#dev 2020-03-26

2020-03-26 UTC
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aaronpk [eddie]: hey! if you get a chance to re-publish to the iOS app store that'd be awesome! I can't get it on my new ipad right now!
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[eddie] Ahhhh yeah 👍
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[eddie] aaronpk Should be back in the app store in the next 24 hours. Hopefully sooner, but you know CDNs
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aaronpk yay! [eddie]++
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Loqi [eddie] has 12 karma in this channel over the last year (27 in all channels)
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Loqi woot
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[eddie] Now if I could just get my server fixed with that much ease lol
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jacky looking at micropub-extensions
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jacky I think the list of list of contacts can be fetched from `q=contact`
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jacky like via `q=contact&list=${NAME}`
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jacky hmm probably `q=contact&type=feed&search=$NAME`
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jacky and have `type` default to card to keep support the same
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jacky that way, a site can store the lists in any kind of format necessary and send it back to itself (very similiar to syndication using URLs)
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@jhpbsagt Just saw this on Amazon: JL Audio ACP208LG-W3v3 500W MicroSub+ Amplified Subwoofer Ported-Enclosure System with Dual 8" 8W3v3 Subwoofer by JL AUDIO https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B8P2C06?tag=aglkksks-20 (twitter.com/_/status/1243037051194183681)
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swentel morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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[LewisCowles] https://ar.al/2020/03/25/apple-just-killed-offline-web-apps-while-purporting-to-protect-your-privacy-why-thats-a-bad-thing-and-why-you-should-care/
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vika_nezrimaya Good morning IndieWeb!
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vika_nezrimaya We have access tokens, but we don't usually make them expire. How would IndieAuth be extended if tokens were allowed to expire? I assume we would need some sort of a refresh token that could be used to expand an access token's lifespan. Pinging @aaronpk because he knows a lot about OAuth :3
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[LewisCowles] vika, I think it's broken if tokens never expire.
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[LewisCowles] OAuth generally expires. expires_in is a recommendation https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749
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sknebel vika_nezrimaya: you probably can take the mechanism as it is from OAuth, without anything special for IndieAuth
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sknebel the related bits of the flow are I think all pretty much unmodified
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vika_nezrimaya yeah except pretty much nobody does that
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sknebel sure, but you asked "how to do it"
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vika_nezrimaya oh well, most apps would probably ignore the refresh token and just wonder why suddenly the micropub server started 403ing them
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vika_nezrimaya there are some movements on IndieWeb spec GitHub to clarify how apps need to act with respect to expiring tokens
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vika_nezrimaya but I'm 99% sure nobody implemented this
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GWG vika_nezrimaya: No one has. But if someone wanted to restart the conversation...
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vika_nezrimaya Well, maybe I just might do it - by implementing token expiration in my token endpoint and forcing every client I've ever used to implement it either by making a PR (in case of my own Kittybox Companion or maybe Indigenous) or filing an issue (in case of Quill)
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vika_nezrimaya and obviously documenting it on the wiki
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sknebel right, that was my point, it's fairly clear what to do, so if you want it just do it :)
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GWG Having a client and an endpoint support it would be a good first step to encouraging others
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GWG I actually have the code for expiring tokens in my endpoint, because I have to expire authorization codes, and they use the same data structure. It would be trivial to amend.
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@aswath ↩️ there is an universal identifier - OpenID/Indieauth/WebID. It is also portable from service to service, unlike email id (twitter.com/_/status/1243187322797121536)
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Zegnat Hmm. I think I revoke all my tokens by default after 7 days. And I could set custom revoke dates in my db. But I do not actually communicate an expires_in field, haha
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Zegnat Should probably add that
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Zegnat https://github.com/Zegnat/php-mintoken/blob/master/endpoint.php#L54-L58
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GWG I actually have a UI to revoke tokens not used in X days
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Zegnat But you can’t have a expires_in for that, GWG, as it is instant. Which is always a possibility. But I actually do have the possibility to set a future date and have tokens expire then. So I could show that in the JSON response
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GWG Zegnat: I could add a column and let you set expiry in the UI
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GWG As a prerequisite to setting it by default
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GWG I do that for authorization codes already
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aaronpk it's fine to not return expires_in
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aaronpk and as long as you have a way to revoke tokens, and if you're validating them while checking for revoked tokens, it's okay to have them not expire automatically
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aaronpk the expires_in is really for when you know you're using refresh tokens so you can communicate the automatic expiry proactively
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aaronpk and yes, indieauth can use oauth 2 refresh tokens without any special considerations for indieauth
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GWG aaronpk: But someone has to be the first to do it
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aaronpk or nobody does, because nobody cares enough about the benefits :)
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GWG Yes, but several expressed interest
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swentel GWG, opened issues for Drupal (not much needed there) and Indigenous
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swentel been in my mind for a while actually
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swentel *on
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swentel no timeframe though ;)
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swentel although it looks like we'll be stuck until april 30, so lot's of free time ;)
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swentel *a lot
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swentel I did order a 7x7 and 8x8 cube yesterday, that might distract me completely heh
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GWG swentel: We could plan some features together like we did in the past
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GWG Implement on both sides
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swentel works for me
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swentel off for a walk now though, working day is done
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GWG Any particular features?
