#dev 2019-11-20

2019-11-20 UTC
uniquerockrz, [timothy_chamber and Thescooterking joined the channel
#
jacky
alternative to ngrok for those interested https://github.com/inlets/inlets
#
Loqi
[inlets] inlets: Expose your local endpoints to the Internet
#
jacky
unless ssh tunnel works for you :)
#
aaronpk
ssh tunnel works for me but ngrok is so much easier
#
aaronpk
whoa this looks fancy
#
jacky
it does
#
jacky
it's even going as far as trying to do stuff for dns
uniquerockrz and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
GWG_
I'm trying to figure out what to do at the next two IWCs. Anyone have anything to inspire my imagination?
uniquerockrz, gRegorLove, [fluffy], treora, mblaney and deathrow1 joined the channel
#
beko[m]
GWG_: Learn about JS for Gutenberg support? *runs for cover
uniquerockrz and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles]
microformats ui libraries for those needing / wanting a framework
#
KartikPrabhu
[LewisCowles]: what do you mean by microformats UI?
#
[LewisCowles]
So a set of HTML + CSS maybe JS suggestions for newcomers, graphically challenged peoples or those looking for a stable base
#
[LewisCowles]
UI library would be the key thing. UI on it’s own doesn’t make as much sense. Just not sure on hyphenating initialism
#
KartikPrabhu
still not sure what you mean. microformats is a way to parse HTML into a "nice" JSON (or other format). I am confused as to what a UI library does
#
[LewisCowles]
well there are two sides to it, parsing and marking up
#
KartikPrabhu
for parsing there are a bunch of mf2 parsers
#
[LewisCowles]
you need things to be marked up in order to parse mf2, otherwise you’re simply parsing or scraping noise\
#
[LewisCowles]
Right but this isn’t about parsers because HTML + CSS alone are not generally used for parsing
#
KartikPrabhu
in mf2 they are
#
KartikPrabhu
in fact no CSS even
#
[LewisCowles]
OMG oplease show me a html parser for mf2
#
[LewisCowles]
I’ sure you’re conflating the markup with the parser here
#
[LewisCowles]
and it’s really triggering that you’re not separating the two.
#
[LewisCowles]
That is not HTML, it’s PHP
#
[LewisCowles]
it reads HTML
#
[LewisCowles]
it is not written in HTML
gxt joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
I am trying to trigger. I don't understand the qeustion
#
[LewisCowles]
I can see that
#
[LewisCowles]
have you tried googling UI library?
#
KartikPrabhu
no. because a bunch of React stuff shows up
#
[LewisCowles]
right and those are also UI libraries
#
[LewisCowles]
it’s collections of HTML, CSS, optionally JS
#
KartikPrabhu
yes. to build websites that do something
#
KartikPrabhu
I want to know what it is that needs to be done
#
KartikPrabhu
as in what would this library do
uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles]
I’m not sure it needs, to be done, but I was suggesting if GWG wants something to do, then creating patterns for people to assemble something like a h-entry might help people to understand using mf2 (the spec not a PHP library) on their site for crafting their content
#
KartikPrabhu
oops! sorry. I meant to say "I am *not* trying to trigger" . Sorry very late for me
#
KartikPrabhu
aahh I see now. like an UI for authoring mf2 markup
#
[LewisCowles]
absolutely, but not individual pieces like u-url
#
[LewisCowles]
they might have
#
[LewisCowles]
<article class="h-entry">
#
[LewisCowles]
<time class="post-date dt-published" datetime="2019-10-02">
#
[LewisCowles]
<span class="year">2019</span>-<span class="month">10</span>-<span class="day">02</span>
#
[LewisCowles]
<a class="p-name u-url" href="/blog/scalable-systems/">Scalable systems</a>
#
[LewisCowles]
</article>
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah like some h-object
#
KartikPrabhu
ok cool. yes that would be great
#
[LewisCowles]
absolutely a number of them, to show people this is what you can do
#
[LewisCowles]
Btw I’m so glad of that clarification
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah. my bad. I didn't catch that typo :)
#
KartikPrabhu
really not trying to be contrarian for the sake of it
#
[LewisCowles]
not trying to trigger is better than trying, although my brain read it as trying to get to meaning, so thanks for sticking with me
#
[LewisCowles]
It really highlighted how echo-chamber-y my life must be
#
KartikPrabhu
but yes some tool where you click "create h-entry" and then "click add content" or "add author" would be neat
#
[LewisCowles]
I was thinking even simpler
#
[LewisCowles]
just. Here are some things you can do
#
[LewisCowles]
Here is what they look like
#
[LewisCowles]
here are their options
#
[LewisCowles]
this is the code to create them
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm yeah that is a nice idea for a tool for people who don't write HTML by hand
#
[LewisCowles]
the above is part borrowed from my friend and colleague Morgan site, then infused with microformats
#
[LewisCowles]
it’s decidedly minimalist
#
[LewisCowles]
but has some nice CSS for mobile
asymptotically joined the channel
#
jacky
ooof I've been up for hours realizing a loophole in fortress
#
[LewisCowles]
well I like it at least 😁
#
jacky
trying to use it as a indieauth provider but if your site doesn't have rel-me, you technically can't sign in :(
#
KartikPrabhu
[LewisCowles]++
#
Loqi
[LewisCowles] has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
#
jacky
wait [LewisCowles] for the thing you mentioned above
#
jacky
did you mean including like CSS rules for it?
