#dev 2020-01-31

2020-01-31 UTC
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sivy good evening
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aaronpk waves
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aaronpk quiet day today
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[dmitshur] I'm planning/hoping to push the code that fixes github.com/shurcooL/home/issue/34 today and launch it (aka announce on twitter) tomorrow
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[dmitshur] I'm curious, do people have thoughts on the recent Tailscale blog posts?
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[dmitshur] • https://bradfitz.com/2020/01/30/joining-tailscale
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[dmitshur] • https://crawshaw.io/blog/remembering-the-lan
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[dmitshur] • https://apenwarr.ca/log/20190819
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[dmitshur] I'm trying to better understand the part of using IP addresses for authn/z
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[dmitshur] > Use the global internet identity system of your choice for authentication, and do cryptographic authorization at the IP level.
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[dmitshur] > When he later wanted to expose a read-only version of its interface to the world, the authn/z check was simple: check the IP address.
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[dmitshur] > But it is not clear to me I would program at all today. Learning how to store passwords or add OAuth2 to your toy web site is not fun.
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[dmitshur] etc.
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[dmitshur] that broken github link should be "issues/34" not "issue/34"
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Ruxton "check the IP address." until your ISP does some carrier-grade NAT and you just allowed 1000+ people access
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Ruxton reads more on tailscale
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Ruxton ohhh
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[dmitshur] yeah, they're not the usual IPs, but I find it hard to understand if it's good or bad. it took me a long time to form an opinion on whether URLs are good for identifying people and for authentication.
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@ChrisAldrich Manual Backfeed in the Blogosphere: Forcing webmentions for conversations on websites that don’t support Webmention #IndieWeb https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/30/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere/ (twitter.com/_/status/1223133159098732546)
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[snarfed] hah, ^ this is clever
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Loqi [snarfed]: jgmac1106 left you a message 19 hours, 19 minutes ago: sure what happens with Bridgy on this: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1222841535898714113 compared to https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/2020-01-30-1 my url gets replaced with the person I am linking to
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[dmitshur] welp, here goes nothing: http://instantshare.win/c1cosxd57ox5.png https://github.com/shurcooL/home/commit/bb504a4ef0d7c552d363742ebefb9e5cd5a32e40
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[dmitshur] going to announce it more widely tomorrow (err, today...)
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Bohren_Gore Hey, so this may sound like a stupid question… I’ve taken all these HTML and Javascript classes, using the schools server, but I want to practice on my own now. I’m assuming that means I need a domain and web host, but it seems like there are a lot of factors that go into who to go with… does anyone has any advice as far as what I should be looking at? Any make-or-breaks for anyone?
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[Marlin_Forbes] Apologies if posted before. Apparently some of Facebook's PHP source code from 2007.
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[Marlin_Forbes] https://gist.github.com/nikcub/3833406
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[tantek] what is a webhost?
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Loqi Web hosting can be the primary regular cost in maintaining an IndieWeb site; this page lists several options from free on up depending on your publishing needs, like a static, shared, private, or dedicated server https://indieweb.org/webhost
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wink Missing "Running your own k8s cluster for your blog" :P
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[tantek] wink, is that what you do?
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[tantek] Bohren_Gove see that page ^^^ for advice, options ec.
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wink no, but people do tend to overengineer some thingS :P
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wink it's a good site, I have read it in the past
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wink err, page. whatver.
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[tantek] we tend to document actual real world solutions and approaches that people use in the community rather than worrying about theoretical or 2ndhand over-enginering
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[tantek] we do document common antipatterns though to help folks avoid traps
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[tantek] what are anti-patterns
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Loqi antipatterns are antithetical to a diverse and growing indieweb, often times the opposite, or at best a distraction from indieweb principles and building-blocks, yet persistently repeated despite their tendency to waste time and cause failures https://indieweb.org/anti-patterns
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@RealSexyCyborg I'm willing to accept that in the movie adaptation the "Brave Chinese Nurse" has to be played played by Jennifer Lawrence if we can get Dwayne Johnson shrunk down, inserted into baby Ting Ting's bloodstream in a microsub, and then he fight the viruses in hand to hand combat. (twitter.com/_/status/1223173731633135618)
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[tantek] "microsub" 😂
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[Marlin_Forbes] obligatory: sponsored by corona
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Bohren_Gore Thank you, I’ve been reading it. Great info!
