#dev 2020-02-21

2020-02-21 UTC
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[KevinMarks] Reading scrollback. [jgmac1106] rel-bookmark and rel-canonical are a bit different. Bookmark is defined with a more local scope - the same use case as u-url in an h-entry.
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[KevinMarks] [manton] adding tests to parse microformats from the templates is a really good idea. Mastodon did that and it has stopped them being broken by redesigns. I didn't do this at Blogger, and it was a mistake.
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[KevinMarks] Also, if you can do that as part of the CI, you can encourage people to add them to other Hugo templates
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@tomcritchlowBOT Gonna finally see if I can wrestle webmentions to the news box that wil…. (twitter.com/_/status/1230658777516584962)
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jacky yeah I'm giving up on Elixir lol
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jacky like the debugging support i get in languages like JavaScript and Python makes me sad when I write in Elixir
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jacky hmm actually it looks doable
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jacky but a bit more involved than I'd like: https://crypt.codemancers.com/posts/2017-11-22-elixir-remote-debugging/
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[KevinMarks] Looks like vscode has plugins https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=JakeBecker.elixir-ls
[jgmac1106], [chrisaldrich] and [Michael_Beckwit joined the channel
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jacky lol yup I'm throwing in the towel
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jacky I _might_ be considering php now
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jacky this is wild
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aaronpk one! of! us!
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aaronpk PHP got good while you were away
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[Michael_Beckwit call me crazy, i legit enjoy PHP
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jjuran I realized I never felt comfortable with any of the high-level languages I tried; now I'm developing my own language
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GWG jjuran: That may not work out
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GWG Just due the difficulty of adoption
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aaronpk Languages are fun, but are rarely the barrier to making good products
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jacky ^
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jacky that's the problem tbh
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jacky especially because I want this to be another 'known'-esque project
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jacky but lol
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jacky I ended up going with Rust like a fool
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jacky but I'd have to implement my own mf2 parser
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jacky has not learned his lesson
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jacky nope
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jacky deleted that and ran `composer global require laravel/installer`
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jacky it begins :)
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jacky let's see how far I can get before I land tomorrow night in Austin
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jacky lol I can't install 7.4.3 because oniguruma doesn't exist in ubuntu/universe
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jacky oop, I lied
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aaronpk looks forward to hearing how this goes tomorrow hehe
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jacky might have given up already!
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jacky has not!
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jacky oh this is very easy
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jacky I need to go slow with this tho
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jacky v1 is just getting it to render posts
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jacky very intro-into-language
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jacky nope, gave up and went back to elixir lol
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jacky b/c in working with php, I figured out what was blocking me
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[datashaman] libonig-dev
SpencerDub, swentel, gRegorLove, [pfefferle], [Michael_Beckwit and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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@hasdid #React #Javascript #Automated | Clientside Webmentions in Gatsby https://react.statuscode.com/link/84167/web (twitter.com/_/status/1230760828359462912)
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[KevinMarks] What was blocking you?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "blocking you" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "blocking you is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[datashaman] lol
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[KevinMarks] Hah
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[datashaman] requesting an image also leaves a trace, even cookie-less
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[datashaman] that's how pixel tracking works
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[datashaman] still tracking in a sense, i suppose
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[datashaman] your IP, geolocation, all of that is gleanable from the request logs
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[datashaman] yeah seems harmless to me as well, tbh
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[datashaman] just checked mine
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[datashaman] add an exclusion mebbe?
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beko ah.. can someone please put Loqi on a leash? It spams me about spammers and ommits my messages via Matrix bridge.
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swentel hmm I don't have any problems with that here (73.0)
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[datashaman] me either, using 73.0 as well
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[datashaman] but i'm using default protection, perhaps you've upped the level
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beko I did. It happens when upped.
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swentel strict or custom protection?
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[datashaman] I'm on standard
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beko I dunno how this translates. It says "Improved protection". It's a checkbox [looking like a slider].
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[datashaman] standard + ublock origin + decentraleyes
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beko Just curious why FF is offended by tw avatars now.
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[datashaman] you're right
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[datashaman] switched to strict and twitter is screwed
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beko I mean if this option would start round robin on the user-agent I could understand but this? I don't get and I wonder if Firefox knows something I don't.
