#dev 2020-03-04

2020-03-04 UTC
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[tantek] From 2018 yet a still a good summary of a still existing problem: https://alistapart.com/article/cult-of-the-complex/
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[chrisaldrich] GWG, that thread Jacky just shared has an interesting article on time for you: https://zachholman.com/talk/utc-is-enough-for-everyone-right
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[KevinMarks] He says to store timezone strings rather than offsets, which seems like a shame as then your offsets can change over time
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Ruxton isn't that the point though?
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Ruxton if you store strings like "Australia/Perth" then when it's offset gets changed in TZ library, your app uses it
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Ruxton but problem is that the string names change too
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[KevinMarks] Right, but when the oz gov decides to move the daylight savings start because of some sporting event, your event moves too. You might want this, you might not.
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Ruxton true, this is where all the complexities of timezones lie, peple decided to do something because.
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GWG I have a lot of issues with timezones all the time.
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GWG I store timezone strings on posts in order to show what timezone they were posted in
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GWG I'm just happy that rarst is leading the move in WordPress to use DateTime objects
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GWG It solved a lot of my problems
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[LewisCowles] [KevinMarks] if you store the offset for the time, and only update if prior to that time the offset changes, you're good. It's more of a problem to have past dates using modern time offsets as it makes information inaccurate.
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[LewisCowles] The purpose behind storing a canonical date-format in a database is just not having to transform when comparing. I think what they are trying to get away from is that we both store 2020-03-04 + some time, and it means different things, so needs complex transformation based on another field.
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[LewisCowles] UTC might not be _the_ answer, but it's at least _a consistent_ answer
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[KevinMarks] the comments about future recurring events make sense - create them on a rolling basis, which is in effect what we're doing
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[LewisCowles] Some thought has going into this from ISO
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[LewisCowles] Specifically [date|time]+ interval syntax
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[LewisCowles] It only kicks the ball down the line though
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[LewisCowles] at some point a concrete datetime needs to be issued, and then someone needs to ensure there is reasonably up to date tzinfo
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[KevinMarks] Broken Hill can have a little timezone, as a treat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Australia#Anomalies
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[LewisCowles] This is why aliens won't talk to us
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[LewisCowles] slightly joking
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[g33kcentric] Hi all! I'm starting to build my own micropub bits, and was wondering if anyone had any postman/insomonia/HAR requests for different micropub submissions (adding a note, an image etc)
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[datashaman] i've found this quite useful for generating micropub content.
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[datashaman] https://micropublish.net/
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[datashaman] it has a preview button which shows you the post submission which you could copy into your fixtures
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[datashaman] https://micropub.rocks/ will get you up and running very fast as well
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[g33kcentric] yeah i had a little bit of trouble getting micropub rocks up and running locally, bu i will give micropublish a go, thanks very much!
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[datashaman] i used micropub.rocks as it is there, nothing local. still works. auth is a pita but if you keep the session alive it's fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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[g33kcentric] my internet connection at home is pretty fubar so i prefer to do things locally 😕
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[jgmac1106] If you have a wikimedia/wikipedia account and support what [Sadik_Shahadu] and his team are doing in Ghana please consider endorsing project: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Global_Open_Initiative/Wikidata_GLAMs_Campaign,_Ghana#Endorsements
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vika_nezrimaya ?q=food
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Loqi vika_nezrimaya: swentel left you a message on 2020-01-06 at 1:29pm UTC: see https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_contacts also
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vika_nezrimaya Has anyone ever implemented ?q=food in Micropub?
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vika_nezrimaya If not I am planning to be the first one (but it's ok if you steal this idea :3)
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vika_nezrimaya I know a food diary/calorie counter silo and I'm thinking of an IndieWeb replacement
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vika_nezrimaya What is food
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Loqi Food is a post type that represents eating or drinking particular food or drink https://indieweb.org/food
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vika_nezrimaya Thanks, Loqi! I need to log into the wiki now to add this to my personal page so I won't forget about it and so somebody could kick my lazy butt if I do
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Loqi you're welcome
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[grantcodes] There are already queries for post types, is that what you want?
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vika_nezrimaya Whew, done, now I won't forget it
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beko vika_nezrimaya: highly interested in this too. We've some thoughts going for a calories app + web interface.
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Zegnat I feel like I eat at too many places where it would be too hard to get calorie counts for that to be worth it.
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Zegnat I do love weight tracking though
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jacky same
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jacky I end up meal prepping like a mad person more often than not
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jacky might make up for not checking in a lot (wouldn't check into my apartment complex lol)
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[tantek] I've done the calorie counting thing for like 6 months. super hard to do for most foods, and it had the inconvenient side-effect of causing me to restrict myself to only countable foods which is really not the purpose
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[tantek] I have mixed feelings about what to do with calorie counts in UIs, including in recipes etc.
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[snarfed] yes! quantified self, tracking, counting can be nice/useful hobbies for some people, but definitely aren't universal goals or appropriate (or even helpful) for everyone. https://snarfed.org/2013-09-24_the-unquantified-self
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[snarfed] !tell jamietanna hi! i'm hoping to get oauth-dropins and granary releases out soon. still interested? if you are, i think there's just one issue we'd want to knock out first: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/191
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [jamietanna] #191 Meetup.com: Modify error message when RSVPing to non-Meetup event
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[tantek] New constraint for future protocols, and iterating on current protocols: make them work reliably with *sometimes* available servers. That is, servers that don't resolve DNS or 404 most of the time, but are say at least available a few cumulative hours per day.