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Bohren_Gore I didn’t realize you saw my post… looked like you’d just joined the room before asking your question. Thought I just lucked out
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[AlisonW] Mornin'. That tailscale idea looks sortof interesting but sounds like creating an IP overlay for something that could use MACs (if only they weren't spoofable). I've a fixed /28 so can already use IP checking anyway.
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[jgmac1106] is there a way I can use CSS transitions to to switch font-families on a timer?
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sivy [snarfed] hey i'd like to chat about syndication formatting sometime, looking at bridgy source and I have questions
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KartikPrabhu [jgmac1106]: not that I know of
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KartikPrabhu you could do the timing part with JS, but I don't think fonts "transition"
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KartikPrabhu they are just replaced
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[jgmac1106] seems to be what I was finding, think my only option would be to stack and use opacity
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KartikPrabhu yes, but be careful to provide an accessible text instead of the same stuff repeated twice
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[jgmac1106] ohh shoot....and I was thinking repeating like five six times for a really long poem, is there something I can include to tell a screen reader to ignore?
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KartikPrabhu aria-hidden or something, but haven't tested it to see if it works in all/most readers
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[jgmac1106] thx, for now I think it will stay a static poem, but thought it be neat to switch up fonts
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[KevinMarks] You could use a Variable font and then animate with css https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/CSS_Fonts/Variable_Fonts_Guide
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[jgmac1106] ooh thx Kevin...goes to read more,...I need to get back to playing with fun css animations and transitions
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[snarfed] sivy, sure! any time
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[KevinMarks] https://css-tricks.com/weird-things-variable-fonts-can-do/
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sivy [snarfed] do you have any informal guidelines on how you decide what to syndicate to microblog sites (twitter, mastodon) for a given blog post?
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[tantek] Why POSSE?
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[snarfed] sivy, as in, what text i post? or which sites i post to?
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sivy post content
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[jgmac1106] ugg I am going to get no work done, this lookreally cool. Thank Karthik and Kevin
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sivy my blog posts are in markdown, then rendered to html, but I then strip html for "notes" to microblog sites, but that often loses links, etc, when I might want one of the links to remain attached
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sivy and, mastodon and twitter have different acceptable post content lengths
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sivy so, just trying to come up with a usable "blog post to microblog post" plan
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[KevinMarks] If you write a summary (or mark a section of the post as summary) that can work.
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aaronpk What I normally do is either POSSE just the name of the blog post and a link to my post
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aaronpk or don't POSSE the blog post at all, and instead I write a new note with some short different text and a link and POSSE that instead
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[KevinMarks] Right, or a teaser pull quote
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[snarfed] ^ same
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[snarfed] i generally posse manually for that reason
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[snarfed] bridgy and other tools have automated logic that's ok, but obviously they don't automatically customize like that
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[snarfed] here's the logic: https://brid.gy/about#microformats
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[snarfed] sivy you may be interested in this idea: https://brid.gy/about#silo-content
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[snarfed] there are also more ambitious feature requests like https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/478
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Loqi [cweiske] #478 Automatically create twitter hashtags from tags
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[KevinMarks] Would you use an e-summary to preserve links?
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jamietanna[m] Interesting sounding talk this week at FOSDEM which sounds like an alternative to IndieAuth https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/dip_decentralizing_oauth/
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aaronpk I was supposed to chat with him this week but we missed the call due to timezone confusion
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[jgmac1106] I like the way Known handles hashtags and POSSE
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[snarfed] i haven't thought through "preserving links" in POSSE text, or whether e-summary would help
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[snarfed] happy to hear proposals!
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aaronpk i'm not sure what i would even want that text to look like
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aaronpk only thing i can think is <a href="https://example.com">Example</a> turns into Example (https://example.com) maybe?
