#dev 2019-10-06

2019-10-06 UTC
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@StatsWiki [[ webmentions ]] https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1180684394438242305)
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sebsel re protected/private: I was also thinking about this in the context of hosting IndieWeb stuff for other people
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sebsel I can’t really claim ‘private’ as being only the user and the ones in the audience/list, I see no good way to encrypt that
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sebsel so you have to trust the server and it’s security for it to be ‘private’
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sebsel ‘protected’ is less of a claim in that way
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sebsel which also hooks into the question of a session yesterday: why publish?
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sebsel if it’s truely private, don’t publish it. tell someone over an encrypten channel or in person.
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sebsel *need to work on my English spelling
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[jgmac1106] it is fine, congrats on being poly lingual
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[jgmac1106] In English the -tion suffix turns verbs into nouns. So encrypt becomes encryption. I need to get better at my spelling
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[jgmac1106] 26 letters , 44 phonemens, and over 500 spelling combinations, a language of the conquered that spread by becoming the conquerer
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[jgmac1106] ....okay back to dev chat, I removed all my file extensions but now I cant access directories that had no file extesions like /music and /readings
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[jgmac1106] anyone have any idea how I can write the regex in htaccess to be able to access these
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jgmac1106[m] Whomever was talking about jukeboxes of anyone knows of good tutorials for building and/or using a media player on your site would love links
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[Lewis_Cowles] [jgmac1106] not exactly a jukebox, but https://github.com/Lewiscowles1986/webamp was interesting take on bringing a project from early 00's which was windows only back to life
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[Lewis_Cowles] the MDN docs were a godsend. Sadly I am not particularly interested in making it more robust or adding playlists etc
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[Lewis_Cowles] [jgmac1106] what did you do to your .htaccess?
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[Lewis_Cowles] it sounds like it's missing options to first defer to existing files
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[jgmac1106] Cool will check it out https://github.com/jgmac1106/homepage/blob/master/.htaccess
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[jgmac1106] Yeah moat of the jukebox like code starts to really dry up 2013 with rise of streaming
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[jgmac1106] Funny I am trying to access https://jgregorymcverry.com/music
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[Lewis_Cowles] `RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f` should prevent .htaccess from overwriting files which exist `RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d` should ensure your existing directories are good
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[Lewis_Cowles] been a while since I poked at the bear that is apache
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[jgmac1106] Perfect thx, yeah Dymitri was showing some comparable hosts and ways to deploy sites using Go. May try to deploy a basic website that way today
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[jgmac1106] I used to be able to check https://archive.jgregorymcverry.com before a page 404d but couldn't get it all to work
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] a post
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[jgmac1106] So instead Been trying to export WP site using WP2Static but it fails every time
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[Lewis_Cowles] oh, there are ways, but it can get hairy depending on your setup
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[jgmac1106] Yeah and I find there can be Apache stuff above me at shares host that messes me up... Maybe... I dunno... Just cutting and pasting my way to glory
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[jgmac1106] Learning a bit of regex on the way
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[jgmac1106] Was able to accomplish either but not both, remove file extensions or redirect to archive. Thx dor -d tip. Really wanna download music (well ftpd it already but /readings more critical
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[jgmac1106] for*
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[Lewis_Cowles] I generally treat problem sites as output HTML, CSS, JS + binary assets
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[Lewis_Cowles] * If that won't work I proxy via PHP + CURL, so that I can use JS to AJAX read and parse the pages same-domain
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[Lewis_Cowles] * I start spidering using wget https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/downloading-entire-web-site-wget
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[Lewis_Cowles] Regex is cool, and browsers may use it under the hood, but IMO using CSS selectors allows me to leverage browser inspector tools for a faster feedback cycle.
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[Lewis_Cowles] * If that still won't work, browser addon to slurp things
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[jgmac1106] Ohh cool will try that. The plugin would havr been nice as it edits all your URIs.... Why I have an archive... Because migration is hard
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[Lewis_Cowles] `wget` or `scp -r` would allow you to simply move it, `sed`, might let you regex to rewrite / extract / strip things. I suppose what are your goals for the archive?