#
jacky
or just super bare bones HTML + MF2 classes
#
KartikPrabhu
a simple start would be to be bare bones HTML + mf2
#
KartikPrabhu
then maybe add some classes+ CSS for simple display
#
beko[m]
<KartikPrabhu "but yes some tool where you clic"> You mean something like https://rxjs-dev.firebaseapp.com/operator-decision-tree ?
#
KartikPrabhu
almost like a visual HTML + CSS + mf2 micropub client ;)
#
jacky
the first bit feels like a step 0
#
KartikPrabhu
beko[m]: well I don't have any Observables yet ;)
#
jacky
it'd be a bit of work but it could help to have presentational forms of what a 'post' could look like
#
KartikPrabhu
jacky: yes. If we have setep 0 then we can iterate
#
beko[m]
KartikPrabhu: scratch that. It's about that Decision Tree :D
#
KartikPrabhu
beko[m]: I know. joke, haha joke ;)
#
[LewisCowles]
KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
#
jacky
step 0 is more-or-less covered in the Wiki, no?
#
beko[m]
KartikPrabhu: I see, you read the last option 😆 Never made it that far 😆
#
KartikPrabhu
but that is good idea to work on [LewisCowles]
#
[LewisCowles]
jacky css too
#
KartikPrabhu
jacky: yes it is but is scattered places
#
KartikPrabhu
a wiki is good for people who sort of kind of know how to find the right topics
#
beko[m]
Hm… I'd probably make use of FSM to program a Decision Tree like this 🤔
#
[LewisCowles]
I sort of see the fact I don’t minify as one way for people to do. I try to really avoid being a designer
#
[LewisCowles]
so I suggested for beko 😁
#
KartikPrabhu
it is weirdly like a Gutenberg model, where you add ummm... blocks to blocks
#
KartikPrabhu
I only mean in terms of UI
#
[LewisCowles]
haha quite
#
[LewisCowles]
maybe without being so prescriptive about the way that is done
#
jacky
hm I guess this is the point of having people link to their examples + screenshots of said examples
#
jacky
might need to make it a bit more of a point to have people put screenshots
#
[LewisCowles]
pre-gutenberg I’d about 10 years basically saying to avoid what they did. I abandoned JS only editors in 2007
#
[LewisCowles]
screenshots are less helpful than HTML
#
KartikPrabhu
jacky: yes. but this goes beyond examples. It is sort of a UI guide to crreaitng it too
#
[LewisCowles]
as-in live markup
#
jacky
are y'all talking like visually presenting to users in a browser or writing the HTML for it
#
jacky
ah okay
#
[LewisCowles]
because then it’s interactive, and to channel tantek, it’s hypertext then
#
jacky
well then I think we are saying the same thing
#
beko[m]
Wiki is a mess for the average Joe Webuser. I do never send ppl that way ever. I take em in on a video chat and show em cool stuff live. Takes a lot of time tho 😕
#
jacky
the wiki works when you know specifics like KartikPrabhu mentioned
#
[LewisCowles]
I think wiki is cool for an audience
#
KartikPrabhu
wiki is more like documentation
#
[LewisCowles]
what is publics?
#
Loqi
publics are the combined set of people who make up the readership or audience of a post https://indieweb.org/publics
#
beko[m]
emphasis on Joe
#
jacky
it's def a place for documentation
#
[LewisCowles]
I have a tendency to retain that which is shown to me
#
KartikPrabhu
it is similar to how we have live sites with mf2 parsers on them. If you have a markup you can check those
#
KartikPrabhu
but if you want to author mf2 there is no such helpful tool
#
jacky
I could have sworn there was a place of sample mf2 content
#
KartikPrabhu
there are examples scattered around both the indieweb wiki and the microformats wiki. but it does take an effort to figure it out if all you want to do is write some HTML + mf2
#
beko[m]
http://microformats.org/ and the wiki are a goldmine for devs, yeah.
