#dev 2020-04-24

2020-04-24 UTC
_user43, [tantek], geoffo, [Aaron_Klemm], dopplergange, nickodd, ketudb, KartikPrabhu, SpencerDub, BrilliantRose24, swentel, loicm and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
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[LewisCowles] Does anyone here use WeKan?
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[LewisCowles] If you do https://github.com/Lewiscowles1986/wekan/tree/feature-export-to-html-wip may be of interest or the `codesign2/wekan` docker image which has `latest` and `stable` tags. It takes the mongodb, meteor, etc site and allows users to export a board (one-board at a time), to static Html. It then zips up, with assets in a specific FS layout meant for self-hosting static files.
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[LewisCowles] People cannot edit the board, that's out-of-scope, but I love KanBan and this gives me options to communicate using a familiar format internally and externally, without worrying about upstream changes breaking, or user-load on complex services.
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[LewisCowles] Also is anyone playing with ubuntu 20.04 yet?
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swentel still on 18.04 here
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swentel and it works to nice so going to remain on that a bit for now :)
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[LewisCowles] Yeah, I'm not upgrading everything, but I like to have a play. Makes me more appreciative sometimes, but also lets me get ahead of (a possibly imaginary) curve
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[jgmac1106] webmention badges would make it doable [tantek], if you look on my known site I already display a Proof of Concept from the wiki
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[KevinMarks] re unicode, see this issue: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#unicode_generation_in_JSON
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] more / primarily interested in what you think of the approach / UX rather than the “doable” plumbing
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[jgmac1106] sorry, yeah I really like it, especially the stackable badge approach you suggested
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[tantek] Part of the point is that we can build & prototype something on inidewebify me with pretty looking badges without any plumbing
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[tantek] And frankly that kind of UX prototyping is like 1000x more important / useful than plumbing brainstorming
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[tantek] If that’s appealing to folks and they want to self host their badges, then that’s the next step
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[jgmac1106] running a conference all day, but will jump in later
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[tantek] No worries. No rush, not urgent
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[tantek] Just figured you’d have opinions since you’ve been thinking about this for a while
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voxpelli cool idea with the badges
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swentel New Indigenous for android release, have fun :)
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swentel god damn, found a bug myself already .. :p
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swentel oh well, not to critical
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GWG Hi, swentel.
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GWG I really need to return to adding support for some of your new features
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[LewisCowles] [tantek] open badge academy?
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[LewisCowles] They were at MozFest in London 5 or so years back
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GWG I need some generic advice re the rels on this proposal https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/49116
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GWG If the alternate representation of the page is REST API json, then won't it be confused with the JSONFeed, also a rel alternate application/json
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sknebel hm, iffy
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GWG WordPress does rel="https://api.w.org" for the link to the top of their api endpint
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GWG How do I indicate I'm linking to the JSON representation in the API of this page is the problem I want to solve
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GWG And their team is onboard
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Zegnat GWG why the double colon after https here? https://github.com/dshanske/rest-api-links/blob/47a7501244c821d08966cd67d989030ae77708a2/rest-api-links.php#L35
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Zegnat Otherwise, looks good to me. It is an alternate to the current page, and it is a JSON document. The fact that “JSON document” does not describe the format enough to be helpful is not because of the mime type :(
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GWG Zegnat: I just wrote it as proof of concept before doing a patch for WordPress
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Zegnat Ah, gotcha!
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GWG I wanted to show the REST API team what I was thinking
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GWG Zegnat: My question is what the solution is for that problem though
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Zegnat Different MIME types for files that have to be parsed differently?
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Zegnat Alternatively standardise on some sort of MIME parameter? But I do not know who holds those discussions.
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GWG Like wp+json?
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GWG How do you register a mime type again?