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[Lewis_Cowles] because uri rewrites can use `wp-cli`
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sknebel [snarfed]: that page seems to have CSS rule that sets the image tags to visibility:none if no JS is detected, which is kind of odd
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sknebel : /* If html does not have either class, do not show lazy loaded images. */ html:not( .jetpack-lazy-images-js-enabled ):not( .js ) .jetpack-lazy-image { display: none;
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sknebel (but I might misunderstand what that does)
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sknebel (it would make sense if there was a lazy image tag and a default image tag, but there doesn't seem to be)
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[snarfed] sknebel: interesting, thanks! i expect that's jetpack's lazy load images feature, which i use. still don't understand why images on other pages are ok though. 🤷
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[snarfed] https://jetpack.com/support/lazy-images/
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Loqi Lazy Images makes pages load much faster by only loading visible images, waiting to load images that are offscreen as you scroll down. In an effort to improve and optimize your site’s loading time, Lazy Images provides a significant benefit in page...
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sknebel I see the same on other pages
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[tantek] that's not lazy load, that's failzy load 😛
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[snarfed] lol
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[snarfed] https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/issues/12512
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Loqi [snarfed] #12512 Lazy loading: use new HTML `loading` attribute (eventually)
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[snarfed] trade you requests tantek, pls push that new attr through and i'll fix my site 😎
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sknebel ah, on other pages it might be the way with which ublock disables scripts
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[tantek] starts digging into that rabbithole
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sknebel there you have <noscript> tags with plain images
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sknebel but the images on https://snarfed.org/homebrew-website-club-2nd-anniversary-plaques don't have that
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[snarfed] oh god please no, it's IWC hack day, don't do this, work on your sites instead!!!
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sknebel (problem with many script blockers is that, as far as I can understand, they do not have a reliable way of making sure <noscript> tags are triggered, so your page acts more like it scripts failed to load)
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[snarfed] ah memories https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/1082354931607121925
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@schnarfed @waldojaquith @tmcw thanks for the article!...but you can definitely do lazy loading without requiring JS by just putting normal <img>s inside <noscript>. @jetpack does that, i expect other libs too. works great on eg my site https://snarfed.org/. cc @nelson (twitter.com/_/status/1082354931607121925)
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Zegnat sknebel, aah, yeah, I read about <noscript> being a problem. uMatrix has some sort of “spoofing” functionality to try and reenable them. But from what I understood it was not at all straight forward to implement
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[tantek] snarfed, lazy loading feature details still being worked out (though actively!) https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/3752 so it's not quite ready for implementation and therefore use
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Loqi [bengreenstein] #3752 Lazyload images and iframes
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[tantek] ugh worse it's underspecified with critical feedback in that pull request, however Chrome is "shipping" some approximate implementation (without actually defining the details as requested in #3752). Mozilla pushback on that is here: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/151
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Loqi [bzbarsky] #151 Lazy loading
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[tantek] [snarfed] on my part I will take up driving that side of the issue (#151) from the Mozilla perspective to try to get a properly defined spec that we and other browsers (besides Chrome) can actually implement
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[tantek] exiting rabbithole
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[snarfed] awesome, thank you [tantek]! and now please deprioritize for today at least and work on falcon 😁
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[tantek] thanks [snarfed] will do! did you have any particular suggestions from those lists? /Falcon#Working_On and /Falcon#Itches ?
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[snarfed] always responses display
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[snarfed] (and i know, moderation 😁)
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[tantek] ok will see if there is some minimally scoped way to incrementally display more responses info
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[tantek] appreciate your optimistic persistence [snarfed] (it's a good vote of confidence too)
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[snarfed] aww welcome! warm fuzzies
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[jgmac1106] PHP friends, found this: https://www.open-source-web.com/seo/fix-canonical-url-with-link-relcanonical-in-php/ does it look like it still works article is old, will change to https://
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[jgmac1106] found this too: https://www.scriptol.com/scripts/canonical.php
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[jgmac1106] gonna try second ad see what happens
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[tonz] [tantek] worked on canonicals during IndieWebCamp Amsterdam
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[jgmac1106] yeah that's where I learned I did not have them
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Zegnat I do not understand the purpose of the first script
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Zegnat It seems to just make the canonical be whatever you put in the browser address bar. Which defeats the point, if your canonical is what is already there you do not need it.
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Zegnat What are you trying to accomplish, [jgmac1106]?