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[tantek] use-case: web servers running on our mobile devices transiently connected to Wifi, resolving via dynamic DNS
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[tantek] The importance of good microcopy in your UI: https://twitter.com/slbedard/status/1235280734551715840
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@slbedard Infection via UX Design https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESSYDHLWAAMXQbk.png (twitter.com/_/status/1235280734551715840)
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[tantek] (see image)
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aaronpk omg
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[tantek] so good (bad)
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[tantek] classic example of, hey, this template with {{topic}} will work just fine!
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[KevinMarks] I have a Web server on my phone but no dyn dns
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[KevinMarks] Hmm. I am going to need router config for this
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[tantek] you may not have access to the router wherever your phone is, e.g. Starbucks wifi
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[KevinMarks] I can do dyndns updates, but I can't get the router to port forward. I suspect this is going to need more work
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[tantek] or a different port
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[KevinMarks] Aha http://kevinmarks.hopto.org:12345/
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[tantek] considering that Skype, FT, FBM, IG are all able to receive inbound requests without reconfiguring a router, there's got to be a way
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[KevinMarks] Though that only works if we're on the same local WiFi
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[KevinMarks] This is going to need some kind of stun trickery
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[schmarty] tantek: i think a lot of those "apps catch inbound stuff" are built on Google/Apple's centralized notification services.
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[tantek] nah, you can get Skype calls on your laptop at a Starbucks without any notification services
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[schmarty] laptop yes!
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[tantek] they've definitely all solved this WITHOUT any 3rd party centralized services
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[tantek] that's my point
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[schmarty] phone: probably not!
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[schmarty] oh oh, i misread your earlier point.
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[schmarty] i do wonder how that works these days. is uPNP still a _thing_?
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jacky this component set looks so nice https://tailwindui.com/
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jacky like https://tailwindui.com/components
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[KevinMarks] I wonder if an ipv6 address would route
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jacky I'm _tempted_ to buy this and just redo all of my assets with it
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dansup jacky: its nice but keep in mind half of the components are not implemented
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dansup I'd share it but its not like RefactoringUI, you need to login and copy each component html
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[tantek] jacky, I'd be curious to understand your UI component needs from a perspective of "what from 'plain HTML' is missing?" as I'd like to improve the default UI component situation
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[tantek] we can chat tonight at HWC SF 🙂
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[jgmac1106] ..now that's how you do an invite....assume guest is already coming
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Zegnat I think jacky already said he was coming?
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[jgmac1106] not that I see yet...https://events.indieweb.org/2020/03/homebrew-website-club-san-francisco-KTBJlSw7JJKm
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[email096] Well, I’ll be there tonight
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aaronpk Relevant: https://twitter.com/bradfitz/status/1231282033625747456
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@bradfitz Tailscale users: "Cool, you do Wireguard!" @Tailscale in reality looking like: 95% NAT traversal & other packet routing, 4% oauth/2FA stuff, 1% WireGuard on top. (And the 95% part ain't done yet.) (twitter.com/_/status/1231282033625747456)
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[yo] yeah I can’t RSVP from my site yet lol
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[yo] I broke how I did `q=post-types` and now no micropub client will work
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[jgmac1106] Can you telegraph the RSVP?
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Zegnat aaronpk: https://twitter.com/apenwarr/status/1231290854192578562 is the part there that I identify with.
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@apenwarr @davidcrawshaw @bradfitz @Tailscale Strictly speaking I think they are all spec compliant because the oauth2 spec left out so much stuff. Same net result, except this way all the providers have the moral high ground. (twitter.com/_/status/1231290854192578562)
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aaronpk oh no
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aaronpk yes very true don't tell anyone i said that
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sknebel We'll just quote an anonymous okta employee /s
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk ohno
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Zegnat Source: this one person on #indieweb-dev
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Zegnat My eyes were just drawn to that specific comment, hehe. I do like the idea of Tailscale
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aaronpk #legit
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[yo] [jgmac1106] telegraph wouldn’t solve the problem: I need to fix my site so a micropub client can handle sending a rsvp
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[jgmac1106] Understood, but not fix your problem but at least send the webmention for you... If the markup is correct
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[jgmac1106] Or do you have no publishing UI beyond micropub clients?
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[yo] The latter, no
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Zegnat Wow. The experience of getting browser extension preferences to match with the browser’s UI is horrendous :o There is an option to have it use `browser_style` but that seems close to useless, at least in Firefox
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Zegnat Oh, never mind, apparently I should not use browser_style at all, as it will render the preferences completely inaccessible. The more you learn when you go to file a bug … https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1466420
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Zegnat For anyone who does add-on development for Firefox ^^^
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[KevinMarks] So would tailscale solve my serving from my phone problem?
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aaronpk No idea, but I can tell you that if you can make a wireguard vpn connection you could set up something on that side to route traffic to your phone as long as that side has a public IP address
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aaronpk I'm doing that in a situation where I don't control the router on the internet connection of a device
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