#dev 2020-01-26

2020-01-26 UTC
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[Michael_Beckwit slightly odd question, would adding `rel="me"` with javascript make it recognized by the computers it's intended for? or should it be statically added only?
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@bixtweets I’ve changed my mind: I no longer want RSS readers from which you can reply to blog posts via webmention. It completely violates my contention that the social media has too little friction; it’s not a flaw an indieweb blogosphere software ecosystem ... https://bix.blog/2020/01/25/ive-changed-my.html (twitter.com/_/status/1221246451864547329)
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aaronpk most parsers will not execute javascript so that would be invisible to them
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[Michael_Beckwit kind of what i figured.
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[Michael_Beckwit no rel=me on my GoodReads RSS feed url then
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sivy_ hm, aaronpk -- I was testing my webmention markup on this page: http://monkinetic.blog/2020/01/26/#txt-b0c3a1e but this is the result I got from your tutorial page: https://webmention.io/aaronpk/webmention/4eJC40jQ_Pz-jI_CWS8Q
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Loqi Aaron Parecki has a great tutorial on Sending your First Webmention from Scratch. #webmention #indieweb
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aaronpk Hm that's an interesting one
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sivy_ right?
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aaronpk Oh I see what's happening
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aaronpk you have p-content which means my parser sees only the plaintext of your post
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aaronpk And the link to my site is only in the html href attribute
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmonkinetic.blog%2F2020%2F01%2F26%2F%23txt-b0c3a1e
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aaronpk if you use e-content then it should work since that tells parsers they should care about the HTML of your post
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sivy_ ah, i already fixed it in the templates, will update in a bit
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sivy_ thanks!
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aaronpk Sweet
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sivy fixed! https://webmention.io/aaronpk/webmention/bJRZ9SqVw6PLWbzPJf92
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aaronpk Hah just got the notification! https://i.imgur.com/HMZZHrZ.jpg
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sivy im not sure why the author data did not really work
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aaronpk Oh hm
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aaronpk I'm looking at the parsed result http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmonkinetic.blog%2F2020%2F01%2F26%2F%23txt-b0c3a1e
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aaronpk there's no author property in the h-entry
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sivy I'll play more tomorrow
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sivy thanks for all the help, this is fun :P
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aaronpk 👍
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sivy gnite all
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GWG I am trying to figure out what an authorization endpoint should do with a scope it doesn't recognize
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[Marlin_Forbes] • ignore it and carry on
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[Marlin_Forbes] • ignore it and carry on and log the attempt
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[Marlin_Forbes] • warn the user and carry on and log the attempt
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[Marlin_Forbes] • warn the user and carry on
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[Marlin_Forbes] • stop the process with a 400 bad request
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[Marlin_Forbes] one of the above 🙂
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GWG Right now it allows it to be accepted
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GWG With no warning
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[Marlin_Forbes] what do other auth providers do in that circumstance, I'd assume they're strict
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GWG I am not sure, that's why I am asking
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GWG Prior to IndieAuth, never implemented an Oauth2 type system before
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aaronpk It depends on whether the authorization endpoint is expected to be aware of the scope values. Usually in OAuth it is.
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GWG aaronpk: My problem is that the Micropub endpoint is handling permissions. I want to move that logic into the authorization endpoint
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GWG Also, since the authorization endpoint doesn't check the permissions of the user, it could in theory grant a scope that does not reflect a capability the user has
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jamietanna[m] But I guess with OAuth, an authorization server is within its rights to ignore scopes provided, and only return the scopes it supports or is happy with. So the client should validate the scopes they've got back from the token endpoint
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@JamieTanna ↩️ It can also make some of it harder, too! My site is a static Hugo site, but for some of the IndieWeb stuff I either need to add client-side JS or write separate services that can run to ie send Webmentions. It definitely works, but is a bit more work as… https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/01/bpq5i/ (twitter.com/_/status/1221354767559090176)
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[KevinMarks] @sivy indiewebify.me is a good check for h-entry post markup
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jgmac1106 What is Morris?
