#dev 2020-01-14

2020-01-14 UTC
[snarfed], chrisaldrich, petermolnar, tg-z, [Rose], eli_oat, DigitalOilDiscor, [jgmac1106], [fluffy] and [dmitshur] joined the channel
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[dmitshur] [aaronpk] Would you mind checking if I understood https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#discovery-by-clients accurately over at https://gist.github.com/dmitshur/e3324122814c5ad714c999e2c8b3ab32?
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@jeremyfelt Webmentions work log https://jeremyfelt.com/2020/01/13/webmentions-work-log-20200113/ (twitter.com/_/status/1216935510859341824)
[tantek], [schmarty], deathrow1|absnt, tg-z, FreeDrakeTickets, cweiske and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
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Ruxton aaronpk: XRay is picking up my activity+json (because WP doesn't have MF2+json?) and therefore missing my syndications, so I can't post to indienews
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Ruxton looks like someones gonna have to build mf2+json template_include filter for mf2-feed plugin, I'll take a smash at it over the next week or 2
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@CurationMonkey #webmentionってもっと顧みられてもいい企画だと思うんですけど、いまいち採用されないですね, at January 14, 2020 at 06:00PM! https://ift.tt/2tfWme6 https://t.co/2CrdBJFMFN (twitter.com/_/status/1217009976696352768)
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sgreger I built this mainly for my personal use, but in case any Kirby users are interested: https://github.com/sebastiangreger/kirby3-selfauth (wrapping Selfauth as a Kirby3 plugin)
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Loqi [sebastiangreger] kirby3-selfauth: A modified version of Selfauth as a Kirby 3 plugin.
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GWG Ruxton: There's an issue open for that
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-activitypub/issues/78
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Loqi [ngm] #78 Conflict with XRay's parsing of microformats
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GWG The problem is precedence
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GWG Ruxton: I had wanted to build that, but there is no way for plugins to coordinate on this matter indirectly
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Ruxton-WEB GWG: yeah I looked deeper after writing that and came to similar conclusions.. not sure what the solution is for best of both worlds, I want activitypub, but XRay is in soo many things.. even if the plugin was respecting order, XRay is rightly (arguably) putting activity+json as it's 2nd order in Accept header of request
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GWG Ruxton-WEB: Fortunately, pfefferle and I coordinate
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[jgmac1106] sgreger I pulled away from Kirby a bit as I couldn't get the webmentions working but I still have the site up,
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[jgmac1106] sgreger++ for the plugin work
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Loqi sgreger has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[tantek] Worth responding to? https://twitter.com/internetarchive/status/1216971171398209537
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@internetarchive Come meet some of the people building Decentralized standards for social media at the 1/21 DWeb SF Meet up: https://mailchi.mp/1df44fcb48d5/dweb-sf-meetup-january-explores-decentralized-social-media https://twitter.com/ammori/status/1215676708222713857 (twitter.com/_/status/1216971171398209537)
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[tantek] (Note that the quotes tweet is yet another blockchain pitch and someone else already called it out as no blockchain needed)
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[tantek] quoted* tweet
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[tantek] It’s also interesting to watch the blockchain and ActivityPub advocates argue ... on Twitter, with neither of them actually using their own technology to argue. Sad
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[tantek] What is Twetch?
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[tantek] Not sure why this is not obviously being pointed out
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Twetch" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Twetch is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] (Also from the quoted tweet thread)
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[jgmac1106] and the usual right wing "deep state social media companies be censoring us because they hate America" vibe in thread..
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[Marlin_Forbes] haha is this good or bad or sad?