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[KevinMarks] Right, a lot of our examples are the other way - autolinking plaintext that has urls in. Which makes sense when the POSSE api doesn't take html anyway
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[tantek] *Let your friends read your posts, their way. https://indieweb.org/POSSE#Why*
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sivy [snarfed] yeah, it's tricky, but I'm trying to find a balance betwen they way *I'd* do it, how the silo's handle it on their own sites, and what a good UX is for readers
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sivy I might parse out links and just include them in the content, and let the silo provide the preview based on which link they prefer
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sivy right now this my micropost logic: https://github.com/sivy/goldfrog/blob/master/pkg/blog/files.go#L283 (it's a bit tortured)
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jamietanna[m] I use Bridgy to POSSE links to blog posts to Twitter, sometimes - that takes the post's `summary` and uses that as the body for the Tweet, which I think is quite nice, as it is a summary of it. And yes, if I want to write something more, I create a note with different content and a link to the post
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sivy yeah bridgy is awesome, but as I'm writing my own software I've decided to just build it all in
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jamietanna[m] Yeah that's fair - was more sharing how that does it as an alternative viewpoint ☺
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[jgmac1106] this stinks: view-source:https://www.inoreader.com/stream/user/1005993829/tag/edu506spring2020 $50 a year to display a feed
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[jgmac1106] feedly bundels don't have an RSS feed so that is out. Does anyone know of a way I can build a public feed from RSS?
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[jgmac1106] ooh wait mblaney I can make a feed in ihazawebsite or do you need to be logged in to see it
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@steveivy Manual Indie Commments Chris Aldrich wrote a blog post about manually adding Webmentions for links to his posts from sites that are not themselves Webmention-enabled. (http://monkinetic.blog/2020/01/31/manual-indie-commments) (twitter.com/_/status/1223292112747122688)
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sivy [chrisaldrich] hey man, my mention did not come through properly: https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/30/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere/ can you look at why? (it's there but no picture, no name or content
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sknebel sivy: did you accidentally send it from your homepage? (Since it links there - still shouldn't show it like that, but...)
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[snarfed] sivy looks like it worked ok. image probably isn't loading because it's http and chris's site is https. and wordpress defaults to rendering mentions as just avatar links, not content. cc GWG
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[snarfed] background in https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/issues/41 . you can optionally show a content snippet, but that's been unreliable at best 😐
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Loqi [snarfed] #41 for mentions, show full content text if it's small enough
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@KensCarTunes ↩️ We also replaced all of the speakers with Alpine's type S series, installed a JL Audio 8" W3v3 MicroSub slot-ported enclosure, & rewired both of the existing Alpine amps. (twitter.com/_/status/1223295487341744128)
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sivy well, i sent the right link:
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sivy Jan 31 17:09:09 li225-158.members.linode.com goldfrogd[4223]: time="2020-01-31T17:09:09Z" level=info msg="Endpoint returned status: 200, {\"link\":\"https:\\/\\/boffosocko.com\\/2020\\/01\\/30\\/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere\\/#comment-277627\",\"source\":\"http:\\/\\/monkinetic.blog\\/2020\\/01\\/31\\/manual-indie-commments\",\"target\":\"https:\\/\\/boffosocko.com\\/2020\\/01\\/30\\/manual-backfeed-in-the-blogosphere\\/\",\"code
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sivy \":\"success\",\"message\":\"Webmention was successful\"}"
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sivy oops
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sivy sorry
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sivy (got used to slack code pasting :) )
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[chrisaldrich] sivy it and through as a mention because it was a basic link. It would have had content if you added u-in-reply-to as a class on the link.