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Loqi Morris is a self-hosted PHP service for storing Webmentions from webmention.io in a JSON format that static sites can use to render them without querying webmention.io on each build https://indieweb.org/Morris
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[tantek] aaronpk, GWG, one big use case is wanting to use your domain as your identity, while having WP installed and served from a subdirectory like /blog. That’s a good example of wanting WP to handle micropub, but *nothing* to do with auth/identity which you want to control by other means with your own static index.html
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[tantek] This is what [David_Bryant] ran into for example, and I can see it being a very common case
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GWG [tantek]: I had him in mind as well
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[tantek] GWG, I figured, however the description you gave was a bit abstract, and aaronpk was (rightly) asking for the specific use case
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[tantek] Always better to start these discussions / questions with the specific use case as context instead of leaping to a developer abstraction
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GWG [tantek]: He wasn't the only use case, there were others who just had multiple WordPress bllgs5
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GWG blogs
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[tantek] Sure, you can expand upon it that way. Point is to always start with a concrete use case, not an abstraction
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GWG pfefferle uses web sign in for that, which does work
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GWG https://indieweb.org/Wordpress_IndieAuth_Plugin#Use_Cases
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[David_Bryant] For the moment I'm taking a different path, experimenting with Eleventy rather than trying to build my site as a combination of hand-written HTML/JS/CSS + Word Press, but I still have the WP-based setup operational if there's any testing I can do to advance efforts here.
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GWG There's also a relmeauth use case I don't cover
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[David_Bryant] Happy to help describe my use case, too.
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GWG [David_Bryant]: Can you add it to that page?
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[David_Bryant] Sure!
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[David_Bryant] It'll go under the IndieAuth subsection of the 'Use Cases' section in that page, correct?
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[tantek] That makes sense!
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GWG [David_Bryant]: Yes, we have a few there now
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[David_Bryant] Working on it now...
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GWG I have a lot of things I want to accomplish with the plugin...a lot around hardening
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[David_Bryant] OK -- first cut at my "hybrid" site use case just added to that page. Happy to revise, correct, etc.
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Loqi OK has -1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] Ok++ ! :)
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Loqi Ok has 0 karma over the last year
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GWG Thanks
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[David_Bryant] (I keep forgetting not to use that double dash separator in my comments here. 🙂 )
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jgmac1106 !tell mblaney you should activate the source code button in TinyMCE for ihazawebsite
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jgmac1106 nvm I found the extended editor button
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jgmac1106 Going to give ihazawebsite a go this semester rather than one shared instance of Known, don’t think the freenom free domains work, I tried atleast thirty different domains, will see if someone will give me a deal on 25 domains
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jgmac1106 …or I get one and have to set up 25 subdomains…..fall back plan of last resort
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aaronpk Oh yeah the /blog use case is a good one
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aaronpk but isn't it more that in that case you don't want Wordpress involved at all with IndieAuth? I don't understand how Wordpress relates to IndieAuth on the domain in that case
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GWG aaronpk: It's all the IndieAuth you have
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aaronpk Or are you still trying to use Micropub apps to post to Wordpress but it needs to report your identity url as the root domain
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GWG aaronpk: That is it, I think
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aaronpk so you do still want the built in Wordpress IndieAuth endpoint it just needs to be configured to support that case
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GWG aaronpk: Corr5
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GWG Correct
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[tantek] No “just” there. That’s one option. The other option is that the user wants to completely control their IndieAuth via their home page independent of WordPress
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[tantek] That should be the user’a choice. Both are reasonable
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aaronpk I'm not saying either are unreasonable. My question was when would you want to use IndieAuth in Wordpress while also having that controlled outside of Wordpress
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aaronpk Having Wordpress completely separate from your home page and IndieAuth is a great option and in that case you don't need the IndieAuth plugin at all so it's not really relevant to the discussion about the plugin
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GWG aaronpk: Oddly enough, people do
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@bmann ↩️ Staticman is one option https://staticman.net/ I’m running self-hosted Webmentions but generally don’t feel the need to have comments: it’s easy for people to write in their own spaces and link back. (twitter.com/_/status/1221499322812043266)
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jamesonq I was just in the #indieweb channel, they pointed me here. Here's what I said:
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jamesonq Hi, y'all. I'm Jameson — just graduating with a stats PhD, looking to have my own indieweb web site. I was looking for something python- or node-based so I tentatively chose redwind. But "last commit, 4 years ago" isn't encouraging.Let's suppose, then, that I'm strongly anti-PHP (which isn't entirely true, but certainly I'd prefer to explore
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jamesonq other options first).
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jamesonq Let's suppose, then, that I'm strongly anti-PHP (which isn't entirely true, but certainly I'd prefer to explore other options first).I have some experience with Python and Javascript; no substantial experience with Ruby.I'd like to choose something that's reasonably turnkey for now, but which I could conceivably start hacking on in the future if I
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jamesonq decided to.Does anyone here have any advice?
