#dev 2020-08-18

2020-08-18 UTC
jonnybarnes, [tw2113], KartikPrabhu, callMeBaby, JK_na, fredcy_, jalcine[m], Salt[m], samwilson, smacko[m], jamietanna[m], hirusi[m], nekr0z, Rixon, JameySharp[m], gRegorLove, gxt and prologic joined the channel; prologic left the channel
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prologic Thanks for all the help guys! Especially aaronpk ! Its official twtxt.net (and all twt.social pods) now support webmentions and indieweb microformats! 🎉
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@kevinmarks ↩️ There's a standard api as part of micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#media-endpoint And some open source implementations https://indieweb.org/micropub_media_endpoint (twitter.com/_/status/1295642749933412353)
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@iooner @freekmurze Ahoy! Did you publish how "WebMentions" works on your blog somewhere? Thanks (twitter.com/_/status/1295671773992824833)
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aaronpk prologic: awesome! does my comment show up now or should i re-send it?
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prologic well umm you should resend it; however "comment show up" I'm not sure how this works per se?
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prologic But any webmention inbound should be handled and posted to thw internal twtxt feed
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prologic aaronpk in fact I'm actually curious about the whole "user experience" of web mentions in the first place
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prologic when you have time maybe you can walk me through how some non-technical person might interact with something via (unbeknown to them) webmention
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prologic also really interested to see how far we can take twtxt <-> webmention interop
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aaronpk Oh do posts on twtxt not show comments?
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aaronpk thats fine, personal preference, just means I can't see if my webmention worked
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[schmarty] sounds like another case where "webmention" is not enough to describe what is being discussed 😂 https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/15/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-webmentions/
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GWG I love this enhancement to my IRC client that shows [schmarty] photos when his website is cited.
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@TrevorFSmith ↩️ I agree with that description of what happened. That said, I think the core problem today is that RSS/Atom alone is no longer enough for us. We want to read, like, and comment without bouncing from site to site. The indieweb community uses webmentions and webactions for this. (twitter.com/_/status/1295761746318090241)
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jacky aaronpk: the 'seeing' if it worked is something I -kinda- want to push into webmention status pages tbh
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[tantek] I see hiding the URL bar has flared up again, with a decent amount of /URL_design discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24156986
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Loqi [atriix] Google resumes its attack on the URL bar, hides full addresses on Chrome 86
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GWG [tantek]: Vouch is another topic we haven't been able to get implementation on
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[tantek] GWG, I think it's because we need more implementation experience on the UX side of basic allow lists etc. first
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[tantek] and figure out where those have limitations
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[LewisCowles] has anyone used VideoJS on their own site to stream MP4-HLS streams?
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GWG [tantek]: Good thing to brainstorm
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GWG I just have a textarea that I put domains into
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[tantek] what is an allow list
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/allow-list
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[LewisCowles] Firefox has an error Uncaught DOMException. It's super-frustrating, and I cannot seem to find a place to increase the limit
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[LewisCowles] Chrome has no issue, and as of yet, I don't know enough to know which is behaving in my interests
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[tantek] GWG, can you add your details about your textarea to https://indieweb.org/allowlist#David_Shanske ?
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GWG [tantek]: Done
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GWG I even built it at a Summit
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GWG The one that was at that conference space..not at an office
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GWG I forget if that's when I added Alice and Bob to Vouch
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GWG I like gRegorLove's monitoring a blogroll option..I just don't have one
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gRegorLove I think that was 2018
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gRegorLove Feels like it was longer ago
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GWG gRegorLove: I'm not 100% sure that my pre pandemic memories are real
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[tantek] GWG ^ one of the reasons I try to take photos every day, and days where I forget to take a photo feel like they didn't exist
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GWG Not a bad plan.
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GWG I should write more
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[tantek] that's also a good practice. there's two specific examples that may help: morning pages, and evening logs though I realize this is more of a #indieweb general chat (we could make it dev-specific if you like, up to you)
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GWG [tantek]: Just a note or two...
