#dev 2019-10-31

2019-10-31 UTC
jeremycherfas, pierrebocDiscord, myfreeweb1, h2Discord[m], discord[m], CantiTurtleCoinD, benaszabDiscord[, AlekseyDiscord[m, M3baidDiscord[m4, hvergaraDiscord[, jwheelerDiscord[, fozzieDiscord[m], M}Discord[m], aaronpk[m], cwDiscord[m], johanherman[m], janttoDiscord[m], KubeDiscord[m], TryptophanDiscor, silent_ActivistD, AXEL-BrianDiscor, NatoBoramDiscord, gregjeanmartDisc, ddahlDiscord[m], r5723013Discord[, AxieDiscord[m], gozala[m], Clment[m], bengoDiscord[m], felixschlDiscor4, cwchristerwDisco, foxcoolDiscord[m, chmanieDiscord[m, buztedDiscord[m], LordFenixNCDisco, hubaDiscord[m], celsoDiscord[m]1, zcopleyDiscord[m, PamileissonDisco, cristobalDiscord, nijynotDiscord[m, ad87657Discord[m, hazDiscord[m], bushido711Discor, CarboClanCDiscor, M[AXEL]JulianDis, thatguyDiscord[m, tom85Discord[m], raulDiscord[m], leoalvarezhDisco, bekoDiscord[m], eshohetDiscord[m, nofwayyDiscord[m, test123Discord[m, cesarosumDiscord, aeddi[m], Kongaloosh, [chrisbergr] and SevenTwenty joined the channel
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aaronpk made some good progress on Shortcuts for posting photo albums to my site!
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aaronpk i have some photos from brighton i want to post but i'm trying to use this as an excuse to get my album posting workflow down
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[chrisbergr] Some days ago I thought about photo albums. One of my ideas was to post every image individually as photo post and than create an album like a collection of posts. So the album is just some other type containing only references. But I'm not sure if this is actually gonna be my way.
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aaronpk That's what I'm doing
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aaronpk it's how Flickr does it and I like that model
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[chrisbergr] Okay. if you combine this with tags, so that an album e.g. refers to a tag, the adding of additional photos would be super easy.
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aaronpk It's different than tags
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aaronpk Basically I'm trying to just copy Flickr here
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[chrisbergr] Yes, I guess I got what you're going for. In my thoughts I had considered either referencing the photo directly or a tag or a category. Or of course a combination of everything. But I'm still not sure if I really want to do it this way.
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aaronpk In my model the album is also a post, which happens to contain other posts which are photos
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[chrisbergr] Exactly the same. Only I would extend with: "other posts which are photos or other posts which are marked with the given tag"
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[chrisbergr] You got anything online yet?
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aaronpk i definitely don't want to use tags like that, it would be a giant mess
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aaronpk that's what my tag pages are for, being a giant mess of posts with a tag
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aaronpk my trip posts are using the same model of a post that contains other posts
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[fluffy] so yeah it looks like aperture doesn’t like me signing in as `https://beesbuzz.biz/` now
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Loqi fluffy
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[fluffy] got a big ol’ JSON blob with: “error_description”: “This token was issued to a different user”,
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[fluffy] I don’t actively use aperture except for testing some stuff so I’m fine with making a new user but… yikes?
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aaronpk that means the response aperture got when looking up the token at your token endpoint says it was issued to a different URL. i'm guessing because you logged in as http and your authorizaiton endpoint verifies it as http
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aaronpk this isn't aperture saying that your url changed, it's before that
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[fluffy] hmm
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[fluffy] if I sign in to aperture directly it gives me a different microsub endpoint URL
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[chrisbergr] Yeah, it almost looks like it's a little redundant because of tag archives. The idea was to be able to mix different tags and images that don't have the tag.
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[fluffy] when I was logging in as http it gave me /microsub/330, and when I log in as https it gives em /microsub/424
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aaronpk [chrisbergr]: yeah i'm treating albums as explicitly adding things to a list
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aaronpk [fluffy]: that means your authorization endpoint is returning two different identity URLs (http and https)
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[fluffy] except it isn’t
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[fluffy] https://gist.github.com/fluffy-critter/13be9cbb497a94beb161f0fe19ea99d2
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aaronpk this is from monocle?
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[fluffy] yeah
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aaronpk what URL did you type in to monocle?
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aaronpk and what microsub endpoint does your website link to?