#
jacky
there we go
#
[LewisCowles]
even if there were, adding the CSS dimension as an opinionated take
#
[LewisCowles]
on presenting
#
jacky
we could generate a site from that data
#
KartikPrabhu
one could yes
#
[LewisCowles]
its not about the data as-such
#
KartikPrabhu
and then have UI match those examples as a first try
#
jacky
right, but with that, you can see what particular markup can be represented as in the browser with some effort into styling
#
jacky
and it could go from "polished" to "lean"
#
jacky
like a h-feed from mf2+json could be rendered to something like https://tachyons.io/components/article-lists/title-preview-author-media/index.html
#
jacky
and be valid mf22
#
jacky
and be valid mf2
#
KartikPrabhu
really we should start with step 0. An authoring tool that just spits out HTML+mf2 markup in a <textarea>
#
jacky
figured `microformats.io` did that
#
[LewisCowles]
I wasn’t thinking of that at all
#
KartikPrabhu
authoring tool as in you don't write the HTML yourself
#
[LewisCowles]
more like getbootstrap.com for mf2
#
KartikPrabhu
but just cliky somethings to add data
#
[LewisCowles]
so side-bar where people can pick a component
#
[LewisCowles]
it would probably be higher-level than bootstrap alert
#
[LewisCowles]
but things like rating
#
beko[m]
👍️
#
jacky
I mean I'm down for that
#
jacky
I figure y'all were looking for a visualization tool
#
KartikPrabhu
oh! a design system type thing
#
[LewisCowles]
I also think themes and expo are lit AF
#
[LewisCowles]
design system is very similar to a UI library
#
[LewisCowles]
I believe a design system is more comprehensive
#
[LewisCowles]
and I’d like to steer away from that as it could be too rigid
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah I never got that terminology straigt in my head
#
beko[m]
language adds to this ._.
#
[LewisCowles]
today I learned, I really care so much about certain groups of words. I’m sorry for that
uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
beko[m]
[LewisCowles]: are you a native [english] speaker? 😁
#
KartikPrabhu
we all do because of our experiences! not to worry. I am not a web-dev so I get confused about design library vs UI library
#
KartikPrabhu
I am happy to be corrected by people who know better
#
jacky
there's a bell ringing in my head for some reason about this
[intover_q] joined the channel
#
[intover_q]
I have some private/personal Wordpress sites.
#
[intover_q]
The question was for my work related sites...
#
jacky
I can def see someone taking bootstrap, foundation, bulma, etc and using it as a foundation to build a indieweb CSS framework
#
jeremycherfas
Whoa. Shoutout to jacky as you have just popped up for me in Uses This.
#
jacky
wait really? it's out
#
[intover_q]
What kind of dev questions would suite (be the focus) this channel?
#
jacky
anything indieweb-specific :)
#
jacky
ah it is!
#
jacky
I just got it
#
jeremycherfas
Not ¯darn thing. Nada, zip, zilch.
#
jacky
oh the site has a JSON feed
#
jeremycherfas
I subscribe because once every so often I see a thing I could use. Like, I just took a look at your CODE keyboard, just to feed the buyers remorse about the other keyboard I ordered and that will be waiting for me when we visit family in the US for the holidays.
#
jacky
yo this keyboard is unstoppable lol
#
jacky
I've had it for like ~5 years and it flies like the first day ol
#
jeremycherfas
My Das keyboard is great. I really like it. But it also has semi-enclosed keys that accumulate shit. And the USB ports on it are becoming a bit flaky.
#
beko[m]
Eh? I never broke any keyboard [without applying applejuice to it] in my life. And I hammer away all day on it too o0
#
jacky
it's been kinda easy to clean. I use a hand vacuum and pipe cleaners (hair always gets in it)
#
jacky
beko[m]: it feels nice and doesn't feel like a burden to type over for 30min+
#
KartikPrabhu
or chat ;)
#
jacky
lol yup
uniquerockrz and deathrow1 joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles]
yes I am a native english speaker. In England, everyone speaks a dialect though. Asking for food 200+ miles north was an exercise in frustration
#
[LewisCowles]
for those that ever try it, roll == batch
#
[LewisCowles]
Birkenhead--
#
Loqi
Birkenhead has -1 karma over the last year
#
beko[m]
[LewisCowles]: heh, I know that feeling 😁 Not even a native speaker. Now expand this world wide and through various different cultures and timezones. I have to keep this in mind all the time on the net. There's a name for this but I forgot it.
