#dev 2020-08-12

2020-08-12 UTC
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jacky ahh this is nice
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jacky using :nth-child CSS selector to adjust facepiles! http://koype.test.black.af/post/a5a714eb-9d3f-4e85-9d97-2cd194b5e09e
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Loqi [jackyalcineisgoinglocal] Rerum quisquam eum molestiae necessitatibus ut quos consectetur similique a.
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jacky (lorem ipsum best ipsum? prob not lol)
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jacky really excited to launch this new version of my site
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aaronpk v3?
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jacky lol if only
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jacky more like v21
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jacky if we're talking all of time
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jacky but this will be '0.2.0'
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prologic Can someone help me understand WebMentions without having to do a lot of reading (I hate reading being vision impaired); I have actually tried to read the spec too btw, but the docs kind of suck :)
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prologic For context https://twtxt.net/twt/fv3vabpvsjjenirycz7h6t4n2w6czuczsevtq6m2n3ghj6eu6beq
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aaronpk I write a post on my site that links to a post on your site, then I send a POST request with the two urls to your webmention endpoint, then you verify the link exists on my site, and parse the content and show the comment
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aaronpk More info: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Sending your First Webmention from Scratch
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prologic aaronpk Thanks! that sounds really simple enough
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prologic So if I may put this in the context of twtxt.net
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prologic If I @prologic there write a twt that mentions say you @aaronpk on your own instance of the same software on another domain
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prologic Then my instance would make a POST to some URI on your instance
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prologic Your instance would then verify the two URIs for validity
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prologic and we're done?
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prologic Are the URIs arbitrary or specific to something?
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aaronpk That's the basics
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aaronpk you find the URL to post to by fetching the page and looking for a rel=webmention link
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aaronpk That's described in the blog post I linked
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prologic kk
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prologic lemme have a read thanks!
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prologic If I have any q's I'll come back and ask you :)
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prologic Thinking very seriously about adding more IndieWeb support to twtxt.net
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prologic aaronpk I have a question
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prologic If I add the /webmention endpoint handler/support to twtxt.net's backend and say your website sends a twtxt pod a webmention
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prologic actually I'm confused about how a "conversation" can occur across different systems
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Zegnat prologic: the webmention conveys “I mentioned your url A on my site at URL B”. So if you write a message on twtxt.net with an @Zegnat, where @Zegnat links to my site, you would send a webmention to the endpoint advertised on my site with a link to your message.
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Zegnat It is then up to my site to go and parse that link and do something with it. E.g. send me a notification that I have been mentioned.
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Zegnat Alternatively, if something is a reply, the webmention would be send to a specific message, rather than just someone’s profile page.
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Zegnat Then the receiver can again chose what to do with it, but many within IndieWeb chose to parse the sender’s message and display it as a comment on their own site
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prologic that's the part I'm not clear on
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prologic "choose to parse" and "display it on their site"
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prologic how is this done? is there a convention/rulle?
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Zegnat Not within the webmention spec, but the convention on the indieweb is to use microformats to see what sort of page sent the webmention
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Zegnat What is reply?
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Loqi A reply (or comment) is a kind of post that is a text (typically, though photos are possible too) response to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indieweb.org/reply
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Zegnat There is an example with some microformats there under How To ^^^
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prologic Ahh okay
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prologic this is why someone asked me on my project to support h-card and stuff
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prologic THanks!
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prologic Is there a public service/page I can test my webmention implemtnation against?
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[Murray] there's https://webmention.rocks/ if you're looking for a test suite
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[Murray] there's also checkmentions for testing receipt of mentions: https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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prologic Thanks!
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jacky prologic: a lot of this is mentioned at https://webmention.net/draft/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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[tantek] what is a private message
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Loqi messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, txt, photo …) that they read sometime later; on the IndieWeb, either directly via a personal site, or from one site to another https://indieweb.org/private_message
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[tantek] private message << Use-case to be careful of when designing: Forwarding, in particular authenticating/verifying (and securing) both the forwarder and forwarding, but also transitively the senders and message(s) being forwarded. See https://chat.indieweb.org/social/2020-08-12/1597238678066600 for an example of how this is non-obvious and requires explicit design
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Loqi ok, I added "Use-case to be careful of when designing: Forwarding, in particular authenticating/verifying (and securing) both the forwarder and forwarding, but also transitively the senders and message(s) being forwarded. See https://chat.indieweb.org/social/2020-08-12/1597238678066600 for an example of how this is non-obvious and requires explicit design" to the "See Also" section of /messaging https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72024&oldid=60565
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[tantek] what is "further reading"
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "further reading" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "further reading is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] hmm thought we had something for that
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[tb] Wow I had no idea GitHub had draft PRs now
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[tb] I'm used to mostly being in my company's enterprise deployment of it so I tend to be a bit behind on the latest and greatest
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[tantek] what's a draft PR?
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[tb] https://github.com/aaronpk/omniauth-indieauth/pull/6 — here's an example. TL;DR it gets rid of the merge button in favor of a button for the PR submitter to mark it as ready for review
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Loqi [craftyphotons] #6 Endpoint Discovery
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[tantek] [Murray] regarding "further reading" (from #microformats), see https://indieweb.org/posts#Footer_sections for those kinds of sections of a post and some thinking there
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[tb] So no more need for `WIP` all over the place in titles and labels 😄
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[tantek] ooh that's a good feature!
