that makes all that easier is great and very indie friendly I think
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cweiske "don't use those central services, they get all your data - use indieweb. to use indieweb, use this central service that gets most of your data"
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[kevinmarks786] Run an instance of the service yourself? With glitch/Heroku that is fairly easy. A bit more work with other stacks
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[kevinmarks786] Appengine used to make it fairly easy to add a service to your own Google domain but I think that has for buried now.
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GWG Morning all
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[jgmac1106] morning gwg sorry to bail on you last night was tired
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GWG I understand.
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[eddie] cweiski I think the key is that there are just a couple services right now (aaronpk for webmention, snarfed for backfeed) the key is having many different services. The more services we have the less “centralized” it is. There is nothing wrong with a service, it’s just not good to have everyone on a single service run by one person
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[eddie] swentel I say absolutely start the service! The more user friendly IndieWeb options, the easier it is for people to get involved and the MORE it matches the spirit of the IndieWeb
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swentel true
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aaronpk Yes and that's also why I intentionally limit the features of some of my services, so that other people are encouraged to build new/better ones
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Loqi aaronpk: [grantcodes] left you a message 14 hours, 37 minutes ago: So got a remixable indieweb starter on glitch with micropub, webmentions & indieauth. I tried to get it to automatically make a aperture account based on the wp plugin, but I couldn't get it to work for some reason. I get a 200 response, but no callback from aperture
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aaronpk [grantcodes]: i saw your later messages, did you get it working?
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[eddie] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 60 karma in this channel over the last year (240 in all channels)
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[eddie] I also think Micro.blog is a great example of this because since it charges for hosting it has a financial model that supports it ma continued existence but someone on Micro.blog can intercommunicate with anyone in the IndieWeb
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[eddie] A combination of free and paid services are what will make the IndieWeb accessible to everyday people
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swentel yeah, need to change some internals in the drupal module first
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swentel to allow multiple users, especially on the microsub level
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swentel there rest should work already
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swentel *the
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@ton_zylstra ↩️ Cool! Meteen je feed weer aan mijn reader toegevoegd, want die ontbrak nog sinds mijn herstart met rss lezen. En je hebt je site #indieweb enabled met webmention zie ik. Nice. Tot blogs! ;) (twitter.com/_/status/1139531982575218688)
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[kevinmarks786] We have a few webmention options - webmention.io, webmention.herokuapp.com, mention.tech
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[grantcodes] !tell aaronpk yep got it working, was the most classic of programming problems: a typo. I put a link to the working project somewhere
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk hehe of course
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Loqi aaronpk: [grantcodes] left you a message 23 minutes ago: yep got it working, was the most classic of programming problems: a typo. I put a link to the working project somewhere
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aaronpk great
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[grantcodes] I was honestly kind of surprised how easy it was to setup, and you get a decent (not amazing) working indieweb website out of it
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[schmarty] grantcodes: I'd like to get some express middlewares to that same level of pluggability so folks can launch their own auth etc in glitch :)
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[schmarty] Crud I need to figure out what I am gonna demo at summit and whether I need to built anything for it
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[grantcodes] Yeah we talked about that but never got around to it. I've got the indieauth lib on GitHub too that I never got around to publishing on npm
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[schmarty] That would be nice to finish up!
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[grantcodes] Well I'd say it's finished, I've used it in a few projects without issues. I think I was wondering whether I should publish it under the @indieweb org I have on npm or not
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[tantek] [schmarty] looking forward to your /CRUD demo then!
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[tantek] What is crud?
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Loqi CRUD refers to the ability to Create, Read, Update and Delete comments and posts https://indieweb.org/CRUD
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[schmarty] Time for a disambiguation page. "Did you mean the compsci term or the mild swear?" 😂
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[schmarty] (Or are they the same??)
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[kevinmarks786] What is cthulu?
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Loqi CTHULU is Create, Tombstone, Hide, Unhide, List, Update https://indieweb.org/CTHULU
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[tantek] What is CDURU?
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Loqi CDURU is Create Delete Undelete Read Update as defined in http://tantek.com/2016/093/t1/indieweb-micropub-incrementalism-cduru — a replacement for CRUD https://indieweb.org/CDURU
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[tantek] cweiske while I appreciate the humor attempt, the analogy is inaccurate. It conflates UI/permalinks services vs swappable backend services and those are massively different in terms of migration costs / friction
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[tantek] That being said, the bus factor criticisms are spot on and I think something the community is quite aware of / working on
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[tantek] What is SPOA
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Loqi single point of aaron is when a relatively early IndieWeb technology is being developed and there haven't been enough implementations to create proper diversity causing an over reliance on one of Aaron Parecki's services in order for the technology to work broadly https://indieweb.org/SPOA
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[tantek] cweiske ^^^ feel free to expand :)
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[eddie] Hmmm, I seem to be failing the Micropub.rocks delete test 🤔
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[eddie] Content-Type: x-www-form-urlencoded
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[eddie] url=https://micropub.rocks/client/HTSxBUnl2jHeMh1Y/500/sGG1d2PC&
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[eddie] action=delete
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[eddie] Anyone see anything I'm missing there? That's what Micropub.rocks shows as it's receiving which I think is correct
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[eddie] ohhhh wait... that isn't encoded properly, is it.