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[tonz] http https was [tantek]’s issue. Where old search results might point to the old http version, and then have canonical point to the https version. Not sure if I remember that correctly though
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Zegnat I think so. That and his canonical could be without the theme switcher URL query
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sknebel he also offers http and https in parallel
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Zegnat That is why I was asking what [jgmac1106] was trying to accomplish :) You really only need to define a canonical if the document is accessible on from multiple URLs and you need to tell something that they are all the same thing.
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[jgmac1106] yeah people who annotate articles and I syndicate to places so rel+canonical would make sure all annotations no matter the copy
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[jgmac1106] end up on the original source
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[jgmac1106] okay will just type them by hand, easier
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Zegnat I don’t follow. Are you saying you would publish something on your site that is an exact copy of another site? In that case, yes, a rel-canonical pointing to the other site is nice.
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Zegnat If you publish your own annotations, and you want those annotations to have their own URL (the page you publish them on), then the rel-canonical should not be pointing to an external thing.
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Zegnat Because they are not the same content. You have transformed the content on your end.
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[jgmac1106] the first case, I sometimes sydicate articles to school blog, used to do medium, all I am doing is taking </head> out of head.php and putting into template, then I can just write https://jgregorymcverry.comm/* rel=canonical
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[jgmac1106] thought maybe I could find a way to echo https://jgregorymcverry.com/this current file
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Zegnat “I sometimes sydicate articles to school blog” do you control the school blog? Sounds like you would want a rel-canonical on that side pointing to your original on your site
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Zegnat You only ever need to use rel-canonical to point the original canonical URL for something. There is (AFAIK) no value on doing that when you are already at the original URL. (E.g. there is no value in https://jgregorymcverry.com/article having a rel-canonical pointing at https://jgregorymcverry.com/article, you are already there.)
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[jgmac1106] ahh okay thx, by not doing something, I have finished one more thing...
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[jgmac1106] still gonna finish moving </head> out of the the file in case I want to add another stylesheet
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[jgmac1106] zegnat++ for the teaching
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Loqi zegnat has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (86 in all channels)
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GWG I'm trying to figure out how to adjust my sunrise and sunset values by estimated elevation
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GWG Definitely a bit geeky.
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GWG Let's see, radius of earth divided by radius + elevation / 1000
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GWG aaronpk: You around? You are a location person...did you spend much time thinking about elevation adjusted sunrise and sunset?
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aaronpk I'm a big fan of outsourcing that kind of thing to APIs or libraries
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GWG aaronpk: PHP calculates sunrise and sunset, but does not adjust for elevation
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GWG I think I found a function to do it though
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aaronpk I doubt it makes much difference
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GWG Because I am storing elevation
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GWG aaronpk: It might adjust sunrise or sunset by up to 2 minutes
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aaronpk Does that matter? It's not like sunrise is a specifically timed event anyway
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GWG aaronpk: Surprisingly, yes
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[tantek] it is, however does it count from when part of the sun first crests line-of-sight, or when the entire disc of the sun has crested line-of-sight?
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[tantek] [snarfed] sorry to say but all the even minimal showing of more responses is going to take more design and coding than I have time for on an IndieWebCamp hack day
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[tantek] so I'm back to going through https://indieweb.org/Falcon#Working_On to find something doable & demoable
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[tantek] hmm maybe I could some design work for invitations for events
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aaronpk I guess the question is what are you actually doing with this data?
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aaronpk because the only thing I've done with sunrise/sunset is turning on lights or controlling blinds and if those are a few minutes off nobody can tell because sunrise doesn't mean the sky is suddenly bright
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GWG aaronpk: I need to write a blog post of explanation. Specifically, it involves my site changing behavior.
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[dmitshur] Hey [aaronpk]. I'm working on IndieAuth-related things on my site. It's currently using github as the only login provider, and I want to try using indielogin.com instead as the first step to let people sign in via their websites (future work would be to implement indieauth more directly on my site, but that's more work). I heard from [schmarty] I should let you know and maybe you need to add my domain to an include-list or something, is that
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[dmitshur] right? Or can I just start using it?
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[schmarty] haha more for aaronpk: tmiller has tiaramiller.com working with rel=me auth for github (verified on indieauth.com), but indielogin.com says it can't find any way to authorize. does indielogin.com not fall back to rel=me?
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[dmitshur] @shmarty I don't see any rel=me entries at view-source:https://tiaramiller.com/
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[dmitshur] @schmarty ^
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[schmarty] rel="noopener me"
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[schmarty] indieauth.com likes them!
