#dev 2020-11-24

2020-11-24 UTC
gxt and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek] wow spicy in the dev channel today lol
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[tantek] how not to help someone as a developer, e.g. as a developer helping someone setup their IndieWeb site: https://twitter.com/EmilyKager/status/1331028582232072192
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@EmilyKager POV the tech bro notices you and wants to help you out https://twitter.com/EmilyKager/status/1331028582232072192/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/1331028582232072192)
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@kkd みんながサイロの中でしか発言してないとせっかくのWebmentionもあまり機能しない、当たり前だけど。FacebookはAPIでどうもできないサイロ中のサイロなので困るね。 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1331064688369668096)
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jacky what are webactions
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Loqi A web action is the interface and user experience of taking a specific discrete action, across the web, from one site to another site or application https://indieweb.org/webactions
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jacky hmm
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jacky I was looking specifically for the protocol prefix used
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jacky that seems to be `web+action://`
[chrisaldrich], jjuran, tinfoil-1, swentel, [KevinMarks] and petermolnar joined the channel
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petermolnar this is PESOS, right? https://paulie.dev/posts/2020/11/gatsby-netlify-twitter/
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jeremycherfas Looks that way on a quick read.
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jeremycherfas Although my eyes are bleeding a little.
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nolith petermolnar: I dont't think so. He's just dowloading his twitter bio and location with an javascript call that goes trough his "proxy"
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nolith He's not dowloading the tweets, not providing a permalinked copy on his site
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nolith and it's all dynamic, into client browser
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petermolnar :(
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nolith speaking of twitter API, finally they re-enabled my app yesterday
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sknebel https://seirdy.one/2020/11/23/website-best-practices.html and recent talk about microformats testing made me think if it is possible to have a test that ensures reader mode works correctly on a page
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jeremycherfas My immediate gripe with that site is that the line length is too long. As in, too long for me to continue trying to read it.
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sknebel yeah, ~150 chars here
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@nolith HOWTO send your first #indieweb webmention.https://abisso.org/59qCgD (twitter.com/_/status/1331227467563077632)
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sknebel but it works with reader mode :D
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jeremycherfas There's an argument about not expecting the visitor to have to do anything.
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sknebel obviously
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sknebel I did not suggest the site is good that way
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jeremycherfas Of course not. But it does suggest that the author is actually less concerned about making the site a good experience for someone reading it. Or maybe just doesn't know about usability.
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[Murray] Which is unfortunate, because they are apparently employed as a front-end UI/UX... so usability should be the foundational expectations 😄
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Zegnat !tell jacky yes on web_action, were you maybe looking for / remembering this page? https://indieweb.org/indie-config
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jeremycherfas It's fast; the rest is just baubles. ;)
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Zegnat Maybe there is also something to say for better default CSS (e.g. linelength) in browsers.
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Zegnat If I write HTML with no CSS, people are not going to like reading it, like jeremycherfas just said
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Loqi did we release a new indieauth snapshot yet?
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Loqi Countdown set by sknebel on 2020-11-22 at 1:18am CET
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Zegnat Answer: no
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nolith what is an indieauth snapshot?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indieauth snapshot" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "indieauth snapshot is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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nolith Is it a snapshot of the doc?
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Zegnat Snapshot of the specification
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Zegnat https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ is a living spec, but it is “versioned” by date
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Zegnat There was a push over the weekend to clearup some stuff around profile URLs and making the security check a more core part of the spec. But we haven’t actually released it on the main spec yet
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nolith thanks Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 32 karma in this channel over the last year (92 in all channels)
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jacky slowly getting back into https://invent.kde.org/jalcine/activitydesk and the need for a mf2 parser in Rust grows
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Loqi jacky: Zegnat left you a message 2 hours, 58 minutes ago: yes on web_action, were you maybe looking for / remembering this page? https://indieweb.org/indie-config
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jacky yup that's it Zegnat
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jacky if I can get that project working, I can push away from using my Android phone for a lot tbh
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jacky I could lean on Firefox + 'installed' Web apps to handle other things
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jacky but the e-mail, SMS and call functions are solid; this would just give me everything else (social feeds + rss reader)
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GWG Does anyone know how to calculate the cloud cover fraction by comparing the actual mean solar radiation to the clear sky radiation?
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GWG Followup, does anyone know how to estimate the actual mean solar radiation using illuminance?
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GWG Or, simpler...who here knows a meteorologist?
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GWG This is all in my attempt to figure out if it's cloudy outside to display the right icon on my site
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[Raphael_Luckom] Is there a difference between metric cloudy and imperial cloudy?
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[KevinMarks] The UK have 200 words for rain
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GWG [Raphael_Luckom]: Not that I know of, why?
