[tantek]Flatter is better. For publishers and consumers. Excess hierarchy and layers of abstraction typically make extra work for everyone with very little benefit.
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LoqiBlock is a feature on many silos that provides the ability for one user to "block" or prevent interactions from another user https://indieweb.org/block
cweiskewithout knowing what you're talking about: I'd expect "mute" to hide entries in the list I'm seeing, while "block" should prevent them reaching my database at all
Loqi[cweiske] without knowing what you're talking about: I'd expect "mute" to hide entries in the list I'm seeing, while "block" should prevent them reaching my database at all
Loqi[cweiske] without knowing what you're talking about: I'd expect "mute" to hide entries in the list I'm seeing, while "block" should prevent them reaching my database at all
vika_nezrimayaIn context of check-ins, how could you refer to a specific Burger King (e.g. in Passage mall on Moskovskaya st. in Penza - the city where I live)? Something like <div class="h-card" id="passage-mall" /> and then doing https://fireburn.ru/hcards/burger-king#passage-mall?
ZegnatAnd that Passage Mall h-card could be nested in a p-location of the big Burger King h-card, like I did in my example with the Burger King in Gothenburg Central Station
[Lewis_Cowles]NP, I’m a little unsure if the approach I commented in review to another PR on the repo should be put into my own contribution (have config with fallback to ENV in-situ to helper)
@qubyte↩️ Ditto. I wrote a little static site generator, and as time has passed I've added some #indieweb stuff like microformats and webmentions. No stats or tracking, and no comments. Just plain old HTML and CSS with a dash of JS for a service worker. It's a lot of fun! (twitter.com/_/status/1171080962408624128)
benharri, vika_nezrimaya, [dougbeal], ntsrtoh^, jjuran_, [snarfed], gRegorLove, [tantek], [schmarty], KartikPrabhu, gxt, krychu, [jgmac1106] and t-mo joined the channel; ritewhoseDiscord left the channel
jackyyo so re: `action=search` for microsub; there's this note: "The server may also return feeds that are already known that match the search term, for example if another user on the server has previously subscribed to a matching URL."
jackyyo so re: `action=search` for microsub; there's this note: "The server may also return feeds that are already known that match the search term, for example if another user on the server has previously subscribed to a matching URL."
aaronpkalso the entire feed reading industry *really* needs a better solution to private feeds other than a "secret" URL that you just cross your fingers doesn't get shared around but that's a different story
[fluffy][aaronpk] yeah I’m not a fan at all of secret/“unguessable” feed URLs, which is why I’ve put off actually implementing that in Publ. Right now you *can* subscribe to private/hidden content on it if your feed reader supports a cookie jar though
[fluffy]but getting folks on board with that is gonna be hard. Major chicken-and-egg situation combined with how scattered and fragmented the RSS ecosystem is right now.
[fluffy]and the reader side of things feels really overwhelming with microsub et al, so if there’s a partial solution taht doesn’t require going whole-hog indieweb that would be really beneficial
aaronpkas soon as you want to have different things interoperate, you lose control over various parts of the stack, and now you have to get them to coordinate
[fluffy]he keeps on having reasons it won’t work, using my blog as an example, when it actually works really well on my blog? it’s just that he is too stubborn to, like, accept cookies for some reaosn
[fluffy]he doesn’t like the emailed magic link because it’s “too slow” but he doesn’t like twitter/facebook/etc. auth because he seems to think that I’m saying that simply *having* a twitter/facebook/etc. account will grant access, and lacks imagination to understand how ACLs work 😛
[fluffy]he “understands” username-password stuff, but doesn’t actually understand how to do it well or what goes into making it work well and all the parts you have to implement
[fluffy]He comes from a very old-school background in terms of dev stuff and just learned, like, a minimal amount of how to make the one thing he wanted to build work back in 1999, and has been stuck there ever since
aaronpkso someone can absolutely create a nice service that provides indieauth URLs people can use to sign in to stuff and view private content or whatever
aaronpkwhich is exactly what we're seeing with mastodon, where someone signs up for an account, starts using that account to follow people, then the instance shuts down, and they lose their account
aaronpkI do think it's better to have many small clusters of users even if those clusters frequently shut down compared to one giant pile of twitter identities
aaronpkthis is also why you don't see me creating services that provide storage or identities, just services for doing things in transit like webmention sending and receiving
[fluffy]and most of the folks I’d like to grant access to my blog wouldn’t want to have to sign up to Yet Another Profile Service to use it. If Mastodon were to support IndieAuth, though, that’d solve that problem.