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petermolnar FF is offended by a lot of things now; eg hotlinked instagram images
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petermolnar I had to disable protection for rss readers
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petermolnar that said, I think they are right, but I can't always only look at the privacy implications when fetching a content
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sknebel I would guess the issue is that images get referer headers, so they still can correlate visited sites to IPs?
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[KevinMarks] Unless they put a proxy in, you can't avoid giving the server an IP.
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beko so we're back to avatar proxying? :) [x] Yes, please
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GWG beko: It's on my list
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beko GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 26 karma in this channel over the last year (141 in all channels)
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GWG beko: Not sure where
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GWG I need to organize my list
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GWG Right now, improved post UI
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beko no worries. I'm very FOSS on this. If the itch becomes too bad I'll fix it myself eventually :D
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beko GWG: for acceptance I'd put Gutenberg on top btw. That may be part of improved post UI oc course :D I talked to many people and introduced Indieweb. By chance most have already a WordPress and this is sort of a show stopper. Especially since you have to save a post in Gutenberg only once and all post kinds meta data (also syndication) seems to be lost. Requires a very strict workflow if one prefers
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beko Gutenberg for the initial writeup.
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GWG I can't figure out how to do Gutenberg
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GWG In terms of design
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beko wonder how long I can prolong this as well =)
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[jgmac1106] not really an IndieWeb dev question but anyone know CSS animation well? Trying to get a div to fade in and then fade out on 3 second counter but it isn't working: https://glitch.com/edit/#!/join/8ecb9c1e-d3aa-40b3-8876-099e6196d53e
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beko [jgmac1106]: wild guess: you never set opacity of the div.
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beko alas I've not much clue about css animations
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aaronpk beko: you shouldn't be seeing the spam messages in #indieweb, can you send a screenshot of what you're seeing?
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beko aaronpk: https://beko.famkos.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/gnome-shell-screenshot-95NRF0.png this.
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aaronpk Oh weird
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beko May be bridge related.
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aaronpk No that shouldn't be happening, my bad
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beko [jgmac1106]: I'm really not familiar with animations but it looks to me like it really just got an animation-name "image-animation" and does not care about or understand the @keyframes at all.
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aaronpk ah it's cause your [m] nick isn't registered
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aaronpk let me see if i can just make loqi recognize [m] nicks
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beko mhmhm if that helps I added it to the Indieweb wiki long ago aaronpk :D
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beko for reasons of fancy profile picture tho
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[jgmac1106] ahh okay, will keep playing. I am using code from another project that works on img I am trying to animate div with a background img
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[jgmac1106] beko.... it was a missing } grrrrrrr
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[jgmac1106] beko I had to pull it out of my normal CSS for some reason nesting it in my grid was stopping the animation, maybe this annoying reset.css sheet I picked up somewhere and haven't had the time to remove it and deal with restyling...dunno but got poem up: https://jgregorymcverry.com/riskybirdpoem
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beko [jgmac1106]: weird. that should have been highlighted in a huge fat red warning. well glad you found it.
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beko nice one :D
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@JmacDotOrg I didn’t get any cat stickers (I already had one) but I did tell @aaronpk about some nascent plans and he silently handed me a http://webmention.rocks sticker instead. (twitter.com/_/status/1230869802236903434)
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[jgmac1106] and then beko I use an iframe to my own website as I just couldn't get the darn thing to load properly https://jgregorymcverry.com/riskybird
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[schmarty] aaronpk: does aperture support notifications to a client? like via websockets or websub? i'm interested in making a channel that i can share things into with micropub and a service elsewhere will pick them up.
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[schmarty] (it can poll but it's more fun if it's instant!)
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aaronpk It does not yet
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aaronpk there's an issue on microsub to figure out some sort of real-time thing for clients
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aaronpk I suppose I could always make it an aperture feature before trying to solve it in the spec
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aaronpk personally I'm partial to the EventSource API since it's a bit simpler to deploy than web sockets. It's also still based on HTTP so shouldn't be too hard to work into constrained devices that might not be able to run a full websockets library
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aaronpk Adding to the list for weekend projects :-)
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[schmarty] oh right! i keep forgetting about EventSource
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aaronpk Heh that's even a use case in the moz wiki docs "For example, EventSource is a useful approach for handling things like social media status updates, news feeds..."