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Zegnat I wonder if there might be a case to be made for a schema attribute. E.g. `application/json;schema=`. That way if parsers know they are looking for JSON with a certain format, they can look for the one that advertises the correct schema
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Zegnat does not know if URLs are valid as MIME attributes
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[LewisCowles] [Zegnat] json-api (confusing name) has application/vnd+json I believe
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[LewisCowles] it's not quite a schema, as a set of patterns to use
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Zegnat But theoretically: <link rel="alternate" href="mf2ofarticle.json" type="application/json;schema=https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Zegnat/65ed9a9fb0546fb8c4aa0c0b790b8a40/raw/e1a3333275e38bc603dceb57c9cfd96d1c44537b/microformat.schema.json">
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Zegnat Googling `application/vnd+json` is not really telling me anything, [LewisCowles]. Any documentation?
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[LewisCowles] https://jsonapi.org/
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[LewisCowles] I apparently missed some bits `application/vnd.api+json`.
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Zegnat Yeah, you could use that MIME if the JSON you are sering is following the JSON:API spec.
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Zegnat But I am guessing WP uses their own file format for their JSON API?
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GWG They have a schema, but basically yes, they do
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Zegnat I don’t think there is a valid way of extending an existing MIME, but someone with more knowledge of MIME may correct me.
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Zegnat So you either register a new MIME, or just use application/json (which means close to nothing)
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sknebel and blame jsonfeed for not registering their own if it breaks someone
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Zegnat Or, as I said, I *think* attributes do not need to be registered. So you could add an attribute to the back to identify it is application/json according to something (where something is maybe a link to WP JSON docs? Or schema?)
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GWG sknebel: They corrected that in 1.1
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GWG Where can we find out if attributes don't need to be registered?
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sknebel it's not listed differently on jsonfeed.org
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sknebel but good, then that's less of a concern
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GWG https://github.com/brentsimmons/JSONFeed/issues/126
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Loqi [manton] #126 Proposal for JSON Feed version 1.1
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sknebel nice
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[LewisCowles] Zegnat have you seen SOAP for XML?
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Zegnat I have worked with SOAP. (Unsurprisingly. My previous job had to deal with government APIs ;) )
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[LewisCowles] How did you feel about working with SOAP?
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GWG https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7231#section-3.1.1.1
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[LewisCowles] I Hate it with a passion and often use it as an example of everything wrong with a way of working
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Zegnat SOAP is only fun on a theoretical level, where it *should* be really nice to work with because the endpoint sends you exact information on what methods you can “call”
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Zegnat But half the time, in practice, that hasn’t worked out for me in any intuitive way :P
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[snarfed] i've never really understood how you'd write code to meaningfully call and use RPC methods you've never seen before anyway
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Zegnat `application/vnd.wordpress.rest+json` sounds like something that might make sense for your usecase, GWG. Then you need to go through the steps documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6838#section-5
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[snarfed] other than a few narrow use cases like fuzzing
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Zegnat GWG the first part before the first dot after the first slash (vnd in my example) denotes the tree. A lot of the steps in that IETF document can actually be skipped for things nat in the “standards tree”. vnd is the “vendor tree”.
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GWG Zegnat: Why not just wp+json?
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Zegnat applicaiton/wp+json? From what I am reading not putting it in any tree makes it the standards tree. Standards tree needs IETF specifications or similar?
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Zegnat So unless WP has written a clear standard for the JSON documents that you get back there, I do not know what your chances are to get that
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GWG Only api.w.org
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GWG but will see
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GWG I think the parameter option might work
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Zegnat GWG: if you do not want the vnd. prefix you have to be an approved IETF spec or otherwise recognised by a standards body. See requirements here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6838#section-3.1
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GWG Then vnc.wp+json ?
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Zegnat Sure
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Zegnat I was just thinking ahead in case wordpress may want to come out with other formats down the line
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Zegnat I wonder if application/feed+json would actually happen, or if people were just making up MIMEs without looking into the registration process.
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sknebel it's not in the registry yet: https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/feed+json
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Zegnat https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/media-types.xhtml#application - for all application/* types. Looks like the vnd.* ones are outnumbering the others
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Zegnat Also now learned about the prs tree for personal MIME types. No way I am not going to abuse that :P
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Zegnat application/prs.zegnat
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GWG Zegnat: What would you want that for?