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[eddie] hmmm well it's encoded but Micropub.rocks is still claiming I don't have action=delete
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sknebel [eddie]: time to check the code of micropub.rocks if it checks correctly? :D
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[tantek] I feel this relates to several of our IndieWeb projects / spofs / spots and I’m not sure where to capture it on the wiki: https://twitter.com/andrestaltz/status/1139156022432587776
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@andrestaltz 📜 New blog post: "Software below the poverty line" https://staltz.com/software-below-the-poverty-line.html https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D88YVuaX4AAX2dh.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1139156022432587776)
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[eddie] lol, maybe sknebel, maybe 😆
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[eddie] hmmm from what I can tell the code seems to be right
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[eddie] The part that is triggering my error is checking the params variable and if that was broken I think the entire suite would be broken lol
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[eddie] so *somehow* what I'm sending is not becoming a parameter
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[eddie] lol
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[eddie] probably some weird Swift thing
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[miklb] morning all. Looking for svg icon set recommendations. Octicons don’t match the social icons I started with.
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GWG miklb, I use simpleicons and font awesome
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[miklb] thanks. I’m using simpleicons and that’s what’s not matching. I’ll look at font-awesome. I think I had the impression that was an icon font.
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jacky I've been using feathericons
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jacky http://feathericons.com/
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jacky they have a macOS-/Apple-y vibe to them
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[miklb] I do like that. Similar weight to the GitHub icons. Need a broader selection of social icons. For a theme & h-card.
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[eddie] That looks nice
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[miklb] [grantcodes] I’m going to give that glitch remix a spin tonight. Will greatly facilitate launching my new personal site to keep working on jekyll-indieweb
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[tantek] what is a social icon
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "social icon" yet. Would you like to create it?_6 (Or just say "social icon is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what are social icons
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "social icons" yet. Would you like to create it?_7 (Or just say "social icons is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] hmm
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sknebel pocket << [[IFTTT]] integration, e.g. for POSSE: https://ifttt.com/pocket
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Loqi ok, I added "[[IFTTT]] integration, e.g. for POSSE: https://ifttt.com/pocket" to a new "See Also" section of /Pocket_Casts https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=62420&oldid=34903
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[tantek] wait really that works?
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[kevinmarks786] What icons do you want, ones for logos or for actions?
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[kevinmarks786] The material icons are open source https://github.com/google/material-design-icons
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[miklb] these are the icons the theme currently supports for h-card https://cdn.miklb.com/Jekyll-IndieWeb-00-ms.png
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[kevinmarks786] Very minimal logo icons https://github.com/edent/SuperTinyIcons
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[miklb] note the thin lines on RSS & mail. I’d like to find something that matches and also can use for visual representation of post type/kind i.e. note, photo, etc
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[kevinmarks786] They're good for inlining
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[miklb] I’m working on a build flow using svgo npm package & gulp to minimize the svg before it inlines the svg into the file
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[miklb] but it’s a nice set for the h-card. I wouldn’t mind a slight different icon for posts
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[tantek] edent++
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Loqi edent has 1 karma over the last year
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[kevinmarks786] You won't need to with those, they're hand tuned
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[miklb] but as with simpleicons it doesn’t have a companion icon set for broader visualizations so you wind up with two sets. Will need to optimize the second set.
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[kevinmarks786] What do you mean by broader here?
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[miklb] as I mentioned, an icon to help visually represent the type/kind. Listening, watching, link, etc
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jacky [miklb]: I've been looking into this
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jacky feathericons kind of gave me this
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jacky but I took them out after some time because I was using them from the JS loading angle
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[eddie] Yay, I passed Micropub Rocks 502 and 502 🙌
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Loqi giggles
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[eddie] turns out I was confused and wasn't sending the "application/" before "x-www-form-urlencoded"
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sknebel [eddie]: lol, totally skipped that too when looking at what you posted above...
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sknebel checked it was the right one, totally missed the application/
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sknebel feature request for micropub.rocks: complain about wrong content type?
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aaronpk Wow I didn't even think to check that
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[kevinmarks786] Ah gotcha. The material ones have those kind of things but they're very minimal
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[kevinmarks786] https://material.io/tools/icons/?style=baseline
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[kevinmarks786] They have had ux testing and they are in use by Google, but stylistically very muted
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[kevinmarks786] Or noun project?
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[miklb] I’m familiar with noun. Was just curious if anyone had settled on/liked a particular set.
