#dev 2020-05-06

2020-05-06 UTC
Light1, nickodd, swentel, loicm, [KevinMarks], gRegorLove, strugee, [fluffy], RagazzaMia, jeremych_, [jgmac1106], [LewisCowles], KartikPrabhu and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek] Interesting point about using payments early in service development to avoid / reduce spam: https://twitter.com/pinboard/status/1257959130985201664
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[tantek] (Thread)
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@Pinboard Doing payments first is the way to avoid the rapid growth problem entirely (and depending on your service, spam problems). I charged a tiny signup fee for Pinboard purely as an anti-spam measure, but it ended up getting me endless free publicity. 2009 was a different time. https://twitter.com/RoamResearch/status/1257849892434669571 (twitter.com/_/status/1257959130985201664)
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Zegnat Also known as: the MetaFilter model. It was done way before 2009.
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Zegnat Some real nuggets in the Original RoamResearch thread too.
jolvera, gxt, geoffo, nickodd, [mapkyca], [jgmac1106] and [manton] joined the channel
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[manton] Hi everyone! There have been some discussions about supporting standalone "pages" via Micropub, but I don't think those discussions have ever been captured anywhere outside of chat. I'd like to move this forward so I posted this to GitHub: https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/25
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Loqi [manton] #25 Standalone pages
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[manton] Let me know if I'm missing anything or if there are current solutions. Instead of a specific proposal, I mention a couple ideas that I hope we can discuss further.
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jacky [manton]: I'm literally working on this for my site lol
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jacky this is good
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jacky I should probably put my notes there
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Loqi totally
gRegorLove, swentel, [Aaron_Klemm], [Rose], [calumryan], loicm, hs0ucy, [tantek], [chrisaldrich] and nekr0z joined the channel; nickodd left the channel
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[tantek] what is a page
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Loqi page is short for web page on the IndieWeb, and is usually primarily known by its name and kept updated in place in contrast to posts which are primarily datetime-based; a page that is browser-editable with viewable revisions is a wiki-page https://indieweb.org/page
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[tantek] page << Micro.blog page feature thoughts: https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/25
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Loqi ok, I added "Micro.blog page feature thoughts: https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/25" to the "See Also" section of /page https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69827&oldid=69405
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nekr0z hello everyone! I'm trying to figure out whether I got my atom feed and websub pings set up properly. So far, I have no luck using public hubs and websub.rocks, and I can't figure out if the problem is websub.rocks, the hubs I'm trying to use, or my feeds and pinging tool (last two most probably). Would appreciate any advice on testing.
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[tantek] jacky, feel free to add your notes on your site page feature to /page#Brainstorming
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[tantek] nekr0z, how far are you able to get with your site and websub.rocks?
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aaronpk there's apparently a bug in it
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nekr0z [tantek]: Well, I can subscribe to a feed, and it says it has subscribed. But when feed gets updated it receives no notifications
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aaronpk nekr0z: well i fixed it! thanks for the nudge
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nekr0z aaronpk: welcome!
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aaronpk it was a stupid mistake when i tried to upgrade some framework stuff in march
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[LewisCowles] [Jeremy_Keith] Looking on archive.org for the clearleft design that had vertical text. I think in early 2000's. Have I mis-attributed that, or was that clear:left?
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[manton] [jacky] Thanks for adding a comment! Good timing that you're working on it too.
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[manton] I also wonder if @GWG has run into this working on WordPress integration. Are WordPress pages ever exposed through any of the IndieWeb plugins?
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GWG [manton]: No.
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GWG Never figured out how to create a page using Micropub.
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GWG A page in WordPress is a type of post
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GWG It just has specific properties.
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GWG It is hierarchical
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GWG It is usually posted without a date property, at the least in the URL
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GWG It is not part of a feed usually
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GWG I caught a glimpse of the h=page idea. Not against it, but it opens the door to confusion.
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[tantek] I'm against it because it's not clear why a page can't "just" be an h-entry
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GWG [tantek]: I think it is an h-entry, but something has to signal it isn't the sort of date based feed content
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GWG Page isn't in PTD
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[tantek] Not sure it should be. Or rather, what's the consuming use-case?
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GWG I use PTD on the backend of micropub to determine what type of post is being published.
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[tantek] I like aaronpk's slug idea, to me that makes the most sense because the page name is its distinguishing feture
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GWG That generates the feeds by type and such
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[snarfed] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (120 in all channels)
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GWG But I sometimes expressly set slugs on posts.
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GWG So, what distinguishes there?
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GWG slug vs mp-slug?
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[tantek] GWG, sorry, full context from aaronpk's comment in GH. The starting "/" distinguishes it as a page without any date info in the URL
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[tantek] *named page
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GWG Oh....I missed that when I skimmed it
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[tantek] nekr0z++ for finding a Websub rocks bug!
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Loqi nekr0z has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[tantek] btw this could also allow expicit micropub editing of your homepage by passing "/" as the slug
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GWG [tantek]: Then I withdraw my question and would implement that
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[tantek] also there's an important point here, the "type" of something is VERY different from where it is
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GWG [tantek]: What if your homepage is a feed?
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[tantek] you could have a "page" that is a "photo"
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[manton] Yeah, I think the fact that "page" does not fit anywhere in Post Type Discovery should influence how we do this.
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[manton] For the "/" solution, though, we'd still need something separate for other parts of the API, such as `q=source`. So some post type needs to be communicated in a parameter somewhere, I think.
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GWG [manton]: / in a slug parameter?
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aaronpk right if that was the distinguishing factor, then the query to find those kinds of posts is more like "find all posts where the slug begins with /"
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GWG I'm not sure if anyone allows q=source&slug=x right now thouggh
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aaronpk it's also not "=", it's "starts with"
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GWG aaronpk: I don't think anyone is doing any filtering by slug in any endpoint right now
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GWG Syntax aside
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cal does an indieauth access token ever expires?
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GWG cal: It can
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aaronpk it's like oauth, where it's up to the server to decide
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cal so if I try to create an h-entry post, I may be access token expired error? what http code is that?
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cal under indieauth, if an access token has expired, I would require the user to re-authorize again, to get a new authorization code?
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GWG cal: I keep meaning to implement expiry
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cal thanks GWG, so for now just request user to re-authorize... just trying to explore the boundaries
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GWG cal: Yes, there is nothing the client needs to do
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