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sknebel being an edge-case 😂
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Zegnat When I hit singularity and everything that describes me is available in a custom binary format.
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[tantek] SOAP is good for one thing though
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[tantek] washing your hands with it for 20s+ tends to kill 99%+ of virus particles
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[LewisCowles] haha
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[LewisCowles] tantek++ Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (65 in all channels)
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Loqi tantek has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (123 in all channels)
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[LewisCowles] had to double-take on that one from the literal, to the painfully obvious play on words
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jacky should I consider this page the canonical 'spec' for building a microformats2 parser?
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jacky is investigating building one for Rust once more
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jacky oof - I need to read more carefully lol
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jacky it literally answers that question at the top of the page
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sknebel jacky: if you want to talk about that, join the zoom :D
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jacky which one?
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sknebel link in indieweb
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jacky oooh
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jacky what is indieauth
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Loqi IndieAuth is a federated login protocol for Web sign-in, enabling users to use their own domain to sign in to other sites and services https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
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[LewisCowles] confusing thing would be... can I h-feed with embedded h-feeds, or have multiple h-feed in a document?
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swentel https://indieweb.org/h-feed#multiple_h-feeds_in_the_same_page
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jacky what is android
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Loqi Android is an open source operating system for mobile devices (AOSP) combined with a set of proprietary cloud services provided by Google, which some use to post to their IndieWeb sites https://indieweb.org/Android
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jacky that warning bit feels a bit unnecessary to have there
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[LewisCowles] I'll stick to one then. swentel++
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Loqi swentel has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (41 in all channels)
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[LewisCowles] the whole first or none is upsetting. That feels like something an app should decide, with the spec defaulting to a list
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[LewisCowles] lists have such wonderful properties. empty, single and multiple are valid and can share non-branching logic. Simply do something for every entry
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jacky swentel: how opposed are you to having a common 'indieweb for android' library?
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jacky has made a repo on his git server to begin experimenting with it
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[LewisCowles] jacky, how far back will your API support be?
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jacky you mean Android API?
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[LewisCowles] yeah
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jacky well, I think I'd initially target 7 and then work backwards
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jacky err hold on
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swentel 7?
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swentel that's ambitious :)
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[LewisCowles] android studio has some defaults that may impact your decision
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swentel jacky, but no, a common library would be great
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swentel extracting some things like indieauth etc would be great
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swentel or a micropub or a microsub library
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jacky android studio has a thing for this
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jacky yeah I was going to start with indieauth
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jacky okay coo
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swentel I've been thinking about it as well at some point
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jacky I wouldn't want to burden you with it but I'd probably work on it via a fork and begin contributing back that way
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swentel but just too much other things in my mind ;)
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jacky libraries def help with adoption from devs
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jacky swentel: lol ofc :)
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swentel jacky, sounds good
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swentel I more or less consider indigenous as feature complete too
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swentel so I'm not going to add many new things
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swentel just bug fixes
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swentel (I might start on the iOS actually soon, but more news on that later)
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[LewisCowles] if a u-url is not public, or cannot be known at time of generation. Should it be omitted?
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[LewisCowles] feeling more and more like maybe I need to transform HTML at the point I know where something is deploying to
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jacky [LewisCowles]: tbh, this is one of my beefs with MF2, that, all properties are optional
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jacky at the very least, I think that url shouldn't be (because without it, there's no real way to fetch it)
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jacky w.r.t API level
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jacky it'd be API Level 24
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jacky Android 7
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[LewisCowles] so I'm thinking that the url _should be_ where it is uploaded to. TBF I'm missing it out from the user fields too
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[LewisCowles] Need to find some tool to take a html file and use CSS selectors to add CSS-classes
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[LewisCowles] prey for me
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[LewisCowles] *pray for me
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[LewisCowles] the addition of microformats will need to be at least partially at deploy time
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[KevinMarks] You can use relative urls in microformats markup
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