#dev 2020-08-17

2020-08-17 UTC
jonnybarnes, KartikPrabhu, beko, justache, nickodd and prologic joined the channel
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prologic Can someone help me test my WebMentions receiver?
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prologic I think it still has a few quirks/bugs
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mblaney hi prologic sure, I can help.
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Loqi mblaney: [jgmac1106] left you a message on 2020-03-20 at 11:59am UTC: when we get my edu106 students will be setting up their websites, choices will be ihazawebsite, micro.blog or tumblr
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Loqi mblaney: GWG left you a message on 2020-04-13 at 9:31pm UTC: https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/36669
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prologic mblaney I'm not even sure it will work very well to be honest
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prologic I think I've stuffed up a few things
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prologic and I nuked all the mf2 parsing as I couldn't make sense of that
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prologic But here goes https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/ or https://twtxt-webmentions2.mills.io/
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prologic either one
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prologic flluffy-critter also pointed out a few flaws in my implemtnation at https://github.com/prologic/twtxt/issues/91
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Loqi [fluffy-critter] #91 IndieWeb support
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prologic I'll work on those more later tonight
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mblaney prologic: looks like it's working ok to me. successfully posted to your webmention endpoint, returned 202.
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prologic cool
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prologic wehther or not the backend actually did anything with it
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prologic is another sory :)
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prologic yeah looks like it went no where
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mblaney well it's a good start :-)
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mblaney you can always trigger a resend, let me know if you need the source url.
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aaronpk prologic: please do try webmention.rocks too
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prologic I've hacked the library I've effectively "lifed" now a bit
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prologic and added what I _think_ are optional and should be ignored by normal webmentions
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prologic aaronpk yeah will do
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prologic like according to the spec
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prologic webmention senders have to respect any url query params in the endpoint
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prologic so I'm going to abuse that between twtxt.net pods
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prologic $ curl -q -s -I https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/twt/bhbnbrnuxhhytlsrhjyp3zkz2ztndrc4mjl2copbvrfb5m623m7a | grep link
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prologic link: <https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/webmention?nick=prologic&feed=https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/user/prologic/twtxt.txt>; rel="webmention"
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prologic That's an improvement
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prologic starting to look/work a bit better now
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mblaney prologic: there are more standardised ways to advertise that extra information, rel=feed and h-card for nicknames, for example.
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jacky s/more standarised/more common/ no?
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jacky using it in the header is also permissible via the spec
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mblaney jacky: using what in the header?
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jacky sorry, should have been more clear
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jacky exposing Webmention endpoints in the Link header is also a decent method
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mblaney sure, I was referring to the extra parameters that prologic wants discovered.
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mblaney there are documented ways to do that without overloading webmention discovery
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jacky aaronpk: tiny https://www.genkithings.com/products/covert-dock
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prologic The way I'm trying to do this now is via the LInk header
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prologic e.g:
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prologic Link: <%s/user/%s/webmention>; rel="webmention"; nick="%s"; url="%s
moppy, cweiske, [Rose], swentel, jeremych_, craftyphotons, ndegruchy, kitt, [Ana_Rodrigues], KartikPrabhu, prologic, kraem, gxt, floridafruitgeek, [tonz], [tb], dckc and nickodd joined the channel
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@flameborn ↩️ Yeah, that’s the point of Docker, you can spin up whatever container you’d like, also called a base image, and create your own image by adding stuff to it. Speaking of IndieAuth, I think Hugo has a theme that has IndieWeb support. Hugo in general is awesome. (twitter.com/_/status/1295369654324662274)
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GWG Curious after yesterday..who here still maintains a url shortener and why?
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[schmarty] GWG: i do! it's an extremely simple algorithmic shortener and tho i don't really use it day to day it also doesn't require any extra maintenance at this point 😂
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GWG [schmarty]: I realized yesterday I have one, it works...but other than Bridgy picking up on it and using it in publishing, I don't think I use it for much.
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GWG Wondering if the moment had passed
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[snarfed] the big motivation was way back when twitter counted characters in URLs. they switched to a flat 23 chars per URL a long time ago, which removed that motivation entirely
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[snarfed] https://indieweb.org/permashortlink lists some other motivations
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jacky prologic: is there any reason you can't put those extra parameters in the URL?
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jacky like the nickname specifically? you'd be getting the URL as part of the request (if url == the thing being sent a webmention)
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prologic yeah
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[snarfed] we have mf2 for nickname, right? p-nickname, https://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Properties . why put it in a webmention endpoint URL?
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aaronpk smells something fishy
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[snarfed] oh for the receiver?
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aaronpk keep in mind that whatever you put in your webmention endpoint URL is untrusted external data when you receive a webmention, anyone can change it or fake it
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prologic yes I realize this
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prologic hence I'm going back to the drawing board here
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prologic I _think_ I nearly have this worked out
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prologic each twt has appropriate h-entry/h-card mf2 data
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prologic so that works nicely
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prologic and my webmention receiver will verify and look that up
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prologic also its only users on twtxt.net that have a valid webmention endpoint; e.g: twtxt.net/user/:nick/webmention
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[snarfed] so what will it do when i post a reply to user A and send a wm for it to user B’s wm endpoint?
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prologic Can someone send me a webmention to https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/twt/kkilg3t23zp3cwvn3bpfg5zmukxgh2auvsbd5sn2rw5cq6ggqc6a ?