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aaronpk Whoa bye bye user agent strings
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aaronpk https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!msg/blink-dev/-2JIRNMWJ7s/yHe4tQNLCgAJ
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/_scottlow/status/1206831008261132289?s=21
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@_scottlow @mikewest @ericlaw I chatted with @yoavweiss about this at CDS! As the current owner of our UA string, I’m super supportive of this 😊 (twitter.com/_/status/1206831008261132289)
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[schmarty] whaaaaaaa
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aaronpk https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/202#issuecomment-558294095
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Loqi [miketaylr] Hey @yoavweiss - sorry for the delay here. I've been having discussions with Tanvi and @martinthomson about the User Agents Hints proposal and here's some draft language that could maybe result in a position: ---- ### Description The UA Hints pr...
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aaronpk Everyone is on board
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[schmarty] "everyone"
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aaronpk I mean the decision makers for the three browsers
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[schmarty] haha it's very much worth clarifying!
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[tantek] Huh thought it was still being debated
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[tantek] Will read up on the hints threads
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petermolnar this will break so many things
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petermolnar but I also welcome it
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aaronpk it looks like they're going to freeze the UA string, not remove it, so nothing will break, it'll just become useless in the future
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[schmarty] "It's not broken, just useless" is a heck of a statement
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aaronpk lol no it makes sense
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aaronpk anything currently deployed that's sniffing user agent strings will continue to work
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[schmarty] Definitely going to be some interesting fallout on sites that rely on sniffing
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aaronpk anything fingerprinting from user agent strings will also continue to work, but in the future, the fingerprinting will result in everyone looking the same
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[schmarty] They will continue to sniff! Unclear if they will continue to work
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[schmarty] Thinking of old bank and gov sites that sniff for IE and refuse to work if they don't find it, for example. Maybe they're all offline at this point. 🤷‍♂️
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aaronpk they're already super broken
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aaronpk I used one the other day that refused to work in safari and said "please update to the latest safari" which it absolutely was
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[KevinMarks] my bank website is total dogshit
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[KevinMarks] https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1188069901484937217
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@kevinmarks @Citibank So I have to use your shitty website that is not responsive so I need a magnifying glass and is choking in ads disclaimers, popups and has navigation based on your org chart not my utility. This is a phone screenshot. In 2019. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHzfRP0XkAA8HEh.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1188069901484937217)
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aaronpk lol wow
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[tantek] welcome [generativist]!
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[generativist] Has anyone seen a Jupyter/IPython static site generator that is indieweb-friendly?
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jeremycherfas !tell cleverdevil and anyone else who gets podcast info from Overcast, have you noticed any weirdness lately, with episodes skipped and things like that?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[KevinMarks] with jupyter you can export the notebooks - could you put the code rom IPython into one?
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[KevinMarks] my son did this with his projects http://kitmarks.com/machine_learning_projects.html
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[KevinMarks] ah, hang on they were IPython - the instructions are in the footer of http://kitmarks.com/titanic_survival_exploration.html
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[KevinMarks] finalize your work by exporting the iPython Notebook as an HTML document. You can do this by using the menu above and navigating to
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[KevinMarks] *File -> Download as -> HTML (.html)*.
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[tantek] what is Jupyter?
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Loqi Project Jupyter or simply Jupyter is a non-profit, open-source project evolved out of the IPython project to include Julia, R, etc https://indieweb.org/jupyter
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[tantek] what is IPython?
