#dev 2021-01-18

2021-01-18 UTC
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@hail2u_ 1991は「個人がウェブに」という年だったが、2021年は「個人それぞれのウェブ」という年なのではないか。Webmention推しっぽい。 https://victoria.dev/blog/make-your-own-independent-website/ (twitter.com/_/status/1350968417399021568)
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@mdrockwell ↩️ I agree. I guess I’m more specifically asking about webmentions and the other IndieWeb-specific features. (twitter.com/_/status/1350969621462003713)
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@tw2113 ↩️ webmentions would be good if you care about self-site comments in some amount. Authentication I'm on the fence about still, but I also need to re-affirm my understanding of the security aspects of it. Other parts...would depend on what we're discussing. (twitter.com/_/status/1350971178324795394)
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Seirdy (following up from #indieweb)
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Seirdy is there any recommended markup/microformat for displaying webmentions? currently I just have a plain <ul> with <time> and <a> tags; an example is at the bottom of https://seirdy.one/2021/01/12/password-strength.html. Might consider adding nofollows.
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Loqi Becoming physically immune to brute-force attacks
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Seirdy also interested to know if anyone else uses SSG (particularly Hugo) to render webmentions without adding scripts.
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aaronpk We were just having this conversation
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aaronpk what are comments?
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Loqi Comments are displayed in the context of an original post, and may be a mix of syndicated reply posts from other sites received via Webmention, as well as locally created comments https://indieweb.org/comments
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aaronpk Let's see if there's enough documented there
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aaronpk Wait
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aaronpk What are responses?
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Loqi responses, or interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others’s posts, from written replies to quick likes, in other words responses = replies + reactions https://indieweb.org/responses,
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aaronpk So here's a meta idea... -> #indieweb-meta
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[tantek] Seirdy, the key thing is, you're not displaying "webmentions", webmentions are the raw plumbing of what's going on. You're displaying comments and other responses
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[tantek] So to start, what kind of responses are you looking to display?
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aaronpk Nobody cares about the technical difference between webmentions and responses
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[tantek] it's not a technical difference, it's a mindset difference.
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[tantek] webmention is but one piece of the whole that are user visible responses
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[tantek] "displaying webmentions" is just as incorrect thinking as the errors that led to "displaying pingbacks"
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[tantek] it's a path to crappy UX
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aaronpk [schmarty] has a blog post about this
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aaronpk https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/15/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-webmentions/
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aaronpk The term has grown far beyond the simple plumbing building block that it is and we need to recognize that at least in the public facing documentation
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Seirdy honestly my only webmentions so far are just posts to silos/forums like lobste.rs and tildes.net (the latter generated by a hacky script i wrote).
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[tantek] Seirdy, interesting, do you mean these are replies from your own site? Or are you trying to display responses to your own posts?
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Seirdy [tantek]: I sent a webmention on behalf of tildes.net, which doesn't support webmentions but could use the attention since it's small.
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Seirdy lobste.rs supports webmentions natively; every link submission triggers a webmention
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Seirdy my site was linked on both lobste.rs and tildes.net
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Seirdy in fact, you can see a Lobsters webmention at the bottom of the post that aaronpk linked.
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jeremycherfas There's something I really do not understand about securely accessing my raspberry pi over the internet. I have used a DHCP Exception in the router to give it a fixed IP. But that IP is only "correct" inside my wifi network. I can find my public IP, but I do not understand how to use that to connect to my pi.
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jeremycherfas This is specifically for using SyncThing when I am out of the house.
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petermolnar normally your router is one way: devices can go out.
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petermolnar in order to connect to something from the outside, you need to either get inside (vpn), or poke a hole on the router that passes a port and it's traffic to something inside
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petermolnar the third route is nasty: basically both of you and your home pi connect to a relay which will translate your traffic. This is how many of the video conf services work.
