#dev 2019-11-20
2019-11-20 UTC
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# 
jacky alternative to ngrok for those interested https://github.com/inlets/inlets
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# 
[LewisCowles] microformats ui libraries for those needing / wanting a framework
# 
KartikPrabhu [LewisCowles]: what do you mean by microformats UI?
# [LewisCowles] So a set of HTML + CSS maybe JS suggestions for newcomers, graphically challenged peoples or those looking for a stable base
# [LewisCowles] UI library would be the key thing. UI on it’s own doesn’t make as much sense. Just not sure on hyphenating initialism
# KartikPrabhu still not sure what you mean. microformats is a way to parse HTML into a "nice" JSON (or other format). I am confused as to what a UI library does
# [LewisCowles] well there are two sides to it, parsing and marking up
# KartikPrabhu for parsing there are a bunch of mf2 parsers
# [LewisCowles] you need things to be marked up in order to parse mf2, otherwise you’re simply parsing or scraping noise\
# [LewisCowles] Right but this isn’t about parsers because HTML + CSS alone are not generally used for parsing
# KartikPrabhu in mf2 they are
# KartikPrabhu in fact no CSS even
# [LewisCowles] OMG oplease show me a html parser for mf2
# [LewisCowles] I’ sure you’re conflating the markup with the parser here
# [LewisCowles] and it’s really triggering that you’re not separating the two.
# [LewisCowles] That is not HTML, it’s PHP
# [LewisCowles] it reads HTML
# [LewisCowles] it is not written in HTML
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# KartikPrabhu I am trying to trigger. I don't understand the qeustion
# [LewisCowles] I can see that
# [LewisCowles] have you tried googling UI library?
# KartikPrabhu no. because a bunch of React stuff shows up
# [LewisCowles] right and those are also UI libraries
# [LewisCowles] it’s collections of HTML, CSS, optionally JS
# KartikPrabhu yes. to build websites that do something
# KartikPrabhu I want to know what it is that needs to be done
# KartikPrabhu as in what would this library do
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# [LewisCowles] I’m not sure it needs, to be done, but I was suggesting if GWG wants something to do, then creating patterns for people to assemble something like a h-entry might help people to understand using mf2 (the spec not a PHP library) on their site for crafting their content
# KartikPrabhu oops! sorry. I meant to say "I am *not* trying to trigger" . Sorry very late for me
# KartikPrabhu aahh I see now. like an UI for authoring mf2 markup
# [LewisCowles] absolutely, but not individual pieces like u-url
# [LewisCowles] they might have
# [LewisCowles] ```
# [LewisCowles] <article class="h-entry">
# [LewisCowles] <time class="post-date dt-published" datetime="2019-10-02">
# [LewisCowles] <span class="year">2019</span>-<span class="month">10</span>-<span class="day">02</span>
# [LewisCowles] <a class="p-name u-url" href="/blog/scalable-systems/">Scalable systems</a>
# [LewisCowles] </time>
# [LewisCowles] </article>
# [LewisCowles] ```
# KartikPrabhu yeah like some h-object
# KartikPrabhu ok cool. yes that would be great
# [LewisCowles] absolutely a number of them, to show people this is what you can do
# [LewisCowles] Btw I’m so glad of that clarification
# KartikPrabhu yeah. my bad. I didn't catch that typo :)
# KartikPrabhu really not trying to be contrarian for the sake of it
# [LewisCowles] not trying to trigger is better than trying, although my brain read it as trying to get to meaning, so thanks for sticking with me
# [LewisCowles] NP
# [LewisCowles] It really highlighted how echo-chamber-y my life must be
# KartikPrabhu but yes some tool where you click "create h-entry" and then "click add content" or "add author" would be neat
# [LewisCowles] I was thinking even simpler
# [LewisCowles] just. Here are some things you can do
# [LewisCowles] Here is what they look like
# [LewisCowles] here are their options
# [LewisCowles] this is the code to create them
# KartikPrabhu hmm yeah that is a nice idea for a tool for people who don't write HTML by hand
# [LewisCowles] the above is part borrowed from my friend and colleague Morgan site, then infused with microformats
# [LewisCowles] it’s decidedly minimalist
# [LewisCowles] but has some nice CSS for mobile
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# [LewisCowles] well I like it at least 😁
# KartikPrabhu [LewisCowles]++
# KartikPrabhu a simple start would be to be bare bones HTML + mf2
# KartikPrabhu then maybe add some classes+ CSS for simple display
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beko[m] <KartikPrabhu "but yes some tool where you clic"> You mean something like https://rxjs-dev.firebaseapp.com/operator-decision-tree ?