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aaronpk https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/EventSource
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/poetryportpoems
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fpoetryportpoems
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[jgmac1106] duh missing <p class="e-content">
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[schmarty] continuing from main indieweb channel. this ScrollToTextFragment "privacy leak" fear sounds like it requires some _work_. like you're listening in on someone's network traffic, watching every resource they load. they load a page that happens to dynamically load resources depending on where you scroll on the page (e.g. lazyload images). you time how quickly they fetch those resources, indicating that maybe they clicked on a link with a
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[schmarty] fragment??
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[schmarty] apparently a similar trick can be pulled by embedding a page in an iframe and using the IntersectionObserver API to note when a particular thing scrolls into view
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[schmarty] so the complaint that the articles refer to definitely don't have anything to do with fragments in server logs.
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GWG Hmm.. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2020/02/safer-location-access.html
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[schmarty] just got an email from glitch.com announcing that paid plans are coming for more memory, "always on" (versus sleeping after 5 minutes of inactivity), and no rate limits. no timeframe, and it seems like it will go through a beta testing period that hasn't started, yet.
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[jeremycherfas] There’s something I do not understand about Apache access logs. If I have a redirect in the `htaccess` and despite that, the file does not actually exist, should the log show a 301 for the redirect, or a 404?
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[jeremycherfas] I mean, it *is* showing a 301; why not a 404?
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sknebel because it sent a 301 to the client
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sknebel assuming I understand you correctly, [jeremycherfas]
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[jeremycherfas] Yeah, I thought that would be it. The client got a 301, and even if that ended up in a 404, that would not be relayed to the client. I thought I might be able to search for posts giving a 404, but I guess that’s not going to be possible.
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@maaiiya8 My blog has a new design and Webmention support now! Time to write more! https://phantasiai.dev/ (twitter.com/_/status/1230907526595543040)
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@maaiiya8 My blog has new design and Webmention support now! Time to write more! https://phantasiai.dev/webmention-support/ (twitter.com/_/status/1230907715876048896)
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@maaiiya8 Thanks to @swyx 's post about webmentions my blog has Webmention support now (and new design)! Time to write more! https://phantasiai.dev/webmention-support/ (twitter.com/_/status/1230908219851042818)
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[jgmac1106] hey webmention.io is telling me I have no webmentions on my source here: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2020/02/15/the-rest-of-the-goal-setting-pictures-from-indiewebcamp-navrongo how else can I delete webmentions....delete the u-in-reply-to and then resend in Telegraph?
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Our event https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/file/b933287b6ed2efcf1f30da1beeb6703d/thumb.png
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: once the browser follows the 301 and fetches the page that 404s you would see an error for that in the log though
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sknebel (assuming it's the same server of course)
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[jeremycherfas] Yeah, but I’m not. Oh well, not that important.
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sknebel [jeremycherfas]: do you have separate access- and error-logs?
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sknebel 301 is the former, 404 the latter
[tantek], KartikPrabhu, Discord[m]1, HeysteinDiscord[, buztedDiscord[m], felixschlDiscord, CantiTurtleCoinD, jamietanna[m], wourslerDiscord[, ritewhose[m], Rick[m], prtfw[m] and dostDiscord[m] joined the channel
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@reactdaily Clientside Webmentions in Gatsby: https://sung.codes/blog/2020/02/17/clientside-webmentions-in-gatsby/ (twitter.com/_/status/1230922386423328773)
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[jgmac1106] sivy can you link to this in yoru tweet monkinetic txt-dea0ed8
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sivy link to what
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[jgmac1106] I thought the stuff in (monkinetic txt-dea0ed8) was supposed to be permalink to your site
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sivy well...
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[jgmac1106] I want to add you to my following page but cant find the site from the tweet
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sivy its a permashortid
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sivy ah
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[jgmac1106] Who is sivy?