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Loqi IPython is a command shell for interactive computing in multiple programming languages, originally developed for the Python programming language, that offers introspection, rich media, shell syntax, tab completion, and history https://indieweb.org/ipython
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[tantek] interesting
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[generativist] [KevinMarks] Yea I did my entire dissertation in Jupyter/Ipython and used pandoc to convert it to latex
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[generativist] and i generate my old blog from them
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[generativist] I think it may be a good project to clean up and offer for me to get to know the ins-and-outs of indie better
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[generativist] while onboarding datascientists
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[KevinMarks] that you can run python code in the browser with it is rather nice
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[generativist] yea, i think almost entirely in Jupyter Lab now
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[tantek] whoa, use of whitespace to drastically alter presentation and meaning in notes: https://twitter.com/MissSaltySoul/status/1170695814211145728 (I expect Loqi to butcher this)
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@MissSaltySoul not doing shit feeIing because anxious i feeI because I'm anxious not doing shit 🤝 me (twitter.com/_/status/1170695814211145728)
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[tantek] yup. This is why linebreaks matter in /note posts, and if you're collapsing them into spaces, you're losing information
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aaronpk hah awesome
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[tantek] The Slack preview gets it right
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[tantek] what is whitespace
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "whitespace" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "whitespace is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] wat
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aaronpk hard to translate to IRC without taking up a bunch of lines
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[tantek] already does when Loqi expands notes from my site
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[tantek] this is literally a problem with Loqi *only* with tweet expansion
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aaronpk the flip side of that is if Loqi does spew a tweet onto multiple lines, then it won't show up right in the logs
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[tantek] example: https://tantek.com/2020/007/t1/hosting-homebrew-website-club-sf
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] hosting Homebrew Website Club SF! 🗓 17:00 tomorrow (2020-01-08) 📍 @MozSF 🎟 RSVP & more: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/01/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-5UBvPIXX0gi0 ✉️ Join us! @AnoukRuhaak @JackyAlcine @benwerd @dietrich @AndiGa...
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aaronpk the logs look for that twtr.io link and then format the line differently
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[tantek] oh wow the logs look broken for both
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[tantek] despite the expansion of my permalink looking correct here in Slack
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[tantek] (with linebreaks)
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aaronpk I can fix the logs for your post, but not for the tweet
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aaronpk I suspect the newlines are already in the storage file
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aaronpk yep css makes the line breaks on your post show up
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[tantek] I checked the source. my newlines are in the log HTML. so that should be fixable with some CSS like: white-space: pre-wrap
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[tantek] well that's one improvement at least (for the logs)
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[tantek] why can't Loqi keep the linebreak chars for tweet expansions as well?
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aaronpk I said that already
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aaronpk the logs look for the twtr.io link at the end of the line to format the line specially for tweets
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aaronpk so if it's across multiple lines then the autolinking won't work
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[tantek] seems like if the logs are doing special work for the tweets that would be argument *for* keeping and handling ws in tweets, not against
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aaronpk yeah i'm not writing that code lol
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[tantek] wat "across multiple lines then the autolinking won't work"
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aaronpk looking for contiguous text across multiple log lines
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[tantek] now I'm really confused
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aaronpk ok there are two different things happening with tweets
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[KevinMarks] [generativist] I find jupyter to be a bit RAM-hungry, so I also do python munging using generators as coroutines
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[tantek] my note has autolinked URLs in the logs and linebreaks so.... ?
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aaronpk the tweet expansion when you drop a link from chat would probably work the same as mf2 url expansion, where IRC would get it as multiple lines, but the logger sees it as one message
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aaronpk but when tweets are dropped here from search, the logger sees each line as a separate message
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aaronpk anyway this is so not my priority today
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[snarfed] commiserates, spent way too much time fighting whitespace in bridgy/granary
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swentel haha, lost half a day on a newline exception in a string in java. Let's ban enter :)
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[tantek] what is whitespace
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Loqi whitespace is the space between words and lines of text, including line-breaks, and is used deliberately on the IndieWeb to format note posts in a particular way, like to indent lines or make text lists without markup https://indieweb.org/whitespace
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[tantek] that'll do for now. needs examples, issues, gotchas, etc.
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[snarfed] [tantek] https://indieweb.org/note#Indieweb_whitespace_thinking
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[snarfed] oh and earlier sections
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[tantek] yup, was just there to drop a link
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@_carlbrand ↩️ Testing the webmentions! (twitter.com/_/status/1217185772824035335)
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[jgmac1106] Whitespace is a reason some micropub clients don't work for me. Especially poetry.
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[jgmac1106] And the whole two space thing part of the reason I was never sold on markdown
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