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GWG I spent time last night standardizing my units of measurement
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GWG For example, storing rain in mm/hr vs cm/hr
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GWG Storing wind in m/s vs km/hr
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GWG Weather APIs are not consistent so I had to decide
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GWG But my weather station doesn't have a way of calculating cloudiness
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GWG I should be able to estimate it with the other sensors
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GWG I just need a formula
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GWG [KevinMarks]: My Met office code works very well. Although they don't record as many parameters as some stations
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[KevinMarks] Met office makes a distinction between mist and fog, but doesn't have a 'mizzle'
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GWG [KevinMarks]: Do you want your website to report mizzle?
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[tantek] Really enjoying the FONTS talk from Beyond Tellerand (online session)
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[tantek] Oliver is going through the use of different type for different fundamental purposes, e.g. Display Text (for headlines, larger text, smaller bits of text) vs Body Text
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[tantek] Is anyone else watching? I posted a while ago about it
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[tantek] picking the typography for your site based on the vibe you want to convey feels very IndieWeb, like very much an advantage of IndieWeb over any silo
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[tantek] Oliver is claiming there's no difference in readability of body text (on screen presumably) between sans and serif text.
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[tantek] Curious if anyone here takes special care in what type / fonts they choose for their personal site headings vs body text etc.
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[Raphael_Luckom] the link earlier claimed that the difference is in low-res screens. I'd be interested to know what % of low-res screens actually attempt to render markup-specified fonts.
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[tantek] curious what kind of low-res screen use-cases there are these days (beyond very low res like LED big pixel displays)
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[Raphael_Luckom] Old school nokias will outlive us all 🙂
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[tantek] haha true
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[tantek] Wow Gill Sans is pretty bad on iOS apparently
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jeremycherfas It is? Makes note to check. I use it in print all the time.
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[tantek] interesting, for body text, larger x-heights are preferred (more readable at smaller sizes, e.g. counterexample Gill Sans)
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[Raphael_Luckom] I think I'm going to use Tufte's style in a redesign: https://edwardtufte.github.io/tufte-css/ . I think his choice of serif it a bit precious, but the layout stuff all seems perfect to me
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[tantek] jeremycherfas, yes iOS meaning on screen in particular. print is quite a different medium obv!
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jeremycherfas Obvs! I don't think I am using it online, but it can't hurt to check.
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[tantek] feels like the kind of thing a client-side validator could check too, e.g. by checking the computed style of elements in your page
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jeremycherfas I'm just waiting for the tufte marginal footnotes to work again with pandoc before attempting a redesign. Or rather, a re-layout. Not much else will change.
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[tantek] interesting, now he's talking UI fonts, which have different constraints as well (fonts for menus, buttons etc.)
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[tantek] Helvetica is bad for that because of its tight "counters" (the open edges), Lucida is better. Apparently MacOS 10.10 Yosemite switched to Helvetica for menu fonts and it was a lots less readable
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[tantek] "Functional text" (broader term for UI text I think)
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aaronpk GWG: do you know the name of one unit of cloud cover? :D
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GWG aaronpk: Yes, I do. I assume because of your affiliation you do as well
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aaronpk :)
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KartikPrabhu is it cloudenheit?
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KartikPrabhu you guys should really switch to cloudcius
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Zegnat I was about to make that joke, KartikPrabhu xD
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KartikPrabhu :D
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sknebel 🛑 :P
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[KevinMarks] [Raphael_Luckom] I made a Tufte Hugo theme with microformats in
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[KevinMarks] https://github.com/ChristopherA/LifeWithAlacrityBlog/tree/master/blog/themes/indie-tufte
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[Raphael_Luckom] cool!
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[KevinMarks] I use Gill Sans as a display font on my blog for headings
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[tantek] KevinMarks, I was just informed of how problematic Eric Gill was (see his Wikipedia entry) and it's gross enough that I can't use any Gill anything any more
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[tantek] On a positive note, now the FONTS session as moved onto the next talk, by Ulrike of LiebeFonts
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[tantek] lots about variable fonts and handwritten fonts (good ones where repeated letters use different variants etc.)
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[tantek] also aside this is a beautiful personal site (from a hand letterer) https://www.seblester.com
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[KevinMarks] Gill was horrible, yes. Maybe I should change my default for Apple.
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@iwebthings Liked Sending your first webmention by (Alessio Caiazza) ...interactions across the decentralized social web. https://abisso.org/stream/2020/11/24/webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1331326500084342792)
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[tantek] more awesome typography sites:
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[tantek] https://fontdrop.info/ https://wakamaifondue.com/ https://dinamodarkroom.com/gauntlet/
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