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swentel well, to be honest, I don't have that many features in my mind anymore
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@daiyitastic ↩️ sweet! when I first hung out with the Indieweb people a couple years back, the client-side webmentions problem was tough to figure out. Looks like it's time for a revisit :D (twitter.com/_/status/1243232641068879873)
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@pressedconf 18:30 PM It's @chrisaldrich with Webmentions with WordPress for Open Pedagogy https://2020.pressedconf.org/?easyconfpr=webmentions-with-wordpress-for-open-pedagogy #doooo #IndieWeb #OpenPedagogy #WebMention #WebStandards #PressEdConf20 (twitter.com/_/status/1243243823548989442)
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@ChrisAldrich Hello everyone! My name is @ChrisAldrich. You can find more about me on my website https://boffosocko.com. Today I'll be talking about Webmentions for #OpenPedagogy. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769669/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243243999747387392)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Some of these new W3C specs include Webmention, Micropub, WebSub, IndieAuth, and Microsub. Today I'll talk abut Webmentions which are simply site-to-site @mentions or notifications which don't involve corporate social media silos. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769672/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243244696643629056)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Many common content management systems support Webmention either out of the box or with plugins including: our friend #WordPress, Drupal, WithKnown, Grav, and many others. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769673/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243244973425717248)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ The Webmention Plugin (surprise!) enables this quickly on WordPress. I also highly recommend the Semantic Linkbacks plugin for improved presentation of notifications in your comments section. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769674/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243245217983021057)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Imagine Webmentions being used for referencing journal articles, academic samizdat, or even #OER? Suggestions and improvement could accumulate on the original content itself rather than being spread across dozens of social silos on the web. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769681/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243247051044839424)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ There's current research, coding work, and thinking going on within the #IndieWeb community to extend ideas like private webmentions and limiting audience so that this sort of interaction can happen in more secluded online spaces. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769682/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243247337645932545)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I've also been able to use my WordPress site to collect posts relating to participation in #PressEdConf20 & #Domains19 including syndications to Twitter & responses that returned using webmentions from http://Brid.gy via Twitter. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769684/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243247581129392128)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I've also been able to use my WordPress site to collect posts relating to participation in #PressEdConf20 & #Domains19 including syndications to Twitter & responses that returned using webmentions from http://Brid.gy via Twitter. #PressEdConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/55769684/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243247581129392128)
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@ChrisAldrich ⚡️ Missed my presentation for #PressEdConf20 on Twitter earlier and want to read it all bundled up instead? You can enjoy the Twitter moment version if you like: https://twitter.com/i/moments/1243289403520200704 or read the "article" version on my own website: https://boffosocko.com/2020/03/26/webmentions-with-wordpress-for-open-pedagogy/ (twitter.com/_/status/1243295056640880640)
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jacky random: can I use bridgy to have someone 'like' a post?
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jacky like if I wanted to do some dance with my site, an intermediary and some silo (Twitter, Tumblr, etc)
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jacky checks docs
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jacky hmm
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jacky https://brid.gy/about#registration-api
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jacky I wanna see if I can have some sort of middle application that uses bridgy to let me build a "like" button for my site
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jacky replying to it would be more difficult and would require more of a dance tbh
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jacky files away for later
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[snarfed] jacky: sure! i think eg tantek's site does this via twitter. maybe other sites too. see the Like, Repost, Reply links at the bottom of eg https://tantek.com/2020/085/t1/make-difference-coronavirus-covid19
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] Read this by my pal Erika RN: Make a difference (save lives) in the #CoronaVirus #Covid19 crisis https://www.facebook.com/erikalwhite/posts/10163301256025010 E.g. * Donate unused PPE(N95…) to local healthcare * Wash hands; 🚫🤭 * Stay 🏠 * Se...
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[tantek] yup, webactions with Twitter fallbacks
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Loqi [tantek]: [LewisCowles] left you a message 1 day, 11 hours ago: I'd suggest that only accounts for the case it's an org, not a person having a logo and avatar.
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jacky I'd have to use some JavaScript to make those twitter intent URLs
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jacky but that's kinda okay
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jacky tbh I might go the low-code route and have that stuff done elsewhere
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jacky like the underlying URL link to a small thing I write that can let people pick their preferred service and finish there
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jacky and with js, it'll lean on web-actions
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[tantek] jacky, I liked that I was able to do the minimum viable fallback with "just" links (no JS)
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jacky I can't do that because I don't have a internal concept of Twitter
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jacky _but_
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jacky I _can_ if I have something externally do that work for me tbh
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jacky like if it's `https://reply-to.jacky.wtf/by/liking?url=$URL` (lol at the URL)
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jacky and that'll (on first attempt) show where you can 'natively' like it (if I syndicate to mastodon, it can prompt them to sign in; twitter, with an intent URL)
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jacky and on the second time, with consent, it can automatically redirect them along
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jacky I think that'd be enough
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jacky anything/anyone wanting more control than that should get their own site ;)
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[tantek] fine to use JS to enhance those further for smoother UX if you like
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[tantek] I'd suggest storyboarding the UX of that first, I think folks will be lost if they have to take so many steps to "like" something
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