# KartikPrabhu almost like a visual HTML + CSS + mf2 micropub client ;)
# KartikPrabhu beko[m]: well I don't have any Observables yet ;)
# KartikPrabhu jacky: yes. If we have setep 0 then we can iterate
# KartikPrabhu beko[m]: I know. joke, haha joke ;)
# [LewisCowles] KartikPrabhu++
# KartikPrabhu but that is good idea to work on [LewisCowles]
# [LewisCowles] jacky css too
# KartikPrabhu jacky: yes it is but is scattered places
# KartikPrabhu a wiki is good for people who sort of kind of know how to find the right topics
# [LewisCowles] I sort of see the fact I don’t minify as one way for people to do. I try to really avoid being a designer
# [LewisCowles] so I suggested for beko 😁
# KartikPrabhu it is weirdly like a Gutenberg model, where you add ummm... blocks to blocks
# KartikPrabhu I only mean in terms of UI
# [LewisCowles] haha quite
# [LewisCowles] maybe without being so prescriptive about the way that is done
# KartikPrabhu yes
# [LewisCowles] pre-gutenberg I’d about 10 years basically saying to avoid what they did. I abandoned JS only editors in 2007
# [LewisCowles] screenshots are less helpful than HTML
# KartikPrabhu jacky: yes. but this goes beyond examples. It is sort of a UI guide to crreaitng it too
# [LewisCowles] as-in live markup
# KartikPrabhu yup^
# [LewisCowles] because then it’s interactive, and to channel tantek, it’s hypertext then
# KartikPrabhu yup
# [LewisCowles] I think wiki is cool for an audience
# KartikPrabhu wiki is more like documentation
# [LewisCowles] what is publics?
# 
Loqi publics are the combined set of people who make up the readership or audience of a post https://indieweb.org/publics
# KartikPrabhu hihi
# [LewisCowles] I have a tendency to retain that which is shown to me
# KartikPrabhu it is similar to how we have live sites with mf2 parsers on them. If you have a markup you can check those
# KartikPrabhu but if you want to author mf2 there is no such helpful tool
# KartikPrabhu there are examples scattered around both the indieweb wiki and the microformats wiki. but it does take an effort to figure it out if all you want to do is write some HTML + mf2
# beko[m] http://microformats.org/ and the wiki are a goldmine for devs, yeah.
# [LewisCowles] even if there were, adding the CSS dimension as an opinionated take
# [LewisCowles] on presenting
# KartikPrabhu one could yes
# [LewisCowles] its not about the data as-such
# KartikPrabhu and then have UI match those examples as a first try
# jacky like a h-feed from mf2+json could be rendered to something like https://tachyons.io/components/article-lists/title-preview-author-media/index.html
# KartikPrabhu really we should start with step 0. An authoring tool that just spits out HTML+mf2 markup in a <textarea>
# [LewisCowles] I wasn’t thinking of that at all
# KartikPrabhu authoring tool as in you don't write the HTML yourself
# [LewisCowles] more like getbootstrap.com for mf2
# KartikPrabhu but just cliky somethings to add data
# [LewisCowles] so side-bar where people can pick a component
# [LewisCowles] it would probably be higher-level than bootstrap alert
# [LewisCowles] but things like rating
# [LewisCowles] location
# KartikPrabhu oh! a design system type thing
# [LewisCowles] I also think themes and expo are lit AF
# [LewisCowles] design system is very similar to a UI library
# KartikPrabhu yup
# [LewisCowles] I believe a design system is more comprehensive
# [LewisCowles] and I’d like to steer away from that as it could be too rigid
# KartikPrabhu yeah I never got that terminology straigt in my head
# [LewisCowles] today I learned, I really care so much about certain groups of words. I’m sorry for that
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# KartikPrabhu we all do because of our experiences! not to worry. I am not a web-dev so I get confused about design library vs UI library
# KartikPrabhu I am happy to be corrected by people who know better
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# [intover_q] I have some private/personal Wordpress sites.