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[chrisaldrich] I'll look at the avatar part when I'm back in the office
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[snarfed] it's http vs https. from firefox dev console: 'Blocked loading mixed active content “http://monkinetic.blog/static/images/sivy_avatar_256.png”'
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[snarfed] which raises a good general question, whether we can do anything about this more broadly on https sites that render webmentions with http photo urls. 🤷
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sivy huh
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sivy if i were't so crap at sys admin i'd have a LE cert already set up
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sknebel local caching is I guess the obvious answer
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sivy I think I'm also going to start auto-adding in-reply-to links in my blog posts
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sknebel although I'm unsure why an image is "active" mixed content
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sknebel sivy: careful with that - you'll probably link lots of stuff you aren't replying to in other posts
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sivy hrm.
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sknebel even yours here IMHO isn't really a reply
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sivy fair
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sknebel i.e. you wouldn't post that text in a comment field on his site, right?
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sivy probably not
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sivy true
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sivy nevertheless, not sure why my name, and the post title, did not come in
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sknebel not sure if chrisaldrich shows more than the small icon for pure mentions
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sknebel -> your sites markup looks completely fine to me
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@dmitshur I’m happy to announce I added new authentication methods to my personal site: IndieAuth and RelMeAuth! #indieweb If you’re curious, try it: https://dmitri.shuralyov.com/login (Your site needs a rel="me" link to your GitHub profile, or an IndieAuth authorization endpoint for it to work.) (twitter.com/_/status/1223304520026992642)
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[snarfed] sivy i expect the did. from before: "wordpress defaults to rendering mentions as just avatar links," ie facepiles, without any text
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[jgmac1106] hey uniformed question on complicated stuff I know nothing about: with seeing dmitri add ability for people to log in to his sites using rel=me could we use other xfn values to do a kind of private posts, like if we both had rel=friend you can see a post on my site but if you logged on and just had rel=me you don't see it?
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] sure! that's basically what people have already tried out, ACLs of domains that are allowed to see each private post, just using rel=friend to determine that list globally as opposed to stored elsewhere and/or per post
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[jgmac1106] ohh okay, thx. For now I just have students use password when they only want to share with class (or when using Known members only)
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GWG Re the WordPress response..work on that is slow due the merge. I want to add more options
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sivy Man POSSE has me posting on my site again //headbangs//
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sivy wondering about reading back in all my 10 years of twitter posts
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sivy that sounds like work though
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aaronpk i keep meaning to do that
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aaronpk and swarm checkins
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sivy I *just* added code to associate syndication IDs to posts, so that will help
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aaronpk the easiest way for me to do that is to write a twitter json to micropub script and send them all in that way
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GWG I need to look at old broken posts
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sivy my posts are all on the FS, so I can write code to simply convert my twitter archive to markdown posts
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sivy then re-index
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GWG I also have an incredible amount of material I want to retropost someday
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aaronpk same, but it's easier for me to let my micropub endpoint do the reindexing :)
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aaronpk also let it build the post on disk in the right format
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aaronpk and deal with associated images and such
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sivy aaronpk - cool
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chrisaldrich wishes for a Twitter export to micropub import for my site (and everyone elses...)
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aaronpk once i finally get around to it i'm gonna make a little command line app that does it. it won't be the most user friendly thing but it will work with any micropub endpoint
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chrisaldrich 🎉
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chrisaldrich Productizing silo export/import into a personal website is a huge win for everyone all around!
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[snarfed] obligatory: https://indieweb.org/backfill
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[snarfed] we should get cleverdevil to add https://cleverdevil.io/2018/freeing-myself-from-facebook, https://github.com/cleverdevil/ditchbook etc to that, among others
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Loqi I agree
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chrisaldrich for alacrity....
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chrisaldrich backfill << https://github.com/cleverdevil/ditchbook
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/cleverdevil/ditchbook" to a new "See Also" section of /backfill https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=68104&oldid=38694
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chrisaldrich backfill << https://cleverdevil.io/2018/freeing-myself-from-facebook
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Loqi ok, I added "https://cleverdevil.io/2018/freeing-myself-from-facebook" to the "See Also" section of /backfill https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=68105&oldid=68104
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[snarfed] thanks chris! i always forget that operator
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chrisaldrich Though, he did put some of it on the /export page as well which has more detail than the backfill one.