#
[LewisCowles]
the worst part is that I’m sure they got it wrong
#
[LewisCowles]
connective (in my mind) is about the thing connecting two things
#
[LewisCowles]
connected (again my own take) is about the two things being connected
#
jeremycherfas
I agree. Two (or more) things are connected by a connective, but to me, connective is most often an adjective, as in connective tissue.
uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles]
basically if that did more than posts, it’d be exactly what I was thinking of. BNut now I see a GitHub link so I may fork and add to things to play with
#
[grantcodes]
Yeah feel free. There is a bunch of json that generates everything else. It would just need that and maybe some code to render properties if they are not already added
#
[LewisCowles]
The other thing is showing the HTML + CSS used to create on page.
#
[LewisCowles]
but maybe that is deliberate, not to do that
#
[LewisCowles]
oh it’s collapsed
#
[grantcodes]
Not showing the css is deliberate, as it styles based on the mf2 classes, which you shouldn't really do - but I wanted to use the minimal html
#
[grantcodes]
Plus they're not good enough to copy and paste anyway 😛
deathrow1 and uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
[grantcodes]
Heh, it's definitely not for ease. It only is worth it in this one very specific use case where I don't want to add more markup that the bare minimum
uniquerockrz, IWSlackGateway, jjuran and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
[jgmac1106]
[LewisCowles] Jeremycherfas is right the suffix ive turns a verb into an adjective, so connect becomes connective, act become active, the -ed suffix indicated past tense of a verb
#
[jgmac1106]
as in "I connected with the person who corrected my grammar and I explained how such actions hurt diversity and inclusion and let them know they should be happy rto have multlingual team members"
[tantek] and uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
[LewisCowles]
[jgmac1106] that wasn’t the context though…
#
[LewisCowles]
It was the ESL speaker correcting 😂
#
[jgmac1106]
my mistake, and i thoiught it was chat channel not dev
uniquerockrz, [asuh] and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed]
only the owner(s) of https://test.activitypub.rocks/ can help there
#
[snarfed]
or worst case, if they can't be found, the activitypub.rocks domain owners and whoever wants to set up a whole new test server instance
uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
Loqi
[ppwfx] #311 test suite down
gxt, asymptotically, deathrow1 and uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
[tantek]
[snarfed] yeah one possibility would be standing up another instance, but hoping to not have to go down that path. I'd very much prefer to have cwebber in charge and maintaining it as I think that's the best chance of it being in sync with any spec errata / clarifications.
#
jacky
aaronpk: I don't know if you document this on indielogin but what do you do when someone attempts to sign in using indielogin with no other options outside of pointing to indielogin?
#
jacky
I'm considering making it fail open for fortress
#
gRegorLove
jacky, like no rels on the site? indielogin shows "We couldn't find any way to authenticate you using your website.
#
gRegorLove
" and links to setup instructions
#
gRegorLove
btw I tried Fortress with my domain, got "Your URL didn't seem to provide a h-card.
#
gRegorLove
it's looking good, though! I like that playfair font
#
[tantek]
snarfed, FYI looks like some updates on the AP test suite here: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/the-activitypub-test-suite/290
KartikPrabhu and gxt joined the channel
#
jacky
gRegorLove: ah, my bad! I'll be sure to fix that
#
[snarfed]
thanks tantek. all his points are valid...but it sounds like getting the existing server back up would take literally just a new SSL cert. that seems very small and doable. but 🤷
#
jacky
ah you have your h-card on a separate page 🤔, I need to see why it's failing there, it should resolve the card
#
jacky
ah okay
#
jacky
figured it out and will patch re: representative h-card
slouchyfish joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
jacky, I have an h-card on the homepage
#
gRegorLove
What are you doing with the h-card, though?
#
jacky
should put that on the homepage
#
jacky
using it to hold a reference for the providers that are eventually found; I keep it in a db for a while (until the user purges it - coming up)
#
gRegorLove
hm, maybe my home h-card isn't representative though, need to check.
#
gRegorLove
nvm, it is
#
jacky
it is, I haz a bug :)
uniquerockrz, bddapDiscord[m], asymptotically, gxt, [LewisCowles], k3 and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich]
What is FOAF?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "FOAF" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "FOAF is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
[chrisaldrich]
Does anyone know if anyone ever built a FOAF or XFN parsers?
#
GWG_
Isn't that a rel parser?
uniquerockrz joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
I think you mean consumers not parsers
#
gRegorLove
GWG I think you're thinking of XFN. FOAF is RDF
uniquerockrz joined the channel