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jamesonq Willing to put in a couple day's work to get something up and running now, but I'd want it to be something where if I got stuck in a time loop, I could do it in under 4 hours the second time around. I'd probably be actually running this on Heroku.
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[LewisCowles] @GWG would 206 partial content be enough?
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GWG [LewisCowles]: Context?
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GWG jamesonq: I haven't thought of Redwind in ages
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GWG The developer hasn't been seen in ages. Maybe you want to work on it
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jamesonq I just want to make a personal website with some basic indieweb functionality, running on something that's not PHP
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jamesonq I was a "programmer" in a past life, but now that I'm a statistician, I probably don't have the bandwidth to do more than minor tinkering
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jamesonq So, I'd like to use something where there's a community, if possible. If that means I gotta bite the PHP bullet, then so be it. But I doubt that I'm the only one who'd prefer not to, so it's surprising to me that there isn't a clearer option
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aaronpk a lot of people build their own stuff and don't necessarily make it open source or productize it into an "off the shelf" thing
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jamesonq I kinda suspect that the right answer is "Use Flask" or "use Django" or whatever, that the indieweb functionality is just a normal part of what one of those packages does these days
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aaronpk i'd say the most mature options that are closest to off-the-shelf are Known or WordPress, both PHP
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aaronpk but there are plenty of libraries for various indieweb components in a variety of languages
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[LewisCowles] GWG sorry, slack hadn't scrolled, I saw your question on scopes
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GWG [LewisCowles]: Oh
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[LewisCowles] You said it was returning. I'd probably 206 for any unsupported scope
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aaronpk and there are also services that can handle some of the pieces like receiving webmentions that you can integrate easier than doing everything from scratch
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jamesonq Thanks for talking me through this. Your answer isn't a total surprise. I'm here to get informed knowledge, so I'll stick around a while and see if anybody else has something to say on this.
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aaronpk [LewisCowles]: mixing HTTP codes with application logic doesn't make a lot of sense here. HTTP 206 is something very specific to the transport layer, not something you want to mix in with authorization
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[LewisCowles] Pause [aaronpk], think about it there must be valid scopes and auths (separate to this) in order for it to return content
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[LewisCowles] I'm merely suggesting you indicate that the content does not contain the scope
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aaronpk that's not at all what HTTP 206 means though
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aaronpk it's for HTTP Range requests
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GWG [LewisCowles]: The correct is a 400 and invalid_scope as the error message if I understand correctly
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[LewisCowles] if it were the only scope 400 would make sense to me, but you said you were serving content
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aaronpk GWG: you can also ignore unrecognized scopes rather than return an error
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[LewisCowles] without errors
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GWG aaronpk: Right now I just accept them
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[KevinMarks] @jamesonq if you want python there is publ https://github.com/PlaidWeb/Publ which is actively maintained and indieweb friendly
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Loqi [PlaidWeb] Publ: Flexible publishing system for the web
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jamesonq Thanks, +[KevinMarks]
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[KevinMarks] Another option as people have said might be a static site generator, then use external services for webmention etc. Hugo is flexible and fast, but in Go not python.
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[fluffy] also regarding publ its author is sometimes active on this chat 😉
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aaronpk Oh I totally forgot that was python! You should add yourself here! https://indieweb.org/Python
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[fluffy] ah, will do!
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jamesonq Yay, I prompted something good happening :)
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Loqi :D
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sivy-phone jamesonq: I’m building my own in Go, it’s open sourcish but not productized yet
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sivy-phone But it runs as a single Binary, so easy to deploy/run
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sivy-phone I can share ansible playbooks if you want to play with it
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sivy-phone Https://GitHub.com/sivy/goldfrog
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sivy-phone All that said, it’s not terribly full-featured right now :-)
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[tantek] welcome and well done jamesonq++
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Loqi jamesonq has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] often times "just" asking the right questions causes something good to happen
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[KevinMarks] fluffy++
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Loqi fluffy has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (55 in all channels)
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mblaney hi #indieweb-dev
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Loqi mblaney: jgmac1106 left you a message 10 hours, 3 minutes ago: you should activate the source code button in TinyMCE for ihazawebsite
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mblaney jgmac1106 I had the same trouble with freenom
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[KevinMarks] https://twitter.com/seldo/status/1221574536597950465?s=20
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@seldo Is there any point to my restoring support for RSS to my blog? (twitter.com/_/status/1221574536597950465)
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mblaney did you try following https://i.haza.website/how-to-create-a-free-website? I'm guessing you had the same problem as me, you need to specify the tld you want when searching.