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chrisaldrich backfill << https://help.micro.blog/2018/instagram-import/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://help.micro.blog/2018/instagram-import/" to the "See Also" section of /backfill https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=68106&oldid=68105
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[snarfed] ah overlap
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chrisaldrich backfill requires conquering the separate steps of both export and then import...
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chrisaldrich backfill << https://help.micro.blog/2017/wordpress-import/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://help.micro.blog/2017/wordpress-import/" to the "See Also" section of /backfill https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=68108&oldid=68107
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chrisaldrich backfill << https://wordpress.org/plugins/tumblr-importer/ for Importing Tumblr to a WordPress site
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Loqi ok, I added "https://wordpress.org/plugins/tumblr-importer/ for Importing Tumblr to a WordPress site" to the "See Also" section of /backfill https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=68109&oldid=68108
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[LewisCowles] [aaronpk]++ rebase was a doozy. Thanks for pushing the installer
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Loqi [aaronpk] has 57 karma in this channel over the last year (212 in all channels)
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aaronpk ooh can't wait to take a look
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[LewisCowles] I’m going to push from button over again and I think we’re in a place where we’re both happy. Thanks for patience
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aaronpk cool, it'll be good to get this merged, then I can actually try it out and we can see if it needs any more tweaks
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[LewisCowles] Does anyone know what the exception from Laravel’s DB::RAW is. Right now I’m catching \Exception. I know it works but it’s lazy and nasty
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aaronpk i think i matched a more specific one there somwhere
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aaronpk maybe too specific though since i was looking for connection errors
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[LewisCowles] I think it’s the one I’m looking for, but yours was using PDO, whereas mine is testing that laravel can talk using `DATABASE_URL`
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[LewisCowles] I’ll spelunk through their docs
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aaronpk ah right
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aaronpk i think laravel uses PDO under the hood tho
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[LewisCowles] Nice. [aaronpk] ++
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[LewisCowles] I see it now in the exception reporting
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aaronpk cool yeah that's why i used it to begin with
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aaronpk i couldn't find a way to set the config at runtime in a way that the `DB` wrapper would see, so I had to test the connection manually
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[LewisCowles] deploying with the heroku button should set it. Otherwise in the heroku UI you can rename CLEARDB_DATABASE_URL to DATABASE_URL
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aaronpk yeah that works fine for that flow, but when setting up outside of heroku that won't exist
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[LewisCowles] outside of heroku you could `export DATABASE_URL={build-db-uri-string}`
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[LewisCowles] the build db uri string is likely a manual string build
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aaronpk i'm trying to do no command line tho
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aaronpk that's what sent me down this rabbit hole of making the installer in the first place
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[LewisCowles] Ah then unless the environment sets up it won’t use it at all
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aaronpk e.g. extract a .zip onto your shared hosting, then visit the url
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aaronpk yeah i figured that was the case, so dropped down to PDO instead
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[LewisCowles] it’s not just heroku that uses that format for a database URI/L though
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[LewisCowles] Oh, do you mean I broke the UI for manual database in the installer?
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aaronpk i haven't seen today's changes yet but last i saw that still worked
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[LewisCowles] DB check inline
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[LewisCowles] release guarded so that either DB_HOST or DATABASE_URL must be set
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[LewisCowles] It’s mostly restoring your preferences, making changes and then making the inline PoC cleaner.
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[LewisCowles] DB checks more glanceable
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[LewisCowles] order of edits changed so that I’m not changing lines and then their positions
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[LewisCowles] Sadly getting 500 errors, so it’s not okay yet
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[LewisCowles] dotenv restored and only 2 line edit to pivot from checking APP_NAME to checking if SETUP_DONE
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[LewisCowles] hmm. It’s the application encryption key
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aaronpk yeah laravel needs that before it can do anything. that's what this section is for https://github.com/aaronpk/Meetable/blob/master/public/index.php#L22
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aaronpk it tricks it by hardcoding a key and setting the env variable manually
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[LewisCowles] Right… Pretty sure that was patched, but I’ll go through