#dev 2019-06-23

2019-06-23 UTC
chrisaldrich, [Michael_Beckwit, KartikPrabhu, [tantek], eli_oat, snarfed, dhanesh95, leg and [tonz] joined the channel
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@kmelve What's the reason we can't just embed a tidy JSON-LD formatted string for webmentions, instead of using classes? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1142699745414131712)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ How you make sense of the pages that webmention you is up to you. People have experimented with JSON-LD webmentions. Then there's a different spec written with an LD centred focus https://www.w3.org/TR/ldn/ (twitter.com/_/status/1142718506359840768)
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jgmac1106 [jee] you would not put it in the p-content, must people leave the reply context above, I believe parses still handle it as there are times when you may want to put a reply in content but those are usually mentions https://indieweb.org/reply
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jgmac1106 KartikPrabhu I was saying its valid but common practice for a reply is to not put it in p or e content, but again is totally valid
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jee[m] ok thank's so i guess there is an issue on my h-entry formatting i will complete my question but need to go eat before
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jgmac1106 enjoy the meal and you can always as Loqi for help
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jgmac1106 What is reply?
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Loqi A reply (or comment) is a kind of post that is a text (typically, though photos are possible too) response to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indieweb.org/reply
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jgmac1106 What is h-entry?
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Loqi h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-entry
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jgmac1106 and [jee] you can also use Kaja to fire up a parser to check h-entry markup
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jgmac1106 just add !mf2 in fron of a link
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jgmac1106 !mf2 http://testkirby.jgregorymcverry.com/notes/kirbynote13
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftestkirby.jgregorymcverry.com%2Fnotes%2Fkirbynote13
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] spent way too much time not doing the pagination work, but had a good discussion on alt text. Who am I to ignore serendipitous learning? ooh kirby panel has spellcheck, or that was my browser not sure.
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] spent way too much time not doing the pagination work, but had a good discussion on alt text. Who am I to ignore serendipitous learning? ooh kirby panel has spellcheck, or that was my browser not sure.
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jamietanna[m] !tell jacky re licenses, have you looked at https://tldrlegal.com/ before?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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dhanesh95 Aloha folks! After spending two weekends, I've finally complete the rebuild of my website that follows all indieweb suggestions.
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dhanesh95 Please have a look and let me know if anyone has any additional suggestions - https://dhanesh95.gitlab.io
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[grantcodes] Looks great dhanesh95
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[grantcodes] dhanesh95++
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Loqi dhanesh95 has 1 karma over the last year
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[grantcodes] Nice and speedy!
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[grantcodes] Have you got your own domain lined up to replace the gitlab URL?
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dhanesh95 [grantcodes]: Thanks! I'm planning to buy a domain in a day or two. Will replace it with the gitlab URL
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jgmac1106 is there a tool I can use where I can send a pporly indented HTML file through and get it back all nicey nice?
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jgmac1106 poorly* just realized indentation in Kirby isn’t just good practice it is required
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[grantcodes] Sounds good dhanesh95
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jgmac1106 dhanesh95++
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Loqi dhanesh95 has 2 karma over the last year
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[miklb] [jgmac1106] I use a beautify extension in my editor.
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jgmac1106 awesomem thx, gonna look for a sublime extension…and it wasn’t perfect identation, just no spacing..makes sense in a text phone
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[grantcodes] Correctly indented html is *required* that's pretty hardcore! But prettier seems the industry standard at least for JavaScript use nowadays
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jgmac1106 my son just checked out a 10 disc set of pokemon so I might lost my computer soon anyways..he is hovering
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jgmac1106 I realized it was having a linebreak in my HTML not the spacing, but it is a txt file rendering HTML so I can see how line breaks cause problems
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jgmac1106 trying to make this: https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/resume.html into this http://testkirby.jgregorymcverry.com/resume
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jgmac1106 miklb as you continue your move back to Jekyll you might want to check out Kirby, keep thinking of all our conversations as I play
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[miklb] what is kirby
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Loqi Kirby is a filed-based CMS written in PHP https://indieweb.org/Kirby
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jgmac1106 been using it as a way to teach myself PHP after wasting a bunch of time on LinkedIn courses…and quickly enjoying a flat file cms, not a SSG just enough flexibility for fun
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jgmac1106 and Danny grabbed my phone with the Disney Now app app for his Pokemon fix so I can continue playing, thx for the Beautify recommendation
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jgmac1106 yipee!! think I am done…well need to do the print version still: http://testkirby.jgregorymcverry.com/resume
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jgmac1106 !mf2 http://testkirby.jgregorymcverry.com/resume
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftestkirby.jgregorymcverry.com%2Fresume
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jgmac1106 really do wish you could add, or if you can it was easier, a print media query to detail/summary so it defaulted open. I couldn’t figure it out and wrote a second stylesheet
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jgmac1106 well off for the day, if I don’t attack the honeydo list instead of my dev.to.do list I will be left in #pdx after summit
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jgmac1106 thanks for the help Mike and Grant
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jmac Hi gang. Today I have a question about displaying backfed webmentions.