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[schmarty] i think indielogin.com has a cached version or tiaramiller.com OR maybe has stale DNS info?
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[dmitshur] ah okay, I see them now.
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sknebel I don't think it caches
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sknebel <insert predictable rant about that tools that do not expose debug info here>
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[schmarty] hehe
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[Lewis_Cowles] I have seen no caching in the code. It uses Twitter & GitHub for oauth. Perhaps because a lot of sites don't make rel="me" 😞 LinkedIn had my exact URL but using the tool from the wiki I found it, dribbble, etc don't make attempts. I am going to talk to work about rel="me" on public social links
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[Lewis_Cowles] we support a free-form website too
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[Lewis_Cowles] PGP, IndieAuth & Email are also in providers folder so perhaps they are also all auth methods?
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[Lewis_Cowles] https://github.com/aaronpk/indielogin.com/tree/master/app/Provider
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Zegnat Hmm, from a cursory glance it should work. indielogin uses the PHP mf2 parser to get at the rel="me" values, and php.microformats.io has no problem parsing tiaramiler.com’s HTML
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Zegnat ... given you spell her name right
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[schmarty] heh
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[schmarty] she recently changed DNS providers / info and the previous DNS servers had really high TTL.
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[aaronpk] Sounds like dns issue then? There's not much more I can make it say other than they're not found in that case.
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[aaronpk] I mean I guess I could make it show you the TTL of the DNS records it looked up but that seems marginally helpful at best
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[aaronpk] It doesn't cache, so there's no info I can make it say about caching
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[tantek] ok looks like I'm back on figuring out h-event markup for attendees and invitations
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[tantek] since I want to add that to the tweet POSSE copy of my events per https://indieweb.org/event#Tantek_POSSE_to_Twitter
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[dmitshur] I think I see the part where I may need to bug Aaron. It's to add a client ID value. I see other people have been doing it via github issues, should I do the same? https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieLogin.com/issues?q=client_id
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[dmitshur] Or is there an existing one I can use for testing purposes?
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[aaronpk] You need to bug me, and make a case for why you can't host a copy of it yourself ;-)
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[aaronpk] I'm trying to avoid making a mess of it again like I did with IndieAuth.com
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[dmitshur] I've just learned that from Marty today.
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[dmitshur] My case is simple: I just want to make progress towards implementing indie auth on my site, and doing it all at once feels like too much. I wanted to take a smaller step of re-using indielogin.com first. Once I get that working and clean up the code, I'll be closer to doing the rest to implement the /auth endpoint myself.
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[schmarty] dmitshur: you're specifically looking to let other people sign in to your site with their own domain, right?
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[dmitshur] so I only need this temporarily and/or for testing purposes. and to be able to finish this during the hack day of IndieWebCamp 2019 😄
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[dmitshur] [schmarty]: that is correct
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[dmitshur] e.g., I want you to be able to sign in to dmitri.shuralyov.com (or, dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com where I will test this out first) with your own domain, rather than forcing you to sign in via github as it currently does
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aaronpk ok!
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[dmitshur] i'll be adding a 2nd button "Sign in via IndieLogin.com" to https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/login
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aaronpk you should make it say "sign in with your domain"
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[dmitshur] sounds good.
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aaronpk ok those two client_ids are added
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[dmitshur] I'm still figuring out whether the form where users enter their URL will be hosted on my site or on indielogin.com.
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Loqi it is probable
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[dmitshur] Thank you Aaron!
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[dmitshur] I'm still seeing "This client_id is not registered"; did you add "https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/" as the client_id? is the change deployed?
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[dmitshur] or should there not be a trailing slash?
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aaronpk just fixed it to include the slash
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aaronpk shoudl be good now
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[dmitshur] no luck yet. I'm doing a `GET` on this URL: https://indielogin.com/auth?client_id=https%3A%2F%2Fdev.dmitri.shuralyov.com%2F&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fdev.dmitri.shuralyov.com%2Fcallback%2Findielogin&state=some-sample-state-for-testing and still seeing "This client_id is not registered"
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[tantek] anyone know if you can use a protocol-relative URL as your webmention endpoint?
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[tantek] e.g. <link rel="webmention" href="//webmention.io/tantek.com/webmention" />
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[tantek] I figure [aaronpk] knows this
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[tantek] maybe I'll just deploy it and see what happens
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[dmitshur] in what situation would you not want to use https?
