#dev 2020-01-12

2020-01-12 UTC
maxwelljoslyn, blueyed, petermolnar, OldJoe, [schmarty] and gRegorLove joined the channel; OldJoe left the channel
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aaronpk I'm guessing either bridgy "spam" or they also set up the webmention.io pingback forwarder and got pingback spam
KartikPrabhu1, [Michael_Beckwit, KartikPrabhu, mattl, danyao, sfoster, Kaja____ and [dmitshur] joined the channel
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[dmitshur] multiple identities is hard 😐
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[dmitshur] So many design, UX, implementation trade-offs...
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[dmitshur] Now you sign in via your personal site instead, which has rel=me link to that same GitHub profile.
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[dmitshur] e.g. say you’ve signed in to my site in the past via GitHub, left reactions, received notifications, etc.
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[dmitshur] There isn’t a clear single best of least-unexpected thing to do, each has cons and pros. I make a decision to link accounts together or not to. Or ask user, which is more UI and complexity.,,
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[dmitshur] or* not of
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[Michael_Beckwit i need to read up more on whatever security implications there are for IndieAuth before I attempt using in more places
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aaronpk [dmitshur]: this is a classic problem with third party logins and has plagued many companies for years and years ever since that pattern became common
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[dmitshur] yep, very much so :( but there is similarity to changing one’s name/username and not wanting to lose notifications and history. so I still hope to find a way forward I’m happy with.
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[tantek] What is chess
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chess" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "chess is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Hmm I thought I aliases that for the whole Webmention chess idea
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[tantek] What is whitespace?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "whitespace" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "whitespace is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Ok for now I will just log this then, Webmention for Connect Four! https://twitter.com/jazz_inmypants/status/1216253852380430336
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@jazz_inmypants first person to reply with a move is playing me connect 4 lets go cowards ⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️ ⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️ ⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️ ⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️⚪️ ⚪️⚪️⚪️🔴⚪️⚪️⚪️ (twitter.com/_/status/1216253852380430336)
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@nhoizey ↩️ I understand the frustration. http://webmention.io has a WebHook that can alert you when there’s a new webmention. Here’s a usage example: https://martymcgui.re/2017/03/29/site-updates-/mentions-page-and-notifications/ You could also create an issue to ask @aaronpk about a moderation feature. I didn’t find any in old issues. (twitter.com/_/status/1216282434486128640)
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@nhoizey ↩️ @hankchizljaw @sil @aaronpk You’re welcome! I have to work on Webmentions too, so everything around it is interesting to follow. (twitter.com/_/status/1216315595366567938)
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@ifedyukin Запилил, чтобы в бложике можно было фидбэк через webmention’ы присылать. Осталось придумать, куда их рендерит только. Говорю “Индивеб - круто!” :D (twitter.com/_/status/1216365037335588866)
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@t 🎉🎂 Happy 3rd birthday #Webmention! https://indieweb.org/Webmention @W3C Recommendation published 2017-01-12 with a still live robust test suite, Webmention has more interoperable implementations than any other federated peer-to-peer social web protocol, ... https://tantek.com/t54Z1 (twitter.com/_/status/1216380158812123136)
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[tantek] Since Loqi is slow: https://twitter.com/t/status/1216380158812123136
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[tantek] If you've built or used Webmention, consider writing a post of your own noting what you've done, what it's done for you, and why you like it.
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@ifedyukin ↩️ Я юзают https://webmention.io, там админка (можно удалять меншены и конкретные домены банить) и API для получения уже есть. Кстати, пингбэки они в вебменшены тоже конвертят. Надо будет просто процесс взаимодействия как-то настроить и придумать, как отображать. (twitter.com/_/status/1216390783143686145)
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[tantek] Webmention++
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Loqi Webmention has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[tantek] Webmentionrocks++
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Loqi Webmentionrocks has 1 karma over the last year
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[Marlin_Forbes] I'm busy with implementing my own micropub server. there's a few loose ends - one of them is undeletes. I'm interested to know what people's strategy is for this. I'm considering adding `deleted: true` to the metadata and letting the generator ignore those when it writes out the static site. How are you handling undeletes (if at all)?
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@CrowderSoup #Indieweb is the way forward for an open, social, and inclusive internet. Happy birthday to #Webmentions! Here's to another 3 years of success! #Repost https://is.gd/wm46yM #BlogPost (twitter.com/_/status/1216414420194283521)
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myfreeweb [Marlin_Forbes]: yeah, deleted field, and deleted pages should be served as "tombstones" with 410 Gone http status
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@JamieTanna Automagically sending push notifications to my mobile phone when I receive a Webmention.: https://www.jvt.me/posts/2020/01/12/webmention-notifications/ https://t.co/nye4wGtWoH (twitter.com/_/status/1216430342124507136)
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/generativist/status/1216446122551439360
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@generativist Thanks to folks like @t and @dietrich, I am having a lot of trouble convincing myself that writing my service on top of twitter is a good idea and that I shouldn’t just build on indie web instead... (twitter.com/_/status/1216446122551439360)
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[dmitshur] it's almost fascinating how much uncertainty I have about this question: if a user signed in via github as "https://github.com/example" and left a dog reaction on a post, and later they sign in via indieauth as "https://example.com/" which has a rel=me link to their github, should they see that "they already left a dog reaction" or that "someone else who is https://github.com/example left a reaction". 😕
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[dmitshur] I'm leaning towards keeping them separate by default but trying to offer some UI to allow users to unify multiple URLs they're in control of. the most similar situation I can think of is someone having 2 different emails, and an email client giving them the option of seeing a "unified inbox". but that likely shouldn't be the default behavior.
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aaronpk if you've verified the rel=me links in both directions then I think that's a pretty strong statement by the user that they want their profile URLs to be treated as equivalent
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[dmitshur] Hmm 🤔. I think the difficulty with that is that it brings in a ton of complexity around the cases when the set of linked identities change (more added or old removed)...
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aaronpk making them opt in to linking them doesn't remove that complexity, it just pushes it down the road
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[dmitshur] That is true.
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[dmitshur] But opt in feels more appropriate given that it’s complexity for user and implementation. It seems to deserve management UI that allows picking preferred identity, migrating between them, etc.
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[dmitshur] My biggest problem now is that my code is 80% done and I just want to find a reasonable short term target to reach and publish, rather than not making any public-facing progress at all.
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aaronpk that's fair
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[dmitshur] I got overly excited and implemented two-way rel=me verification code (with nice security properties), but now I think the most reasonable thing for me to do is put off making use of that until a future milestone.
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[dmitshur] Btw, one observation about the “Explicitly Choosing Auth Providers” scheme described at the bottom of https://indielogin.com/setup. It works well on your site which you control, but ironically it’s not viable to make use of on silos like GitHub to say whether or not you consider your personal site’s IndieAuth endpoint to be okay to use for authentication in place of GitHub (because you can’t add “authn” to the rel=me link of you
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[dmitshur] site listed on your GitHub profile page)
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Loqi How to Set Up Your Website for IndieLogin.com
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[jeremycherfas] Not sure whether this is relevant, but when I signed up for TripIt I gave it a spamtrap email. Then, when I forwarded my first message from my true email, it offered me the chance to unify the two, which I did, and it just worked. I know that is simpler, but I appreciated the simplicity of being able to do it with essentially one click.
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aaronpk you're not meant to be able to use a github url to sign in on indielogin.com
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[dmitshur] Yea, this was in context of my site where you can use GitHub profile URLs.
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[dmitshur] Jeremy, that sounds like a potentially nice UX to think about for long term. It involves figuring out a lot of details and edge cases.
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