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[fluffy] My IndieAuth endpoint used to coerce my `me` to http, and now I changed it to coerce to https. On aperture if I sign in it gives me 424 regardless of whether I use http or https.
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[fluffy] in monocle I typed https://beesbuzz.biz/ and my website links to 330.
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Loqi fluffy
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[chrisbergr] Aaron: I think you're on the right path 🙂
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[fluffy] but the same thing happens if I use http on monocle.
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aaronpk [fluffy]: so it sounds like aperture is doing the right thing and using the URL your website is currently reporting as the authoritative URL
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aaronpk and monocle is doing the right thing, looking up your microsub endpoint (which happens to be for the old URL), and correctly normalizing your URL to the https URL
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[fluffy] yes. It used to report http as the identity URL, now it reports https as the identity URL.
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aaronpk so you changed your identity URL
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[fluffy] yes.
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[fluffy] from http to https.
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aaronpk aperture does not handle account migration at all
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[fluffy] Right, I”m not surprised. I was just, like, verifying that this would be a problem.
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aaronpk i can fiddle it manually to switch them. your website will need to link to the new microsub endpoint too tho
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[fluffy] It’s not a huge deal for me right now, because I was only using aperture for test purposes and I don’t actually use IndieAuth for anything aside from signing into my own website right now 🙂
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[fluffy] Couldn’t the new endpoint be deleted and the old endpoint changed to point to the new URL?
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aaronpk yes that's what i mean by "I can fiddle it manually"
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[fluffy] Ah ok
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[fluffy] It’s just that you said I”d need to link to the new endpoint if you do that
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aaronpk oh sure. i can do it either way
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aaronpk i'm just not prepared to make a way to do that self-service though. there are too many implications of automating it.
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[fluffy] yeah 😕
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[fluffy] Mostly this is an interesting experiment to see if there’s a use case for, like, coming up with an auth migration protocol of some sort.
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[fluffy] like declaring an equivalence set somehow, but doing that safely is hard
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aaronpk there definitely is, but that's also something that has implications for each system that's consuming the identity and they each may want to handle it slightly differently
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[fluffy] yeah
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[fluffy] The way I opted to handle this in Publ is I can map multiple identities to be equivalent by just adding them as a group. It actually doesn’t distinguish between group names and usernames.
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[fluffy] but Publ also is solving a different set of permissions things than, say, Aperture.
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[fluffy] oh and that’s also why Twitter identities are in the form of twitter.com/username#userid - if someone changes their username I’d rather just manually update the username after verifying they’re the same person (based on userid), and I wouldn’t want someone to change usernames and then have someone else grab it and absorb their access.
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aaronpk heh clever
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[fluffy] Thanks, I thought so. It’s how I squared the circle of how twitter suggests that OAuth identities be mapped based on the twitter user ID but Authl really wants to map every identity to a URL. 🙂
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[fluffy] but Authl also doesn’t maintain “accounts” per se
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[fluffy] In an older design I was thinking I’d have a local account that people create and they could add multiple auth connections to it (like what Disqus does) but that seemed, like, hard. And also stateful. Two things I dislike. 🙂
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aaronpk yeah that gets weird too
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aaronpk some advantages, but some disadvantages
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@fluffy Publ: Development Blog: Publ 0.5.8, Authl 0.3.1, and IndieAuth security http://publ.beesbuzz.biz/blog/491-Publ-0-5-8-Authl-0-3-1-and-IndieAuth-security (twitter.com/_/status/1189728506315497472)
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[fluffy] i wish ifttt actually supported websub
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[grantcodes] [chrisbergr] see photo.postrchild.com for doing album posts exactly as you and aaronpk describe. There are a bunch of features your site needs to support for it to work though.
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[chrisbergr] [grantcodes] yes, this looks really good. But in my case I‘ll go with a mini WordPress plugin instead of Micropub
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[chrisbergr] Aaron: what will Happen with multi photo posts? Would you just ignore them (because you manually choose the images) or do you plan to include them?
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[grantcodes] Cool. Fwiw I also previously used tags to do it. I would have something like gallery-gallery-name and photos with gallery-gallery-name--photo to figure out where they belong
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[chrisbergr] Sounds like what I've been thinking about. But I do think that Aaron's point that tag archives would do the job is valid.
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[chrisbergr] Are your posts in https://grant.codes/category/gallery posted via postrchild PhotoPostr?
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[grantcodes] Yep
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[chrisbergr] And is it possible to access the images with their own post type photo kind of stuff url? e.g. just that funny NYPD car?