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aaronpk [dmitshur]: i'm looking and i'm confused why this isn't working
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[tantek] dmitshur from your http website
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[tantek] I serve from both
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[tantek] the usual answer for when you would want to use protocol-relative URLs
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[fluffy] I would expect protocol relative endpoint URIs to be valid but for most consumers to break because nobody bothers to support them right.
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[tantek] Then I'm happy to be a test case 😈
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[fluffy] Pushl supports them though :)
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[fluffy] Or at least it should.
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[fluffy] I haven’t tested it.
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[fluffy] I did a whole bunch of work to make sure that protocol-relative targets work, anyway, although it requires the endpoint to be savvy to them and IIRC webmention.io isn’t.
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aaronpk oh right I moved this to the other server 😂
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aaronpk [dmitshur]: fixed :D
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[dmitshur] [aaronpk]: Thank you! Confirmed working \o/
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[Lewis_Cowles] [dmitshur] are you going to implement any golang tools? I noticed a link "idiomatic golang on your root host
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[dmitshur] my site is implemented in Go (source code is at https://github.com/shurcooL/home), so when this is done I'll push the finished results there. if it makes sense, I will factor out useful general functionality into a re-usable library.
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[dmitshur] for now I'm just implementing everything myself because I want to understand it better
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[Lewis_Cowles] ❤
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[Lewis_Cowles] I ask because there are two languages I want to make some services in. Erlang and Golang
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[Lewis_Cowles] I'm more experienced with golang, but it's not one of my main drivers
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[tantek] [snarfed] I did add something response related - all my events now have a "Send RSVP" form automatically generated that sends a webmention 🙂
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gRegorLove [tantek], I sent an RSVP via your new form
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gRegorLove and it worked! Sweet
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[tantek] Thanks gRegorLove! Glad it worked! It helps folks who just want to post a static RSVP html page
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[dmitshur] woohoo, a very early version of "Sign in via your domain" is working at https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/login 🎉
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[tantek] maybe I'll get more RSVPs now!
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[dmitshur] lots to do to clean it up and implement some security TODOs (like actually verifying the state, etc.) but it was very helpful to get a better understanding of indieauth. and more work to implement the /auth endpoint on my own site rather than using indielogin.com. but this is huge progress, I've wanted to do this for months
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[dmitshur] thanks Aaron and Marty for your help!
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aaronpk is starting on his own hack day project
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[schmarty] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 46 karma in this channel over the last year (182 in all channels)
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aaronpk I am attempting to add an option to syndicate my posts as foursquare tips
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GWG Oh?
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[jgmac1106] it is a bit late for demo: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1180967025994342400
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@jgmac1106 Trying to publish the first note from my own domain thanks to the inspiration of Nicole at IWC NYC (https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/2019-10-06#note1) (twitter.com/_/status/1180967025994342400)
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[jgmac1106] it was the ..in my php not moving up a director for header and footer,
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[Lewis_Cowles] [aaronpk] do you use Postman? https://developer.foursquare.com/docs/api/postman
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aaronpk ?
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aaronpk the foursquare api is not the hard part here :)
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aaronpk i'm making it so I can syndicate either: the text of my checkin becomes a tip, the text of a reply to a foursquare venue becomes a tip, or the text of a reply to one of my checkins becomes a tip
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GWG I am trying to figure out how my website should change at night
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aaronpk what is dark mode?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dark mode" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dark mode is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk dark mode is a feature of websites and apps that change the color scheme to be easier to read at night or in low light settings
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk dark mode << https://adactio.com/journal/15941
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Dark mode
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Loqi ok, I added "https://adactio.com/journal/15941" to a brand new "See Also" section of /dark_mode https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=65314&oldid=65313
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aaronpk there's some reading material for you :)
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GWG aaronpk, not sure... I just added detection...may leave it to the theme to decide what to do with it
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GWG I was thinking... 4 hours till sunset and such
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GWG I have some other ideas related to my behavior and time of day
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aaronpk woohoo I think it works!
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk \o/
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GWG aaronpk, I am running out of crazy time location and weather stuff to do
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aaronpk should free you up to do other things then right?
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GWG Maybe
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GWG I am trying not to flood pfefferle with PR requests for webmentions
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aaronpk late hack day project! https://aaronparecki.com/2019/10/06/20/foursquare
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Syndicating My Tips to Foursquare
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GWG Maybe Micropub