# [intover_q] The question was for my work related sites...
# 
jeremycherfas Whoa. Shoutout to jacky as you have just popped up for me in Uses This.
# [intover_q] What kind of dev questions would suite (be the focus) this channel?
# jeremycherfas Not ¯darn thing. Nada, zip, zilch.
# jeremycherfas I subscribe because once every so often I see a thing I could use. Like, I just took a look at your CODE keyboard, just to feed the buyers remorse about the other keyboard I ordered and that will be waiting for me when we visit family in the US for the holidays.
# jeremycherfas My Das keyboard is great. I really like it. But it also has semi-enclosed keys that accumulate shit. And the USB ports on it are becoming a bit flaky.
# KartikPrabhu ->> meta
# KartikPrabhu or chat ;)
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# [LewisCowles] yes I am a native english speaker. In England, everyone speaks a dialect though. Asking for food 200+ miles north was an exercise in frustration
# [LewisCowles] for those that ever try it, roll == batch
# [LewisCowles] Birkenhead--
# [LewisCowles] the worst part is that I’m sure they got it wrong
# [LewisCowles] connective (in my mind) is about the thing connecting two things
# [LewisCowles] connected (again my own take) is about the two things being connected
# jeremycherfas I agree. Two (or more) things are connected by a connective, but to me, connective is most often an adjective, as in connective tissue.
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# [LewisCowles] basically if that did more than posts, it’d be exactly what I was thinking of. BNut now I see a GitHub link so I may fork and add to things to play with
# 
[grantcodes] Yeah feel free. There is a bunch of json that generates everything else. It would just need that and maybe some code to render properties if they are not already added
# [LewisCowles] The other thing is showing the HTML + CSS used to create on page.
# [LewisCowles] but maybe that is deliberate, not to do that
# [LewisCowles] oh it’s collapsed
# [grantcodes] Not showing the css is deliberate, as it styles based on the mf2 classes, which you shouldn't really do - but I wanted to use the minimal html
# [grantcodes] Plus they're not good enough to copy and paste anyway 😛
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# [grantcodes] Heh, it's definitely not for ease. It only is worth it in this one very specific use case where I don't want to add more markup that the bare minimum
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# 
[jgmac1106] [LewisCowles] Jeremycherfas is right the suffix ive turns a verb into an adjective, so connect becomes connective, act become active, the -ed suffix indicated past tense of a verb
# [jgmac1106] as in "I connected with the person who corrected my grammar and I explained how such actions hurt diversity and inclusion and let them know they should be happy rto have multlingual team members"
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# [LewisCowles] [jgmac1106] that wasn’t the context though…
# [LewisCowles] It was the ESL speaker correcting 😂
# [jgmac1106] my mistake, and i thoiught it was chat channel not dev
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# [snarfed] only the owner(s) of https://test.activitypub.rocks/ can help there
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# [snarfed] ah, looks like it's https://gitlab.com/dustyweb/pubstrate/tree/master/pubstrate/aptestsuite
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# 
gRegorLove jacky, like no rels on the site? indielogin shows "We couldn't find any way to authenticate you using your website.
# gRegorLove " and links to setup instructions
# gRegorLove btw I tried Fortress with my domain, got "Your URL didn't seem to provide a h-card.
# gRegorLove "
# gRegorLove it's looking good, though! I like that playfair font
# 
[tantek] snarfed, FYI looks like some updates on the AP test suite here: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/the-activitypub-test-suite/290
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# gRegorLove jacky, I have an h-card on the homepage
# gRegorLove What are you doing with the h-card, though?
# gRegorLove hm, maybe my home h-card isn't representative though, need to check.
# gRegorLove nvm, it is
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# 
[chrisaldrich] What is FOAF?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FOAF" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "FOAF is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [chrisaldrich] I'm thinking a bit about this: https://jaenis.ch/blog/2019/discovery-on-indieweb/
# [chrisaldrich] Does anyone know if anyone ever built a FOAF or XFN parsers?
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# KartikPrabhu I think you mean consumers not parsers
# gRegorLove GWG I think you're thinking of XFN. FOAF is RDF
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