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aaronpk prologic: you can get webmention.rocks to send a webmention to you whenever
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[snarfed] ^ yup or you can yourself! from any source you want
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prologic I don't really have any other sources :)
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prologic besides what I'm building :D
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prologic I have two test instances :)
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[snarfed] ah you want interop testing, ok
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aaronpk i think [snarfed] means like from a static HTML page :)
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prologic Yes please!
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[snarfed] yup, i do much of bridgy publish’s interop testing with static html
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[snarfed] (you’ll eventually want something like that for unit/integration tests anyway)
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prologic I think this mf2 parser is broken :/
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prologic hmmm
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prologic aaronpk I saw your webmention inbound in the logs
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prologic but it went nowhere :/
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aaronpk well that page is up on my site now so you can always re-send the webmention yourself to test now!
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prologic how do I do that?
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prologic link?
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aaronpk you should have the link in your logs no?
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prologic ahh
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prologic url encoded ofc
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prologic one sec
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aaronpk then just send the post request from curl
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Loqi definitely
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prologic aaronpk at least on your site is showed some of the right stuff
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prologic the h-card is a little weird though
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prologic I haven't gotten that quite right
[chrisaldrich], jonnybarnes, vika_nezrimaya, [Morgan_F] and [manton] joined the channel; prologic left the channel
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[manton] @prologic Speaking of replies, the Atom feed from twtxt is kind of unusual… The full post is in the title but with escaped brackets around the username, which creates problems when the feed is added on Micro.blog. Why not include the HTML of the post in the content with the username linked? Example of the problem: https://micro.blog/felixp7/10116171
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Loqi [felixp7] @ (re creative prompts) Well, this is one way to create engagement. A lot of people seem to love them. Not me. Just maybe not every single day for a month, you know. And yes, communities need to be intentional to hold together. twtxt.net
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[manton] To be honest, you’re going to hit more issues like this because the native format of twtxt is just text. My 2 cents is be careful you don’t reinvent the wheel instead of just using HTML which can already handle everything. This is why Micro.blog is based on blogs.
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prologic Well this finally works I think
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prologic See: https://twtxt-webmentions1.mills.io/twt/7nd5mhsavefcyoahe3rc4zohe5t6td6kzcvw6q7zvluhmwufhgeq
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prologic and mention here: https://twtxt-webmentions2.mills.io/twt/vbunqhoj2pj76rkzqwfmsbhrw3nks3dhtn4tiyjkhwmavv6fpr4a
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prologic https://twtxt.net/twt/2ce4ew5tabus2gqlsoqabe6q2ttxppugyzr4wibkiz4jn7uz6lua
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aaronpk those urls are *so long* lol
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aaronpk i just sent mine again but i don't see it
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prologic so long? what do you mean :)
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prologic they're blake2b hashes of the twt itself
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aaronpk youtube video IDs are 11 characters long, and there are a *lot* of youtube videos. you really don't need more chars than that :)
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prologic sure
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prologic shall I just truncate the blake2b hash then?
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prologic to the last 11?
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aaronpk depends on how likely a hash collision of the last 11 chars is
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prologic oh boi :)
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prologic that's why I use the full hash!
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prologic :P
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aaronpk any reason in particular?
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prologic 0 hash collisions :)
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aaronpk what happens if someone posts the same text twice?
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[snarfed] obligatory: https://indieweb.org/URL_design
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prologic I do kind of know something about crypto. / sorta/kinda :)
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prologic you get a different hash
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aaronpk so it's not a hash of *just* the text?
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prologic it hashes the timestamp as and source feed uri
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prologic no
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aaronpk got it. but why
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prologic Timestamp + URI + Text
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prologic why what?
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aaronpk why use a hash at all? why not just a random string?
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prologic So that you can compute the hash ahead of time if you need to
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[snarfed] aaron’s point is that URLs are UI just like what shows up on the page itself, and hashes are bad UI
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[snarfed] not the worst, but not great
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prologic right I see
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prologic well I'll bring it up with the team
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prologic the only thing I can think of doing is to shorten/truncate it and loose some entropy in the hash bits
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aaronpk you can also use an alternative character set to shorten the overall length
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prologic 11 chars of the base32 string of the hash are probably more bits than we'd ever need :)
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aaronpk e.g. it looks like there are no caps in your current URLs, so that would add another 26 characters
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prologic I'll check tomorrow
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aaronpk i'm a fan of base60, and 11 chars of a base60 charset is far more entropy than you ever need, it's likely even enough to just randomly generate a string and nearly guarantee that it will be unique each time you do that
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prologic Thanks for bringing this up aaronpk :)
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[snarfed] prologic++ aaronpk++
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Loqi prologic has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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Loqi aaronpk has 67 karma in this channel over the last year (245 in all channels)
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prologic How's this? http://0.0.0.0:8000/twt/43oyxln5qha
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prologic Looks like this is 88bits so pretty damn near unlikely to collide
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aaronpk much more readable
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prologic Great
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prologic I'll roll this to prod :)
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prologic I basically just truncate it to last 11
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prologic same hash/encoding
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aaronpk while you're in there, i noticed a minor microformats bug too
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aaronpk there's an extra p-name class in the author info
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prologic hmm
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prologic lemme switch to that branch
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prologic Ahh you're right
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prologic Fixed!
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prologic it'll update in 5mins
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aaronpk 👍
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prologic https://github.com/prologic/twtxt/pull/122/files
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prologic in case anyone has the ability to help review this?
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[tb] Gah. Doing a `HEAD` request (or `GET` for that matter) to https://twitter.com/nonexistent-username still returns an HTTP 200
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