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sivy http://monkinetic.blog/
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Loqi Steve Ivy
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[jgmac1106] yeah can you link the text to: http://monkinetic.blog/2020/02/21/#txt-dea0ed8
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Loqi [Steve Ivy] I added an edit button for Notes on this site and it’s like #twitter only awesome #indieweb
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sivy this is what I was doing https://indieweb.org/permashortcitation
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sivy but admit that i should probably use the entire domain
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[jgmac1106] ohh yes but the link doesn;t work is all
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[jgmac1106] and thanks for the link
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[jgmac1106] ohh non hyperlinked
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[jgmac1106] "E.g. there's an unspoken convention on Twitter that a link in a tweet (especially at the _end_ of a tweet) should provide more information." not sure this is at all true for most corners of the web
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sivy that's because it's a duplicate of the entire post
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sivy there's no "more..."
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[jgmac1106] ohh yes, your design decision in the end. Atleast I know how to find your links
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[jgmac1106] I don't do more and I include the link because my goal is to get people reading websites, but it is a personal choice. I had never heard of permashortcitation but I don't hang out in the dev circles on twitter
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sivy well, the perma-cite thing is more of an indie web thing
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sivy because otherwise the "orginal" is on twitter
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[tantek] There’s no such thing as generic trust so stop trying to model it with markup
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[tantek] For all the scroll to text fragment handwringing, see logs for all my prompts about Fragmentions like a month or so ago and issues and such
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[tantek] If you want to help out, see current Fragmentions issues and pleas comment or suggest spec changes accordingly
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[tantek] I’ve filed a bunch of issues that no one has responded to.
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[tantek] Less handwriting, more thoughtful consideration of how to fix Fragmentions issues so we can get it adopted in browsers
wakest[m], MatthDiscord[m], CryptoEmpressDis, celsoDiscord[m]1, foxcoolDiscord[4, RyonezCoruscare0, koalalorenzoDisc, TroyDiscord[m], pps96Discord[m], doorknob88Discor, eddyDiscord[m], HielleMatrixBrid, neilDiscord[m], corylDiscord[m], Googol30Discord[, matsugenDiscord[, sfromentDiscord[, dy5es41Discord[m, mikeal[m], sacha[m], SpicoliWhiteDisc, AblibuDiscord[m], Lilz|BetaMe[m], efnDiscord[m], betamosDiscord[m, Clment[m], gabrielbaron16Di, SirMemesALotDisc, hvergara[m], SomeguyDiscord[m, maparent[m], KubeDiscord[m], paulmahoneDiscor, AraratDiscord[m], lauren|Microspon, RomaricDiscord[m, beko[m], swedneck, scandichainDisco, swedneck[GMT1]Di, h2Discord[m], MisterGoreDiscor, cam4507[m], Oxy[m], Tianyi[m]1, edrex, HexDiscord[m], Rick[m], icaruszDiscord[m, n9tDiscord[m], JonwelDiscord[m], Senshi[m], angrygnuDiscord[, SmileRobotDiscor, funwhilelostDisc, JohnnyMilkshakes, HooftlyDiscord[m, megadogberthehim, ianfixesDiscord[, borismusDiscord[, combrayDiscord[m, LokeLDiscord[m], ScottSmileyDisco, dqxDiscord[m], armaniferranteDi, khalnayakDiscord, peterkDiscord[m], Ja3oodDiscord[m], CyOp0x00Discord[, nilocDiscord[m], mZDiscord[m], EatsDiscord[m], denzukoDiscord[m, stuartDiscord[m], DiscordBridge[m4, Giyomu[m], mZDiscord[m]1, WesDiscord[m], aeddiDiscord[m], PhillmacDiscord[, obernardovieiraD, TH0RynDiscord[m], RealSnazzy[m], CharlieRaptoreum, olizillaDiscord[, JustMaier[m], haywirezDiscord[, new0ne[m], planetary_devDis, gunttedDiscord[m, cannabysDiscord[, Dazuck-3BoxDisco, NastyEbilPiwateD, pvienhageDiscord, ShmultzDiscord[m, SenshiDiscord[m], PermawebMatrixBr, PhiDiscord[m], nek1113Discord[4, cwDiscord[m], allgoDiscord[m], icaruszDiscord[4, CatManDoooDiscor, achingbrainDisco, nek11Discord[m], Lilz|BetaMeDisco, xlcDiscord[m], ShruthiDiscord[m, thomasDiscord[m], Lolicon[m], LordFenixNCDisco, te0dDiscord[m], jenncloudDiscord, chrisDiscord[m], gtsDiscord[m], wngrDiscord[m], kppDiscord[m]1, DamirDiscord[m], JeffMaherVegas[m, WidgetBotiocli1[, JoejoeDiscord[m], Sean|FortmaticDi, psyonityDiscord[, FranklinDiscord[, mattcDiscord[m], grvhiDiscord[m], wossDiscord[m], modigDiscord[m], HeysteinDiscord[, Imnotsoimpressed, MichaelTenDiscor, richtercamdenDis, Valium[m], godparticleDisco, sachaDiscord[m], jonbvDiscord[m], dunks411Discord[, ShadowLingDiscor, malaclypsDiscord, tplookerDiscord[, TryptophanDiscor, RomainDiscord[m], JD9Discord[m], AtiqDiscord[m], fozzie[m], vasaDiscord[m], MMMMaggieDiscord, Tianyi[m], TimeOnDiscord[m], DerekDiscord[m], gregjeanmartDisc, fredcy_, M9uapawDiscord[m, boomshroomDiscor, kanejDiscord[m], M[AXEL]Darr[m], ChubbyBoyDiscord, OboDiscord[m], AmineDiscord[m], tttDiscord[m], aphelionzDiscord, JorropoDiscord[m, M9672Discord[m], leoalvarezhDisc4, NetherwolfDiscor, chris[m], prtfw[m], weedDiscord[m], appDiscord[m], chmanieDiscord[4, CantiTurtleCoin[, gorhgorh[m], pierreboc[m], SuikaDiscord[m], bltavaresDiscord, cwchristerwDisco, HuurooDiscord[m], cardDiscord[m], captain-nemoDisc, XierumengDiscord, KYZITEMELOS93Dis, SpaceOutlawDisco, mattsseDiscord[m, KisulkenDiscord[, sfroment[m], Sm03leBr00tDisco, romaric[m], SweatDiscord[m], foxcoolDiscord[m, Luna14Discord[m], tom85[m], SteffDiscord[m], johanherman[m], mhzDiscord[m], sblinnDiscord[m], CathyLDiscord[m], gumshedDiscord[m, kerlanTDiscord[m, UsDiscord[m], MesaDiscord[m] and [amy] joined the channel