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petermolnar see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT_traversal
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petermolnar (that kinda includes poking holes)
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aaronpk For syncthing you'd need to forward a port to the raspberry pi
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aaronpk but also I thought it had some magic that handles NAT traversal for you already. I don't have a port forwarded and I am pretty sure mine works when I'm out of the house
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jeremycherfas Hmmn. I guess the first thing to do is just see what happens if I try Syncthing from outside the house. Maybe I'm am worrying about a theoretical problem.
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aaronpk It's been a while since I set it up so I don't remember everything I did
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jeremycherfas I can relate to that.
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petermolnar aaronpk: syncthing has relayhosts
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jeremycherfas What is a relayhost?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "relayhost" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "relayhost is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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petermolnar https://docs.syncthing.net/users/strelaysrv.html
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petermolnar hm, that doesn't help
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petermolnar let me look deeper
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petermolnar https://docs.syncthing.net/users/relaying.html
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[tantek] last time I was punching NAT holes was when I was setting up p2p Subethaedit editing across WANs
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aaronpk petermolnar: I thought there was something in between, using a public server to find a way to have the two peers connect directly
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jeremycherfas Thanks petermolnar++ I'm going to charge up the laptop and go for a walk.
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[tantek] aaronpk indeed, that's usually how WebRTC works
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[tantek] to bootstrap the peer to peer connection
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[Raphael_Luckom] Just saw this requested path in my logs. Pretty sure it's some kind of probe, but never seen the pattern before. Aimed at something that parses paths in URLs? What it hit was a CDN with very little creative range:
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[Raphael_Luckom] `/posts/linear-gradient(rgb(255,%2520255,%2520248),%2520rgb(255,%2520255,%2520248)),%2520linear-gradient(rgb(255,%2520255,%2520248),%2520rgb(255,%2520255,%2520248)),%2520linear-gradient(rgb(17,%252017,%252017),%2520rgb(17,%252017,%252017))`
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aaronpk looks like something parsed a css file wrong
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[Raphael_Luckom] it doesn doesn't it. The UA looked like firefox on linux but who knows
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[Raphael_Luckom] *it does, doesn't it.
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[KevinMarks] Like it thought the gradient was a url?
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[Raphael_Luckom] I guess. The only linear-gradients in my css use hex color codes, not rgb, but those rgb values look like similar colors.
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@chrisjonesio ↩️ Thanks man! Webmentions rock. (twitter.com/_/status/1351229072609783809)
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[fluffy] [Raphael_Luckom] I wonder if maybe something was trying to be too clever in interpreting a CSS gradient in an image-based way but then took a wrong turn
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[fluffy] like converting the linear-gradient rule into an image URI for internal rendering use
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[Raphael_Luckom] yeah, it's probably something like that. it's so interesting to hear these theories. I love a little puzzle
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@fluffy ↩️ Hello! I wrote webmention.js as a quick hack for http://beesbuzz.biz and now it’s used on a bunch of indieweb sites. (twitter.com/_/status/1351240202434576386)
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[fluffy] Re syncthing it also supports STUN and UPnP. The relays are only used as a last resort.
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Mine does. I also keep a list of people who have IndieWeb sites & most (though not all) will support Webmentions: https://boffosocko.com/about/following/ Most under the IndieWeb & some under the IndieWeb for Education & Blogger headings will support webmentions [more: http://boffosocko.com/2021/01/18/55785723/] (twitter.com/_/status/1351248659728510981)
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@jezcope ↩️ Replies welcome here or on the blog post itself (or send me a webmention if that means something to you). (twitter.com/_/status/1351279424751198217)
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[jeremycherfas] [fluffy] can you explain how sync thing knows where to look for other machines, if all is has is their internal IP? Or does that very long identifying hash include the required information. That’s the part I cannot grasp.
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[fluffy] I have no idea. I assume the hash does something to facilitate the lookup of the other address parts.
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[fluffy] like it probably works similarly to how magnet torrent URNs do
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[fluffy] which is another thing I don’t know the details of :)
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sknebel afaik syncthing has it easier than torrents because the discovery servers trust each other. so afaik the client just tells one discovery server "hash XYZ can be reached here!", the discovery servers somehow sync that between themselves, and another client can then ask any of the discovery servers for help connecting to hash XYZ
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