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[tantek] have totally wanted that, to open a PR with one commit, then add a few more and eventually mark it as yup this is ready for merging instead of it bugging the project owner immediately
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GWG [tantek]: I am expecting you to start opening Bridgy issues
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GWG Or is this still a GUTSy GUST issue?
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[Murray] tantek: interesting, thanks for the link. Shame that the two most relevant (further reading and references) have no "in the wild" examples 😄 I guess your "referencing articles" is the closest to my use-case and pretty close to what I've got right now, but because I explicitly want to provide webmention context as well I'm also adding `h-entry`
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[tantek] note that all of those in that first cluster are marked up with h-cite and I should probably note that
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[tantek] in the wiki page explicitly
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[Murray] yeah I saw that, I've already got `h-cite` on there however I'm pretty sure (based on previous bits I'm working on) that the inclusion of `h-cite` tends to mean the links are ignored by a lot of parsers. At any rate, nothing is seen right now, which is a shame
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[tantek] GWG, hah, not going to file Bridgy issues on draft PRs when we haven't even figured out how to represent PRs by themselves on our own sites.
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GWG [tantek]: I still want to talk about that more
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[tantek] Murray, why would the links be ignored? that doesn't make any sense. They're still valid webmention sources to their targets
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[tantek] GWG, where is it on your priority list?
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GWG I don't ignore h-cite urls
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GWG [tantek]: Not sure...I should make one
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GWG [tantek]: I meant in here, not a session
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[Murray] tantek: that's what I'm trying to debug, but they end up not being listed. Most likely culprit is me getting some implementation detail wrong 😄 Though I know Telegram (which I'd normally use) won't like the nested `h-entry`. I'd assume XRay is the same... might just need to find some more tools to test with
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GWG [tantek]: I think we all have a lot of stuff on our lists
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GWG I have webmention work with Pfefferle, IndieAuth with the community working on iterating that, Micropub with the results of that session...
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GWG So...need to prioritize somehow
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GWG I need more hours in the week
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[tantek] GWG, do you have those things and the "still want to talk about that more" things on your Working On or Itches list(s) on your User: page?
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GWG [tantek]: I need to update my list... it's been ages
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[tantek] Might be a good place to collect them, just adding them to the end of the list to start with, so you can capture them explicitly
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[tantek] and then later, when you ask "I don't know what to work on next", that's the right time to go back to your list and evaluate relative priorities of things on the list
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GWG I said I might want to capture them on my site instead of the wiki... but one of the issues is that I don't have that setup
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[tantek] so don't make that a blocker, use the wiki first
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GWG needs to listen to more episodes of [Rose]'s organizing podcast
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[tantek] and if "want to capture them on my site instead of the wiki." is your *top* priority, put it at the top of the list, and just use the list to collect things in the mean time
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GWG I will probably use my user page and update that
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GWG Just... always so many dreams
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beko looks like TW did a thing: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/08/omg-twitter-release-an-official-conversations-api/ - beta and api key required.
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[tb] Ohh wonder if I have access to this
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[tb] Just got my Twitter API access approved recently
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jacky okay this is good tbh
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jacky I wonder if this'll make it easier to fetch like mass replies in brid.gy as well
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beko hint: shkspr.mobi features webmentions ;)
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jacky oh man that treee https://shkspr.mobi/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/thread-fs8.png
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[tantek] GWG, great to have "so many dreams"! Be proud of that and definitely add them however wild they are to your wiki list
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jacky !tell swentel do you plan to only release Indigineous in the Play Store? I was wondering about updates in F-Droid; haven't seen anything in three months
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jacky if it's something I can do, I'm down to help
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jacky oooh wait
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jacky polls are available via the API
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jacky the Twitter API, that is
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[snarfed] whaaaaat replies API in twitter whaaaaat
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[snarfed] sadly i expect it’s in the new API 😢
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jacky it is
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GWG [tantek]: To dream the indieweb dream....This is my quest..to follow your blog..
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GWG Okay, now Richard Kiley will be in my head
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[mchris] Newbie question: what's up with the new Twitter API? Is it going to make effective interoperability easier or are there new kinds of gatekeeper limits hiding in the functionality to try to keep users on the main platform?
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@vaughnhannon I caught a Perseid! From Chilao Campground, Angeles National Forest Also on: * http://brid.gy ### _Related_ (twitter.com/_/status/1293643253955395584)
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[tb] Ohhh!
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[grantcodes] Is this an option for Instagram PESOS for those that want it? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/instagram-basic-display-api/
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aaronpk Depends on if they approve an app that does that
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aaronpk there's the whole test mode vs live mode thing
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jacky oh I didn't even know you could still use their APIs
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sknebel guess one could try if they care if you use it on your account in test mode forever
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[tb] My presence on IG isn't consequential enough to me to go through the hassle I don't think
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[tb] I'm just going to syndicate to more open services like Flickr
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jacky if I could somehow pull stories then I'd be golden tbh
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[tb] Suppose there's always the option of a full on scraper in a headless browser! 😄
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Zegnat jeremycherfas is doing IG PESOS again: https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/pesos-from-instagram-to-withknown
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aaronpk If the process for getting api keys isn't too terrible I could make ownyourgram ask people to get their own keys and paste them in lol
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[tb] Unfortunately looks like you can't get comments from that basic display API but better than nothing
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[jeremycherfas] I don’t get comments either.
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[Rose] I’d be willing to paste in an API key
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jacky I wonder if you can scrape the comments from the Web
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[snarfed] you can, bridgy does
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[snarfed] difficult though
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