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[amy] hi all! Does anyone have an email hosting service that they like? Working on a catering website this weekend for a friend who is not super computer literate, but I’d like to not use g suite.
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[jgmac1106] your values or clients? The $10 a month for a business is really feature packed for freinds who aren't computer literate
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[jgmac1106] most of the shared hosts and domain registers offer email service as part of their plan
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[tantek] what is email hosting
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Loqi email hosting is a service for receiving and sending email on the internet https://indieweb.org/email-hosting
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] always check the wiki first 🙂
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[tantek] [amy] there's a few listed on that page, and a few more at https://indieweb.org/email#Email_Services_by_Type. FWIW I've heard good things about Fastmail
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[amy] thank you so much!
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[amy] it’s my values getting in the way of convenience 😛
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[jgmac1106] wiki++
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Loqi wiki has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (1 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] as a heads up, we shy away from Threads in Slack as they do not work with IRC and matrix bridges
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jacky ^
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aaronpk I wish there was a slack setting to disable threads
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jacky so something randomly I think about
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jacky is 'absorbing'/adopting client styling in my reader
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jacky like if someone designs their site in a particular way, I'd want to take the _minimal_ styling I can from it and add it into the reader so I can see it in a "minified" form but also taking on the author's design choices
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jacky A 'cheap' version of this would be to just load the post in a iframe
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jacky but the goal of this is to not just _discard_ everything that they've done on their site when it comes to presentation
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jacky obvs a complex problem but interesting
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jacky lol yup wink
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jacky that's probably the most immediate! but I haven't the faintest idea on how to do that
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jacky nah like how do you determine what fonts, colors are being used _specifically_ on an element? I can _think_ of a way using the browser's introspection tools and via the DOM's API
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jacky but doing that on the fly for each post is expensive
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jacky yeah hard requirement there
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jacky but just a spitball
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[KevinMarks] Tantek experimented with per post styling a while ago, but the browser support wasn't great
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jacky I figured it'd be just associating a post type and then having some inheritable CSS attributes
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jacky eh
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jacky on the client side at least
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jacky what I'm interested in now is abstracting how indieauth on my site works so I can rely on an external provider
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[schmarty] jacky: sounds like a fun project for a headless browser setup like puppeteer
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[schmarty] i sometimes wish for an mf2 parser that would also give you back reference to the DOM
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sknebel [schmarty]: wouldn't be too difficult to add to at least some of them
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jacky [schmarty]: indeed!