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[chrisbergr] Oh, yep it is 😄
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[chrisbergr] That works great, well done.
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@aswath ↩️ (8/13) Next let us consider user identity. In the SIP world, the identity is SIP URI. We are free to define in #WebRTC world. My advice is to use a web-based id mechanism - like OpenID, OAuth, IndieAuth or Web ID. (twitter.com/_/status/1189841395525324800)
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/opened19presentation
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fopened19presentation
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Loqi [J. Gregory McVerry] OpenEd19 Presentation "Opening the Syllabi in Higer Education
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Loqi [J. Gregory McVerry] OpenEd19 Presentation "Opening the Syllabi in Higer Education
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[jgmac1106] notes 3, 8 , 9 missing rel="canonical" really trying to nail down my design for threaded notes followed by a collection of everything in the thread
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[jgmac1106] is there a way to a link to a header to point to rel="alternate" for mf2 feeds that readers use now?
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[KevinMarks] [fluffy] you can link to the twitter intent by userid or username, and it has an hcard
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GWG I was thinking about tantek and aaronpk... specifically their comments at different times about delayed posts
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GWG I am wondering if you delay a post, should it say it? How should it appear, published date or post date?
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GWG If I delay one post by a day and post another immediately, which should show up first in a feed view?
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aaronpk My thought for delayed posts is it's more like a pause button on my feeds than anything else
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aaronpk after the delay is turned off I want it to look like they were never delayed
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GWG otherwise it would be a scheduled post, I suppose
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[KevinMarks] Hm, there's dt-published and dt-updated. Previously we've assumed that dt-updated >= dt-published for revisions; setting published in the future was a cue for a deferred post. Could you use updated for the edit time and pubished for the publish time, or do you want to hide that by making them the same?
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aaronpk I'm really thinking of this more as delayed feeds than delayed posts
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aaronpk Especially because I do want the posts to send webmentions immediately still
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[KevinMarks] ah, so it's not a post-level setting at all.
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aaronpk Yeah I want to enable and disable it sitewide
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[chrisbergr] I don't understand the concept of this delayed feed at all. What is the usecase?
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[KevinMarks] Avoiding providing real time location info
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[chrisbergr] Ok, and for the memory it makes sense to have the right time afterwards anyway.
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[KevinMarks] I just thought of a super lazy way to do html sanitization. Instead of putting the html inline, do <iframe sandbox srcdoc='{your html}' />
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[Evan_Travers] so I’ve been reading a bit… I do a monthly post where I mention and comment on stuff that I read during the month. It doesn’t seem like a single `h-entry` should have all the `in-reply-to` like I have been doing… how do I politely mention folks and include my comment? Do I really need to be making separate posts for each one? (bad example here… http://evantravers.com/articles/2019/10/31/books-and-links-october/)
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[snarfed] KevinMarks++ lol
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Loqi KevinMarks has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (45 in all channels)
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[snarfed] [Evan_Travers] just linking to (ie "mentioning") them is probably fine. in-reply-to is only for if you're writing a direct reply. sounds like this is a broad round-up post instead
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[Evan_Travers] snarfed ++
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Loqi snarfed has 52 karma in this channel over the last year (96 in all channels)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Yeah @withknown my all time favorite CMS to use as an alternative to an LMS, we are building a course builder plugin and working on a webmention and #Openbadges plugin as well (second a stretch goal...we will get there). (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/21jkAs) (twitter.com/_/status/1189946940894666753)
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@131Studios Testing Webmentions https://131studios.com/blog/testing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1189963398903205889)
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j4y_funabashi[m] Yay! I have just improved the location on my photos. I can now lookup the city, region and country when I add a photo
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Loqi 😃
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j4y_funabashi[m] Either manually by searching for the address, or automatically based on the lat/lng in the photo exit data :)
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j4y_funabashi[m] And it shows up under the photo https://jay.funabashi.co.uk/
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aaronpk Nice!
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j4y_funabashi[m] I have always saved the location of photos that have lat lng in the exif data as a geo URL so need to go back and geocode all those to human readable locations
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j4y_funabashi[m] But next step is to use foursquare to lookup venues as well
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aaronpk Ooh that's gonna be tough
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aaronpk doesn't work super wel in dense areas
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j4y_funabashi[m] Oh so the way it works at the moment is it geocodes the lat/lng and gives me a list to choose from before I post the photo
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j4y_funabashi[m] So I was thinking I can do the foursquare lookup after the geocode lookup and just add the venues to the list of choices
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GWG j4y_funabashi[m]: How do you save location in exif, workflow wise?