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[kevinmarks786] Try the Google ones, see if they fit? Or try emoji? Both are peer reviewed
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[miklb] think I’m going to settle on this for now https://icomoon.io/#preview-free and revisit later. thanks everyone
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gRegorLove Thinking about Summit... any indiebookclub users have requests for something I can add before Summit? No guarantees, but I can try, haha
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gRegorLove I started working on https://github.com/gRegorLove/indiebookclub/issues/4 a while back, maybe I could finish that up
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Loqi [grantcodes] #4 Feature: Support the `visibility` property
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gRegorLove cc [schmarty], I think you use ibc a fair bit
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[schmarty] i use it some! not sure of any features i'd add immediately.
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[schmarty] (full disclosure i made a shortcut that runs from a book's goodreads.com page in Safari, pulls the data I want, and makes a post with extra author, book URL info)
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[schmarty] i do have some somewhat complex read posts where i have the URL of the author and the URL of the book.
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[schmarty] e.g. https://martymcgui.re/2018/05/15/230209/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] A great intro to the power of service workers, a great collection of resources for learning more, and a great inspiration for improving the things I build on the web!
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jacky those look good! [miklb]
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gRegorLove ooh, nice [schmarty]. JS bookmarklet or using the goodreads API?
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[schmarty] it's an iOS shortcut that uses the "run javascript on page" thing. so, basically a bookmarklet, but iOS-only.
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gRegorLove After last summit I had the idea of an Amazon bookmarklet to extract the info and populate the IBC form
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gRegorLove IBC supports it, just haven't made the bookmarklet
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[schmarty] that'd be rad! ditto goodreads.
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gRegorLove Been doing it manual till it hurts
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[schmarty] ❤ bookmarklets.
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gRegorLove Is it posting to your site via micropub then or something else?
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[tantek] Note to micropub client devs: please don’t CC a copy of every post to your own centralized (corporate) server. Unlike say, Tootdon: https://pleroma.site/objects/2bc5262a-48eb-46ee-ae92-56cccdc6a7a2
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[schmarty] gRegorLove: micropub! i have a utility shortcut that takes JSON data and passes it along as a micropub post (with a third util shortcut that simply holds my micropub info, token)
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sknebel aaronpk: btw, did you ever get anywhere with your OAuth2/NFC experiments?
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @dajbelshaw @kennibc @ReVIEWTalentFS I love teaching with webmentions and other #IndieWeb buildong blocks (twitter.com/_/status/1139640116354437125)
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aaronpk sknebel: no, i remember investigating the hardware and got overwhelmed
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[eddie] Wow, that’s bad (tootdon)
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aaronpk jacky++ your site is looking much better in my reader now!
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Loqi jacky has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (65 in all channels)
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jacky that's good to hear!
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jacky tests helped a lot with that
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aaronpk tests++
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Loqi tests has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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aaronpk although hmm, your last post didn't work right
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aaronpk ohh
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aaronpk jacky: your mf2+json is a little bit off... properties['content']['text'] should be properties['content']['value']
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aaronpk also your underscore property names need to be hyphens... "like-of" instead of "like_of"
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jacky do you have a link?
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jacky oh last post
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aaronpk all of them?
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jacky oh the mf2 is coming from the elixir library
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jacky sighs
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jacky that'll be a longer fix
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aaronpk the elixir parser?
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jacky yeah I run the html for the current post through the mf2 parser
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jacky the = the elixir one
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aaronpk oops how'd that parser end up with underscore property names? that wouldn't have passed any of the tests
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jacky not 100% sure
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aaronpk may i suggest taking out the rel=alternate link until that's fixed?
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jacky sure
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aaronpk cause right now my site is rendering all your posts wrong because it doesn't see those properties
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sknebel probably to be able to use symbols(?) to represent the keys in internal structures? and then just the JSON-conversion doesn't reverse that step?
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jacky sknebel: that's close to what I'm going to do
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jacky or rather that's what it does
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jacky symbols are cheaper memory-wise
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sknebel yes, and internally to an app that's a good idea
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jacky should be gone in about ~5 minutes
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@ChangelingMx ↩️ @Cambridgeport90 the URL is http://brid.gy if that helps. (twitter.com/_/status/1139655452634099722)
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sknebel now I wonder if anything handles u-photo with a data url
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk anything that passes thru the property without looking at it would "work"
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aaronpk my website downloads avatars from webmentions received, i'm not really sure what it would do with a data URI tho
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[tantek] yes! a data URL of a 1px blue PNG
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[tantek] maybe it's time to find out
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jacky lol!
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aaronpk oh snap i think it would work transparently lol https://www.php.net/manual/en/wrappers.data.php
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jacky wow
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jacky that's actually sick
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sknebel aaronpk: depends on what your image resizing etc library uses internally to open files?
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aaronpk right
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[kevinmarks786] Didn't one version of quill send images as data urls?
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aaronpk the article editor includes data URIs in the HTML if you don't have a media endpoint
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aaronpk cause then images "just work" if you accept HTML and don't do anything special
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[kevinmarks786] That was it - I think i have some posts like that from before known had an endpoint
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[kevinmarks786] This one I think http://epeus.blogspot.com/2015/05/how-quills-editor-looks.html
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