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[schmarty] would make sense for any that already make use of a DOM to do their work
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jacky I'm trying to not actually look into this and just take notes
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sknebel (making that easier is on my list for mf2py, but realistically there's more important things to tackle in it I'm not getting to...)
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jacky ^
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jacky priorities++
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Loqi priorities has 1 karma over the last year
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jacky only 1?! lol
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jacky priority++
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Loqi priority has 1 karma over the last year
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jacky lol
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[KevinMarks] Looks like scoped styles got junked https://caniuse.com/#feat=style-scoped
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[schmarty] could be fun tho' to note, for example, what elements are used in the inner/outer HTML for the mf2 properties you'd display (name and content would probably be enough to start)
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[jeremycherfas] I do! That will help. [sknebel]++
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Loqi [sknebel] has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (53 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] What is custom post style?
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Loqi Custom post style is the practice of styling individual posts differently from the rest of the site styles https://indieweb.org/custom_post_style
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[schmarty] then use a headless browser to get some of the computed styles on those elements in each context like font properties, line spacing, color, etc.
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jacky [KevinMarks]: I'm talking about doing something like `div.post__Reply .customClass` where the __Reply bit is dynamically defined depending on the post type
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jacky I use that for my site largely for debugging reasons
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jacky but I can use it to target what things would look like per post
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jacky that actually makes the styling differences for https://v2.jacky.wtf/stream?type=like vs https://v2.jacky.wtf/stream?type=bookmark (or others)
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[jeremycherfas] [amy] one vote from a satisfied user for Fastmail.
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[KevinMarks] I did the iframe thing before - it works better if the page has responsive design http://pageaspreview.herokuapp.com/
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jacky iframes fall apart with CSP tho, it's not reliable
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jacky [amy]: me too! I've been using fastmail for ~2 years now
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[jgmac1106] I had to do an iframe today, on my own website, because I couldn't get two of my stylesheets to play well together
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[jgmac1106] when ever I mix CSS Grid and CSS animation bad things happen to me
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[Michael_Beckwit ouch that’s rough
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[Michael_Beckwit i was doing an inspect on an google ad the other day and it had like 10 nested iframes
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@DSuperia I enjoy keeping pocket sized slaves in minion jars until I need a lil snack OR need something only a microsub can do. I like to rub your teensy squirming body on my lips as I decide if youre worthy of even being in my belly squirming. Giantess • FemDom • Real-Time Dominatrix (twitter.com/_/status/1230972082160373765)
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[Michael_Beckwit my word
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[chrisaldrich] Microsub Twitter search does pull in the most random things...
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[Michael_Beckwit indeed
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[jgmac1106] that has to be the strangest ever
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[jgmac1106] just a poem: https://jgregorymcverry.com/riskybird
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jacky lmfao
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[tantek] [jeremycherfas],jacky could you add Fastmail and yourselves as examples / happy customers to /email_hosting ?
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[tantek] FYI pretty sure I got my custom post styling to work across all browsers, I stopped depending on style scoped quite quickly
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jacky what is email hosting
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Loqi email hosting is a service for receiving and sending email on the internet https://indieweb.org/email-hosting
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jacky ah a dash
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[tantek] oops my bad
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@abuiles ↩️ @dwr Interesting! Have you play around with webmentions? (twitter.com/_/status/1230994033259970560)
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