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aaronpk Ah cool
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j4y_funabashi[m] GWG my phone adds it automatically
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GWG Mine adds the location, but not any notes on it
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j4y_funabashi[m] Oh yeah my phone just adds the lat/lng then when I add the photo to a post in my admin UI the geocode lookup happens there
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j4y_funabashi[m] And for photos without geo exif data I have a search box
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j4y_funabashi[m] The majority of my 10+years of photos do not have geo data so this would be the normal workflow
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j4y_funabashi[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uGeRCHlArCsGwFWmhoRUiqUv >
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j4y_funabashi[m] Oops too long for irc
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j4y_funabashi[m] 1 import photos from SD card to media server
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j4y_funabashi[m] 2 add one or more photos to a post
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j4y_funabashi[m] 3 Search for and add location
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j4y_funabashi[m] 4 publish!
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GWG j4y_funabashi[m]: So you store the data in exif on loading into the admin ui or you store it in the post?
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j4y_funabashi[m] But when a photo has exif location I can skip the search for location part
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j4y_funabashi[m] GWG: I extract the exif location when I add the photo to my media server
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j4y_funabashi[m] Then I store it in the post when I publish
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[snarfed] (continued from #indieweb): i unfollowed everyone on twitter by downloading my archive, then: grep accountId following.js | cut '-d"' -f4 | xargs -n 1 -I %% twurl /1.1/friendships/destroy.json -d user_id=%%
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j4y_funabashi[m] GWG: does that make sense?
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GWG Yes, so same as me
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j4y_funabashi[m] Cool
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j4y_funabashi[m] GWG: do you do venue lookup as well as geocode?
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[fluffy] [KevinMarks] the intent based link might be better but this is for the purpose of a user ID for auth purposes and needs to be short and reasonably humane. At some point I might add a better user ID system to Authl but I wanted to keep it simple.
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[fluffy] Go to beesbuzz.biz/blog and try logging in under a number of different identities to see what I mean.
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[fluffy] It just presents the login identity URL as the username and that’s what the site owner used in granting permission.
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[fluffy] *uses
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[fluffy] At some point I will probably switch to a pure numeric ID when I find the right docs on that, but only after I get around to passing along more profile information to Publ.
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GWG j4y_funabashi[m]: Not at this time
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[fluffy] [Evan_Travers] FWIW I used to do the in-reply-to en-masse thing as well because I was similarly confused about its semantics. 🙂 I feel like there needs to be a quickstart guide that explains what the various microformats are intended for and maybe how it should affect other aspects of presentation, or at least analogies to what it’s intended to be.
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[fluffy] like after I understood that in-reply-to is literally intended to be like Twitter replies, where it appears only as a single direct reply to the recipient and not on my default public feed, it made a lot more sense.
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[jgmac1106] On my homepage I have an h-feed of my three latest articles. I was wondering how to encourage discovery of the full article feed
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[jgmac1106] Folks see any problem adding an h-entry that just points to the full h-feed?
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[fluffy] I think the suggested approach is <link rel=“feed”>
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KartikPrabhu yes, bridgy uses rel-feed
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gRegorLove Unless you're posting more than 3 articles in a short timeframe, the experience will be the same from a reader perspective, so subscribing to the homepage could work
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gRegorLove Exception being on initial subscription, I guess; if you prefer that to show say, 10 articles
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[tantek] [fluffy] the meta lesson there is: be lazy. More specifically, no markup without a *specific* intended purpose. If you can't define that specific purpose, then don't add the markup. No "just to in general do the right thing" because you're likely doing the wrong thing and just don't know it.
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[fluffy] yeah, absolutely
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[tantek] This go against e.g. Google/SEO advice which is usually along the lines of "Schema all the things! We (Google) might find it handy in the future, so you (web dev) please do the work for us always even if we don't promise you anything!"
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[tantek] Also SEO advice to "meta tag all the things! somebody somewhere might still use it and might still help your SEO on some search engine somewhere so publish all the metacrap!"
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[tantek] You have to stand up and say NO
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[tantek] we've had similar problems with people doing "u-photo all the images!"
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[tantek] without actually asking why or having a specific intended impact / effect
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[jgmac1106] Ohh good point gRegorLove. I specifically don't do "articles" that often.... Though a distinction between "blog post" is only in my head