Loqi[aaronpk] I totally understand not wanting to promise that Bridgy will keep all past webmentions. I think keeping Bridgy as a transport tool is good, and leave those kinds of promises for things like webmention.io which are specifically built to store all your...
[fluffy]but in any case the vast majority of folks are fine with using mastodon as their way of identifying themselves to me for access control purposes
[fluffy]Separating concerns to the point of overabstraction makes it difficult to actually move forward on having a solution that anyone wants to use though
[snarfed]sure! and i get that you have a complete picture of your and your users' desires and situations in your head. most of us here definitely don't though. so it helps us a bit.
[fluffy]That’s one of the issues I have with the indieweb approach in general, where like yeah you CAN put together all these lego pieces, but getting from point A to point B becomes a twisty maze of passages, all different, and gets hard to get folks on board when all they want to do is follow their friends
[fluffy]which is why I like the idea of a profile/identity provider that just sets this stuff up for you, where you can override things as you decide to
[fluffy]wordpress has a pretty decent story for getting into indieweb stuff, but it still requires the wherewithal for someone to run their own website
[snarfed]wp.com works great, you can run the indieweb plugins, just costs money. or you can do https://brid.gy/about#blogs for free, it's just not quite as pretty
[fluffy]or any sort of thing that people are using as a “here is my identity” thing, getting that on board with “hey let me add in these rel links to my profile page” stuff
beko[m]That is true. I talked to a lot of Joes over the last days. It's always the same. 1.) website costs. 2.) I'm very bad with computers. That's usualyl 2 reasons because of comfort zone.
[fluffy]I’m thinking that hosting-wise it can be even more basic though, like no need to have even the means of publishing updates or subscribing natively
[KevinMarks]but the URLs were fugly, so people assumed they were 'private' despite being linked on their profiles (people didn't look at profiles closely)
[fluffy]A thing I was considering if I do implement it is make it so that the individual private items only get the title and link, so even if a private feed URL leaks, random people don’t get the actual private content
[fluffy]one of the things I was trying to propose earlier for this stuff is having metadata in an Atom feed that says “hey if you’re gonna share an item, share it with this feed URL” and having entries get markup that say “hey this is a private item, don’t share it.” Still requires trust from readers, though, and it’s a graceful-degradation case that still hecks up bad for things that don’t support it.
[KevinMarks]but others who had been using stars for bookmarking and shares for research with colleagues etc got really stressed because we had leaked their thoughts to followers
[fluffy]just checked the source (ba-dum-tish), yeah it’s definitely just mirroring its own subscription URI rather than peeking into the feed’s metadata
aaronpki don't really *like* that most things seem to require full second-precision, but most of the time i don't want to write code to deal with it correctly, because date math is hard
sknebelthe trick with the error aaronpk saw in chrome is that chrome asks for the signed exchange format google is proposing now as one of the things it supports
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "muting" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "muting is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[Lewis_Cowles] [aaronpk] any chance you’ll be getting to https://github.com/aaronpk/indielogin.com/pull/43 soon? I have a growing list of follow up / other PR’s I wouldn’t mind contributing.
Zegnat vika_nezrimaya: something like this, I guess, is theoretically correct? http://php.microformats.io/?id=20190909105338049
[jgmac1106] Make it easy on yourself. Don't go to Burger King of McDonalds
@qubyte ↩️ Ditto. I wrote a little static site generator, and as time has passed I've added some #indieweb stuff like microformats and webmentions. No stats or tracking, and no comments. Just plain old HTML and CSS with a dash of JS for a service worker. It's a lot of fun! (twitter.com/_/status/1171080962408624128)
@0xADADA ↩️ You should setup webmention! I set up my site (GitHub pages/Cloudflare) to accept webmentions this past weekend. yay #indieweb !
https://indieweb.org/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1171160508784881664)
[fluffy] so now I have https://commentpara.de/user/102.htm
[KevinMarks] mastodon is close, but they keep resisting the stuff that would help like 301 redirects
aaronpk whoa i can't visit https://v2.jacky.wtf right now