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jmac Currently my implementation displays webmentions according to their "received" timestamps, which seems sensible on the surface.
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jmac But this breaks when I get a bunch of webmentions at once from Bridgy, and Bridgy wants to share, say, a three-note conversation I had on Twitter. They all have the same received timestamp, and so my blog displays them in random order
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jmac I note that bridgy documents contain a `published` property to their `entry` microformat, and certainly I could make use of this. Is this standard(ish) enough to support at a library level, or is this something only Bridgy does?
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sebsel This seems related to using the u-url from the microformats and the source url from the webmention
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sebsel those are different for Bridgy as well
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sebsel in both cases: it’s nice to show the microformats version, because that’s the original, but also: they can be faked / off
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sebsel I would say, since you want to display another thing, use the one that is optimized for display, and that is Mf2
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sebsel and, if it does not provide the `published` property, go for the received-date, or don’t show anything at all.
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sebsel either way it’s good to have a fallback, because not all posts will have all information :)
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jmac Yeah, I hear you with the u-url and my library does indeed check for that
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jmac I would be happy to use `dt-published` if that is a(n ad-hoc?) standard property in the same way that `u-url` is for getting the "more correct" source info for a given WM, if present in its source document
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[eddie] jmac: yeah, dt-Published is standard just like u-url
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jmac That's what I like to hear. Thank you!
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sebsel oh, sorry for making the answer too complicated then, yes, dt-published it is!
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jmac sebsel++
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Loqi sebsel has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (31 in all channels)
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@foobartel ↩️ And when I skimmed the comments, I came across this: A pingback to @adactio! Except for being talked about in blogs, I haven’t seen this in long. Webmentions, anyone? (twitter.com/_/status/1142824241424826373)
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jmac It is done: https://metacpan.org/release/JMAC/Web-Mention-0.703 thanks, y'all
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jmac (More to the point: https://metacpan.org/pod/release/JMAC/Web-Mention-0.703/lib/Web/Mention.pm#time_published)
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sknebel what is Indiewebkit
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Loqi IndieWebKit is a Swift library that provides client APIs for interacting with IndieAuth, Micropub, and Microsub from apps in the Apple ecosystem https://indieweb.org/IndieWebKit
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sknebel !tell eddie do you by chance know if the APIs Indiewebkit is using are Apple-device specific or part of Swift's "standard library"? (Also, are you doing bits that need HTML parsing yet in it?)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel re #chat - seeing a reply-context being the highest search result for something I now wonder if search engines consider reply contexts as "bad" duplicate content
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sebsel for context: DuckDuckGo shows https://aaronparecki.com/2019/06/20/3/, which is a like of [eddie]'s post by aaronpk, higher than the original post.
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sebsel on the search term 'indiewebkit'.
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sebsel but: I actually don't see the original at all.
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sebsel So in that case the reply context is actually the best hit.
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sknebel yes!
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sebsel checks [eddie]'s robots.txt but there is none
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sknebel (which also sort-of answers for me "should I consider robots excludes for likes, that do contain no text of my own" - probably not, since a like is a high-quality signal here)
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[grantcodes] Hmm that's quite an interesting problem
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[grantcodes] Usually seo wise I've only seen for direct copies of another URL you should set the canonical rel
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sknebel yes, that's not the same. and I don't know if it is a problem (even if we assume we care about search engine ranking, which I assume different people here have different opinions about)
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[grantcodes] But I'm not sure what you're meant to do when it's partially your content and partially someone else's content
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chrisaldrich I was just looking at an example of something closely related myself and writing about it. Should we be including rel="canonical" on reposts?
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chrisaldrich There's nothing on /repost except for a tangential mention of "canonical" in a section I wrote quite a while back....
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sknebel oh, reposts are even more on the line I guess. still, not quite IMHO
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chrisaldrich The example I was looking at was an academic one with the following to posts, one of which doesn't even indicate it's a repost of the other: https://techbar.crnooyen.knight.domains/blog/what-having-a-domain-for-a-year-has-taught-me/ and http://openlearnerpatchbook.org/technology/patch-twenty-five-my-domain-my-place-to-grow/
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sebsel for a repost, "canonical" would make sense, but a like is really a new post.
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chrisaldrich I still need to write about the experience, but I got a takedown request a few weeks back for a repost of a magazine article...
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sebsel a repost, so, you where not the original author?