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lahacker hey guys is there a nook on the wiki that might discuss webmentions on an updating article (ie. wiki article) -- eg. continuing to show someone's like to your article even after it's been substantially edited -- is there a way to backfeed an explicit "version" bump? -- a "version" property? or should this case be covered by the replying party offering some kind of revocation on their end?
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lahacker https://indieweb.org/reply-context#CRUD
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[snarfed] sounds like https://indieweb.org/Salmention
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lahacker [snarfed]: this is only for two parties -- thought salmention was for a third party swimming up to the first (eg. threaded comments)?
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lahacker i'm talking -- an article or even note changes drastically and my original comment/like/etc. no longer applies
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lahacker specifically in the context of a resource that has multiple version URLs
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lahacker the replying party should be able to reply to /IndieWeb (the actual article) in a general sense or a specific version /IndieWeb/versions/3 -- but is there some existing mechanism so suggest that the original reply be repointed to the versioned page it originally pointed to instead of the new one
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[schmarty] lahacker: perhaps rel=canonical might help? http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-canonical
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[schmarty] this sounds more like a question of URL design, though.
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Loqi Kevin Marks
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[schmarty] but to answer your specific question i don't think there are any examples in the wild of a mechanism to suggest that a post be changed.
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[schmarty] that said, there are some proposals on https://indieweb.org/edit
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[snarfed] salmentions are definitely both directions, so a replying party could use them to trigger any behavior they want
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[snarfed] versions will be site-specific, and different, so i’d hesitate trying to do anything based on versions specifically
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[snarfed] a start would just be reacting at all to a salmention from the original post. afaik we don’t have any example of that in the wild yet
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lahacker hmm rel=canonical is an idea -- just always have a rel=canonical pointing to /IndieWeb/versions/>{n} on /IndieWeb and the replying party can offer the choice of which to reply to
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lahacker [snarfed]: correct me if i'm wrong but salmention only kicks in when there's a third party, no? in this case i'm talking about two parties only
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lahacker consider a book where several commentors complain about a confusing chapter, the chapter is rewritten, their comments should somehow point to the old version
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lahacker should i just handle that all on my end (author side)
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lahacker someone could follow through from their comment and find no said confusion in the now updated chapter
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lahacker this is a common problem with changing titles of articles and what not on reddit/hackernews type sites
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lahacker so it applies to more than one context
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lahacker [schmarty]: the problem would still persist when they choose to reply to /IndieWeb and i substantially change it
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[snarfed] maybe i’m misremembering, but afaik salmentions are both directions. maybe that’s in https://indieweb.org/Salmention#Receiving_Salmentions ? not sure
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[snarfed] we have something somewhere about sending wms from an original post to responses when the original post changes. maybe salmentions, maybe elsewhere
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[tantek] I think we brainstormed them both directions, however I believe there were concerns that could result in loops
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[tantek] the primary use-case of salmentions is upstream AFAIK, though cases like "A: C commented on a post B that you were tagged in" are almost sideways
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lahacker so i think i got it right the first time -- imagine the case of the replying party's "like" permalink -- the UX of this whole discussion kind of revolves around what my "In reply to.." aka reply-context shows
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lahacker sorry what *their* "In reply to.." shows
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lahacker so if they were commenting on my second chapter being confusing
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lahacker oh... actually... if they just leave their cache as is then the context will remain correct
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lahacker but things get messy on /IndieWeb
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lahacker there's a disconnect -- and i'm still wondering if salmentions kicks in at all in a two-party context
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lahacker regardless of direction
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lahacker i've been approaching the concept of an "edit" from multiple angles trying to tack it down -- tantek mentioned once "just resent a webmention"
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lahacker "just resend a webmention"
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lahacker which simplified things along (easy to complicate!)
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lahacker s/along/alot
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lahacker but in this case i guess i'm just wondering how others or if no other prior art ideas as to how to attack this level of granularity
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lahacker i'll start with just noting the version the article/page/book was at when the comment was received (if they only point to the naked /IndieWeb)
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lahacker chronological order will be simple enough.. another ordering possibly not
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[tantek] lahacker, might help to have a step by step list of the user actions taken and expected user-visible result
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