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chrisaldrich perhaps if it's a like, favorite, or related type of post in which the entirety of the context is quoted, a rel-canonical should be appropriate nested on the original URL?
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GWG I never figured out how to display Reposts
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sebsel I believe I still do this: https://seblog.nl/2017/02/16/2/day-32-new-repost-policy (did not change code)
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chrisaldrich No, there was an original author and I simply reposted it, though I did have a rel-canonical on the entire page...
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sebsel So only giving the first 50 words.
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sebsel I never really repost though.
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chrisaldrich Part of question for reposts is how do search engines treat these reposts? I'd hate for my SEO to accidentally swamp out that of an original by accident...
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sebsel ah, seems like I changed my mind a couple days later... ++ for self mentioning https://seblog.nl/2017/03/03/4/day-40-reverting-repost-changes
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sebsel But still: I just stopped reposting after this 'incident'. It does not make sense to me outside of Twitter.
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chrisaldrich For a long time I was reposting all the content so I could see it on my back end and those visiting the public page were redirected back to the original, but that caused other problems....
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chrisaldrich Outside of Twitter, most of my reposts are done simply so I have an archival copy of a think on my own website.
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chrisaldrich Other things I might repost are just done as bookmarks, likes, favorites with a ping of the original URL to archive.org to back it up on my behalf.
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chrisaldrich s/think/thing
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sebsel That where I use likes for, at least on Instagram... I know my site downloads a copy of the image for private use (while I don't show it).
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sebsel If it's properly microformatted, my site will add the post-body too.
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chrisaldrich has a new itch now ^^
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sebsel it's as easy as just saving the result from XRay ;)
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GWG chrisaldrich, how is your site doing?
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chrisaldrich It's generally alright at the moment. I need to do some tweaks to add back h-feed to my theme and still need to update Post Kinds.
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chrisaldrich I also need to get my host to respect some headers that they're dropping that prevent the IndieAuth pieces from working so I can update Micropub and Microsub working properly.
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chrisaldrich With some luck I'll have at least half of it done before Thursday night. :)
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GWG chrisaldrich, I am looking forward to getting you current
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GWG This is incumbent on the President
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GWG That and collecting dues and organizing GWGCon
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Zegnat starts thinking about GWGCon EU
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sebsel looks for flights
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GWG Zegnat, are you running for VP?
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Zegnat GWG, no, that means I run the risk of having to fill your shoes, which I would never be able to do ;)
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sknebel Zegnat: VP of the fanclub, not VP of being GWG :D
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Zegnat Ooo, that I may be able to manage
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Zegnat This isn’t really #dev though, so I am going to shut up now
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GWG I joke in all rooms
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[eddie] !tell sknebel MOST of them are the standard library but unfortunately some is definitely Apple specific. My goal is probably for 1.0 to be Apple only, but I would like to either make 2.0 support Linux or make it a sibling package. Not sure 100% .
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [eddie]: sknebel left you a message 2 hours, 29 minutes ago: do you by chance know if the APIs Indiewebkit is using are Apple-device specific or part of Swift's "standard library"? (Also, are you doing bits that need HTML parsing yet in it?)
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sknebel [eddie]++
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Loqi [eddie] has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (103 in all channels)
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[eddie] !tell sknebel there are some tricky things like OAuth 2.0 Apple requires an Apple specific framework, so for IndieAuth, I’ll have to look and see if there is a way to say “on Apple do this, on Linux do that”
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel oh interesting that OAuth has special handling
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aaronpk do you mean the in-app browser thing?
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sknebel does the OS take care of things like showing the webview etc for that?
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sknebel (which I guess makes sense to have, preventing the app from stealing credentials out of the webview?)
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aaronpk yeah iOS provides a special browser that launches inside the app and shares cookies with the main Safari and can't be inspected by the app
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aaronpk whereas a webview is just an HTML rendering container that the app has control over
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[eddie] Yeah it’s about privacy and cookies
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[eddie] They also don’t want you to even kick them out to Safari, because I tried to do that with Indiepaper for iOS and they even said I couldn’t kick the user out to Safari.
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aaronpk "they said"... like in the app store review?
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[eddie] Yep
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[eddie] As in it got rejected until I resubmit with the ASWebAuthenticationSession
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[eddie] which is their built in OAuth handler
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[eddie] But with IndieWebKit almost finished, I’ll be able to submit Indiepaper for iOS this fall won’t iOS 13!
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[eddie] Oops typo. “With iOS 13”
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aaronpk cool, i'm glad they're actually checking for that now!
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GWG cleverdevil's microformats confuse my system.
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GWG Weather is a comment.
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GWG I need to pick his brain
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aaronpk I think that’s cause it was the easiest way to do that in Known (or really any other site) because it doesn’t rely on the site supporting weather information natively, it just adds it as a comment